What is the concept of Mayhem?

[Ladle Ghoulash 44,972]

28 minutes ago, imogen2133 said:

Yeah this is what I was getting it no one can seem to agree on the concept and the ones I have seen are all based on personal interpretations instead of using the lyrics or Gaga's own words(outside of vague it is about chaos or struggle readings) and using the title Mayhem as a catch all term or an excuse for it not making sense. And most of the time people arguing things like "it doesn't need a concept to be good" when you ask for what it is is usually deflection or an excuse to not admit the album is bad or not the best quality.

If people don’t think the album needs an overarching concept to be good, that’s not making an excuse as much as it is a difference of preference. That being said, if you really wanted to, you could pretty easily poke sizable holes in the supposed concepts of almost every Gaga album in terms of whether the songs strictly adhere to those concepts (plenty of songs on BTW, AP, and even TFM have to be stretched pretty far to fit the album’s “concept”), which is part of the reason why I think MAYHEM is refreshing: no need to front load the album with a makeshift concept, just let the work speak for itself and conceptualize it through visuals and performances (which I think is more or less what she’s always done to an extent).

Edited April 1 by Ladle Ghoulash

[Ultimecia 6,545]

1 hour ago, Ladle Ghoulash said:

Idk how you could argue the album doesn’t have a POV, tbh. Whether or not you find the substance compelling is fair game, but there’s nothing about it that reads as vapid or hollow to me.

I think the music largely goes as deep as you’re willing to meet it. It’s not “profound” in an intellectual sense (and frankly, I don’t think Gaga has an album that is without leaning on external context to get there) but I’d argue it’s deep in a different way.

It’s vivid, fantastical, and extremely intentional on a sensory level. The album is sonically and emotionally immerse , the musical detail is layered, vivid, and specific, and the performances are fully committed and deeply impassioned.

That, to me, is substance largely without pretense.
 

As a broader point: IMO, Gaga’s work and what tends to make it intellectually profound is the way she situates it dramaturgically and expresses it symbolically more than the music itself as raw material. Even BTW (a song I deeply love) is mostly just a surface level self-empowerment anthem on paper that validates a laundry list of different identities (which is still worthwhile, but not exactly groundbreaking).

Through the video and live performances, however, it becomes something even more powerful: a statement about the collective power of self-acceptance, an expression of radical self-creation, self-determination, and autonomy, and a soulful rebellious statement against the rigidity of prejudicial systems. The deeper magic Gaga does in meaning making, imo, always takes place in performance and world-building in videos and on stage and I don’t think MAYHEM is any different in that way. 

Thank you for a thoughtful answer!

While lyrical substance is subjective, I hear what you're saying about the production being a form of substance in itself. And I can't dispute that MAYHEM's production is impeccable across all metrics.

I can recognize however that this form of substance doesn't stick much with me because of the stage of life I'm in. While I do not look down upon the genre at all, I do not listen to pop music much if at all. Thus pop songs really have to go the extra mile for me to get hooked.

Disease, Abracadabra and Perfect Celebrity achieve that for me, the remaining tracks do not.

The broader point you raised I fully agree with.

World building through outside means has always been Gaga's strength, and everything surrounding MAYHEM follows suit. But it hasn't made me appreciate the source material more, because I simply do not connect with it at all.

[HayThurJack 373]

Probably not accurate but I considered most (not all) of it to be a dichotomy of her singing to herself/about herself. The part that wants fame, the part that feels tortured by fame. I know we say Don’t Call Tonight is about Joe, but I think she’s singing to herself. Same can be said of Disease, Perfect Celebrity, How Bad Do U Want Me, etc. 

 

But also just dichotomies in general; ie. the beast, 

[gagzus 20,239]

15 hours ago, ANVEEROY said:

You are famous on X! (formally known as Twitter)

The way my impressions are 51k and not a single person has followed me 

[Ziggy 13,513]

It basically is about going back into yourself and owning the different parts of your art and life. So it's something of a sprawling palette of the GAGA sound and aesthetic while making some space for new sounds to emerge. coming back to you to create new! After her feeling lost the last decade or so, this makes some sense

[AliceAnesthesia 160]

11 hours ago, Ladle Ghoulash said:

I mean, I do think some of these songs go a bit deeper than they’re being given credit for, even if they also work on a surface level.

 

HBDUWM, for example, doesn’t really read to me as just a relationship song: it feels like it’s getting at whether people actually love her or just the version of her she performs (“do you love me for who I am or just the bad girl [Gaga] I play on stage?”).

 

The Beast is similar where, yeah, on its face it’s “partner with a dark side,” but it pretty easily maps onto her relationship with her own persona (Gaga being “The Beast” that comes out on stage).

 

DCT also feels internal to me, like she’s talking to herself (“in the mirror I get weak at the girl staring back at me, they’re your eyes”), which almost reads like a continuation of Fun Tonight in terms of that self-alienation.

 

Garden of Eden also fits into that lane: seduction into the darker self, loss of innocence, etc., which lines up with what she’s doing on Disease.

 

So I do think there’s at least a plausible meta read of MAYHEM where the throughline is her being at war with herself (which is basically what the show literalizes).

 

But at the same time, I don’t think every song is meant to fully “plug into” that. A lot of them pretty clearly function as standalone pop tracks first, and the conceptual layer is there if you want to engage with it, not something you have to resolve for the album to work.

These have always been my interpretations as well.

HBDUWM has always been to me about the pain of someone having a version of you in their mind and not accepting the real authentic you flaws and all. That girl in your head ain't real, how bad do you want me for real?

The Beast also I've always read as being about Stefani vs Gaga. When the clock strikes midnight, aka when the show starts or when she steps on stage, the transformation into the beast, the werewolf, the stage person Lady Gaga, it commences whether she wants to or not.

and Garden of Eden is pretty clearly about temptation and I've always taken it to be about the temptation to give in to your unhealthy habits, not caring about what's good for you and just wanting to feel good or have fun despite knowing it will lead down a dark road.

 

The concept of MAYHEM, to me, is pretty clearly about accepting all of yourself, including the parts you don't like or don't want to accept, and the inner struggle that comes with trying to reach that acceptance. Putting the fragmented pieces together, which is why so much of the album art is cut photographs pieced together and shattered glass. I think that idea is carried throughout the album as a whole, the name of the album and the artwork make perfect sense to me and fit with that idea. Honestly it's crazy to me that people don't understand what the concept of MAYHEM is lol. Not to mention as others have said, a pop album doesn't really need to have a thoroughly thought out deep concept. It's just great music about accepting yourself and the things that come with it.

[imogen2133 327]

21 hours ago, Ladle Ghoulash said:

I mean, I understand the premise/“plot” of the BTWB, but the world building shoots farther than a pop show can meaningfully achieve (who runs GOAT? What is their mission? Who was Gaga before this and why *exactly* are they trying to apprehend her? For what reason did they construct this cloning technology and what evil is Gaga rebelling against?). Not to mention a lot of segues, imo, are hamfisted and forced (basically every segue in the act that starts with BR and ends with Telephone is only really workable if you accept that the show is basically a pop drag style performance of a sci-fi B-movie).  

And again, I get what each part is trying to convey individually, but I think the BTWB fails to tie a lot of its ideas together. Like I get that Americano is about pro-immigrant activism and supporting marriage equality, but why is she officiating a wedding in the basement of a meat packing facility, getting thrown into a meat grinder, then coming back out on a couch made of meat with machine gun tits? You could retrofit the idea that she’s bucking conformity and gaming the system (à la the Bad Romance MV), but that all feels like a stretch to me and the setting feels incredibly far removed from the sci-fi premise. 
 

Also: why is she also playing Mother GOAT? If you tie it into the BTW MV and understand that Gaga is the “eternal mother” and Mother GOAT is “birthing evil” and they’re two sides of the same coin (and Gaga “needs that evil in order to do good,” which, I guess in the case is…creating the technology to birth a new race?) and that Gaga is conquering her evil side at the end it kind of works. But even at that: Gaga establishes that duality of evil/good, chaos/innocence, pain/healing much more clearly and effectively between EtherealGa and Mistress of MAYHEM and tells a story about that relationship that I think is more emotionally and psychologically nuanced.

I appreciate the scope and ambition of BTWB (it’s one of my favorite tours from her after all), but what I love about it is the bombast and absurdity of the contrast between this semi-structured “plot” and Gaga just flexing her pop camp theatrical muscle (I mean, if we’re in space at the beginning, why tf is the show set in a castle other than Gaga thought it looked great [and she was right])

A lot of Gaga’s previous shows have felt more or less like moodboards where plot was somewhat secondary, purposefully farcical, symbolic and indirect, or altogether absent, but I still maintain that MBT is probably the clearest story in the sense that the characters and their motivations are discernible, the story arch is clear in spite of leaning into surreal dream logic and campy fantasy, and the songs feel like they actually move the plot forward instead of being somewhat bent to fit a story (à la some parts of TMB and BTWB). 

Well I think it picks up after the BTW video with Mother G.O.AT being represented through the moving drone that floats above the stage. Gaga explained that the good(in both the video and the BTWB story) is represented as the people who open doors, provide opportunities and don't shut people out due to prejudice and hate and the good is the opposite of that. The castle is supposed to represent and be a fortress of strength and the revolution of love and was inspired by the castle Disneyland and it is supposed to be a darker version of that. So on G.O.A.T it is where Gaga and her dancers(the new race) gather to spread their message of love and acceptance. There's parts like FOHL/JD where she kills a guard and takes his gun and it shows the progression with her taking over. As for the "meat" section during Americano I think it shows that gay marriage is not accepted on G.O.A.T and that they have to hide their marriage (or something like that), but it is more so inspired by the magazine cover Gaga saw in the 70s when she was young of the woman in the meat grinder and she used it in the show as commentary on women and fame. Also I guess it being fantastical and over the top fits in with it being an alien planet and not earth. Some parts seem more so individually inspired and fit less so into the overall storyline(like the meat section) but I think it makes sense as a whole. 

[imogen2133 327]

21 hours ago, Ladle Ghoulash said:

Tbf, it’s an interpretive framework that Gaga hasn’t been particular shy about using (hence why the performance art of her being both Gaga is the art and the creator has been a part of the project from the beginning). As far as HBDUWM, Gaga comes out at the end of the show fully out of costume performing for her fans, deconstructing the persona, and asking the question, “How bad do you want me for real?” which I think lines up pretty squarely with that interpretation. As far as The Beast is concerned, Gaga also directly stated that that’s part of what the song is about in the Apple Music interview with Zane Lowe.

I guess it is just hard for me to view the album/interpret it as being about the split between "Stefani" and "Gaga" because I've never really understood that. I mean first early in her career she said there was no separation between the 2, then she said she created her Gaga self because of depression and trauma, then she said it was her in 2021 during HOG promo when asked about why she is credited in movies as Lady Gaga and not Stefani Germanotta in the credits. Now she said she accepts her "Gaga self", it makes her sound like she has multiple personalities or something it gets confusing. Also I think reading the songs on Mayhem that way is a stretch. 

Edited April 2 by imogen2133

[Ladle Ghoulash 44,972]

18 minutes ago, imogen2133 said:

I guess it is just hard for me to view the album/interpret it as being about the split between "Stefani" and "Gaga" because I've never really understood that. I mean first early in her career she said there was no separation between the 2, then she said she created her Gaga self because of depression and trauma, then she said it was her in 2021 during HOG promo when asked about why she is credited in movies as Lady Gaga and not Stefani Germanotta in the credits. Now she said she accepts her "Gaga self", it makes her sound like she has multiple personalities or something it gets confusing. Also I think reading the songs on Mayhem that way is a stretch. 

It’s not really a split or “multiple personalities” as much as they’re different contextual facets of who she is. I also never said that that was the “concept” of MAYHEM as much as I think it’s a plausible reading. 

[Ladle Ghoulash 44,972]

35 minutes ago, imogen2133 said:

Well I think it picks up after the BTW video with Mother G.O.AT being represented through the moving drone that floats above the stage. Gaga explained that the good(in both the video and the BTWB story) is represented as the people who open doors, provide opportunities and don't shut people out due to prejudice and hate and the good is the opposite of that. The castle is supposed to represent and be a fortress of strength and the revolution of love and was inspired by the castle Disneyland and it is supposed to be a darker version of that. So on G.O.A.T it is where Gaga and her dancers(the new race) gather to spread their message of love and acceptance. There's parts like FOHL/JD where she kills a guard and takes his gun and it shows the progression with her taking over. As for the "meat" section during Americano I think it shows that gay marriage is not accepted on G.O.A.T and that they have to hide their marriage (or something like that), but it is more so inspired by the magazine cover Gaga saw in the 70s when she was young of the woman in the meat grinder and she used it in the show as commentary on women and fame. Also I guess it being fantastical and over the top fits in with it being an alien planet and not earth. Some parts seem more so individually inspired and fit less so into the overall storyline(like the meat section) but I think it makes sense as a whole. 

Again, I understand the pieces individually, I just said that I don’t really think they conceptually adhere (which, for the record, doesn’t bother me because that’s not the standard I’m holding the show to) Tbh, I think you’re being selectively charitable in stretching what is legitimate vs. illegitimate conceptual coherence based on personal taste/preference. I respect that you don’t really care for MAYHEM or the MAYHEM Ball, but I honestly just don’t agree with your reasoning here at all.

Edited April 2 by Ladle Ghoulash

[imogen2133 327]

5 minutes ago, Ladle Ghoulash said:

Again, I understand the pieces individually, I just said that I don’t really think they conceptually adhere (which, for the record, doesn’t bother me because that’s not the standard I’m holding the show to) Tbh, I think you’re being selectively charitable in stretching what is legitimate vs. illegitimate conceptual coherence based on personal taste/preference. I respect that you don’t really care for MAYHEM or the MAYHEM Ball, but I honestly just don’t agree with your reasoning here at all.

Well I will admit my personal bias towards the BTWB over the Mayhem Ball and I concede that parts of the BTWB could be more fleshed out or more connected to the overall story. I do think that most of it is well thought out with connecting to the songs being performed though. Like Government Hooker and her being the alien(in that costume) and flirting with the G.O.A.T guard, the FOHL/JD segment and it exploring Gaga's love for fashion and taking you through her career up to that point which makes sense especially with JD(the first big song of her career), the Americano/PF section with the meat and how it ties back to the meaning and gay marriage and Scheise at the end being Gaga and the dancers (being the aliens she birthed to spread her message) being her victory moment for defeating Mother G.O.A.T. But again some parts could fit better or have more things to connect it to the storyline(the Lovegame/Telephone part for example) but I will say I still understand what she was going for overall. I guess many parts of The Mayhem ball just have vague darker imagery like the skull, the skeletons, the opera theme, the ending where she is operated on etc. and I don't see how it ties into the album overall or it's themes. I had a similar issue with her street fashion this era since it is mostly just black outfits without much thematic coherency. It might just be something we have to agree to disagree on since I'm still not getting it but I hope I do one day.

[imogen2133 327]

I would like to add that having a deeper understanding of the songs on an album and how they fit together on the album definitely helps me appreciate music more. An example is that I always loved Bloody Mary and thought it was a great song but after reading about the meaning and it being about Mary Magdalene and how she felt when Jesus was being hung on the cross it gave me a new perspective on the song and I found it more interesting, especially after reading through the lyrics and how it fit into that meaning.

[LateToCult 41,590]

It’s literally, “chile let me lock in and make a good record again”

[Alejandra 47]

It is supposed to just be chaotic. It has some themes but the concept is just a blender of things. I also think Michael had too much influence on this album. I don’t want to hear him in her music and I believe he played a heavy role in this one. 

[bxr 1,700]

Not sure if it’s just the proximity between creative projects, but I just watched Joker Folie for the first time earlier today and it felt like there were narrative parallels between Mayhem and the movie, from a sonic episodic POV I guess. Nothing definitive or fleshed out, just top line on the blink first impressions, fwiw. 

The My Shadow and Me opening scene, naturally called to mind Shadow of a Man, but from a foreshadowing / hindsight space, and that early in the movie I wasn’t considering the Mayhem album association, but by the end, when and how she effectually emerges from his shadow, brought Mayhem back to mind … so I guess the rough draft (not ovearching concept, but just song episodic parallels) kind of progressed like …

Disease … that they meet at the music class, music as the cure or way to mend their fractured identities ( … maybe? none of this is binding really)

Abracadabra … she, for lack of a better phrase, put him in a spell

Garden of Eden … their music fantasyworld as the paradise phantasm 

Perfect Celebrity … when Lee begins to come into her own subcultural iconography (again, broad strokes here, nothing specifically set in stone)

Vanish Into You … I’m not sure the actual timing on this scene, but VIY just brings to mind the scene where he’s in the holding cell and she inhales the cigarette smoke on his exhale … that felt like a changing of the guard

Killah, ZombieBoy, LoveDrug … not to oversimplify into one another but they all kind of echo the general prison psychosis atmosphere / setting / scenario

HBDUWM … really surfaced when Arthur abdicated Joker, and Lee navigated accordingly 

Don’t Call Tonight … when he literally called from jail after she left the courthouse

Shadow of a Man … the foreshadowing come to fruition, building from when she sort of moves through this glow up over the course of the movie, then at the bridge when she calls the finale what it is, and then on the Pogo’s soundstage when she’s full stop limelight dancing in (from) the origin shadow

The Beast … felt like a more literal allusion to a scene earlier in the movie; but by the end when the psychopath meets with Arthur, it was like the vengeance of Joker’s son, where the pregnancy was like Arthur’s; but this is more a nebulous association … 

Blade of Grass … 

DWAS … this just seems the most clearly associated from the top line POV

 

So, this is really neither here nor there, just rough draft song associations that came to mind on a first look … not that they were intentional, but felt somewhat related