Fox News poll: 54% support impeaching Trump

[REALITY 80,184]

1 minute ago, Lord Temptation said:

I hate polls too. They’re literally made up stories made by data analysts connecting dots to generate attention grabbing headlines.

I wouldn't necessarily go that far, but I certainly don't take them as gospel as many do. Polls change every week, and people's opinions on matters change every other week. Just because one poll says something today doesn't mean that tomorrow a completely new poll won't contradict it.

For me, the biggest issue is how a lot of people tend to take these polls. They don't look into who conducted the poll, who they conducted the poll on, where they conducted it, how they conducted it, etc. They just look at something and say, "Oh, 60% of the country  thinks 'x'?! That's crazy!", or whatever. Even with this poll, this isn't based on the country  as a whole, but FOX viewers. 

That said, I wouldn't say that it's "literally made up stories" because that's just factually incorrect. I just don't like how much validity we put on polls.

[Lord Temptation 11,209]

4 minutes ago, Gagaloo92 said:

Or it's the fact that people are more complex than you assume and don't go a certain way just based on their affiliation 

Having actual principles like believing it's wrong to ask a foreign leader to dig up dirt on your political rival even when it's someone on your side doing it is not impossible. 

In any case, CNN did their own poll yesterday which found a 5 percent drop in impeachment support, from 50 down to 45 percent 

People are indeed complex 

[HorusRa2 5,005]

12 minutes ago, Lord Temptation said:

This is impossible because just yesterday a CNN Poll showed that support for impeachment fell by 5 points from 50 down to 45 percent.

This is nonsense. 

Polls are a snapshot in time relative to the people polled. However, when you take the aggregate of polls, you can get a much greater assurance that the average is more indicative to reality. I'm just going to use the below as an example; it's from fivethirtyeight. 47.4 support vs 46.6 who do not support. That is an average of all polls including both whether the impeachment should be conducted as well as whether he should be impeached and removed from office. In the aggregate of polling, there is a majority who support the impeachment inquiry  (52 vs 42) and 47.3% of support removal from office compared to 46.7 who do not. This figure is for people only asked if he should be impeached and removed. 

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/impeachment-polls/

 

Either way you look at the issue support for impeachment isn't overwhelming and only contributes to the polarized nature of our country. 

[REALITY 80,184]

1 minute ago, Gagaloo92 said:

I agree with you on all counts. 

At some point it's not even so much as "leaning left" as it is just having deceny, respect and treating people, animals, and the earth with dignity and respect. 

It's sad that in our society having that means you have to be left leaning. 

Exactly. Perhaps I could've phrased that better.

The things I mentioned shouldn't be "left or right" issues. For example, supporting LGBTQ issues are considered left, liberal issues. But why? Why should treating a human being with love, respect, and dignity be considered a "left leaning" issue? Those things just don't make any sense to me. 

[Gagaloo911 12,959]

4 minutes ago, M Monstre said:

Exactly. Perhaps I could've phrased that better.

The things I mentioned shouldn't be "left or right" issues. For example, supporting LGBTQ issues are considered left, liberal issues. But why? Why should treating a human being with love, respect, and dignity be considered a "left leaning" issue? Those things just don't make any sense to me. 

I guess it's just a testament to the polarized nature of politics today where every issue becomes politicized and construed through a polarized lens. 

We miss out and lose all the nuance thinking that way. Not everything is black and white, in fact basically everything is gray and today people just don't care to understand enough about an issue to realize that. 

[Lord Temptation 11,209]

2 minutes ago, M Monstre said:

I wouldn't necessarily go that far, but I certainly don't take them as gospel as many do. Polls change every week, and people's opinions on matters change every other week. Just because one poll says something today doesn't mean that tomorrow a completely new poll won't contradict it.

For me, the biggest issue is how a lot of people tend to take these polls. They don't look into who conducted the poll, who they conducted the poll on, where they conducted it, how they conducted it, etc. They just look at something and say, "Oh, 60% of the country  thinks 'x'?! That's crazy!", or whatever. Even with this poll, this isn't based on the country  as a whole, but FOX viewers. 

That said, I wouldn't say that it's "literally made up stories" because that's just factually incorrect. I just don't like how much validity we put on polls.

Well I’m sorry but now you’re contradicting yourself. If you don’t like how much validity people put on polls, are you actually blaming people rather than the pollsters? The pollsters clearly are in the business of turning information into power; they literally manipulate data. It’s not the people’s fault for being manipulated. These data companies (similar to credit ratings agencies) don’t seem to be accountable to anyone. They take people’s data and then turn it into “facts” using equations most people don’t even understand (hence impossible to cross-verify).

8 minutes ago, HorusRa2 said:

This is nonsense. 

Polls are a snapshot in time relative to the people polled. However, when you take the aggregate of polls, you can get a much greater assurance that the average is more indicative to reality. I'm just going to use the below as an example; it's from fivethirtyeight. 47.4 support vs 46.6 who do not support. That is an average of all polls including both whether the impeachment should be conducted as well as whether he should be impeached and removed from office. In the aggregate of polling, there is a majority who support the impeachment inquiry  (52 vs 42) and 47.3% of support removal from office compared to 46.7 who do not. This figure is for people only asked if he should be impeached and removed. 

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/impeachment-polls/

 

Either way you look at the issue support for impeachment isn't overwhelming and only contributes to the polarized nature of our country. 

Are you saying the CNN Poll was nonsense? 

[HorusRa2 5,005]

Just now, Lord Temptation said:

Well I’m sorry but now you’re contradicting yourself. If you don’t like how much validity people put on polls, are you actually blaming people rather than the pollsters? The pollsters clearly are in the business of turning information into power; they literally manipulate data. It’s not the people’s fault for being manipulated. These data companies (similar to credit ratings agencies) don’t seem to be accountable to anyone. They take people’s data and then turn it into “facts” using equations most people don’t even understand (hence impossible to cross-verify).

Are you saying the CNN Poll was nonsense? 

I meant the word, "impossible," was nonsense. The CNN poll had support for impeachment at say 45%. The data I showed you that the aggregate is at say maybe 47% support impeachment. The CNN poll is much closer to the aggregate than the fox news poll from the OP. So what we are seeing is that impeachment isn't rolling out the way democrats really thought it would & the fact that it's this close shows that the political calculation they made to try impeaching him on ukraine is ultimately a failure. 

 

If they were to try to impeach him they could do so on many other instances, but they chose Ukraine. Ultimately, Trump also isn't the only president who technically has done impeachable offenses and they got off the hook. 

[Lord Temptation 11,209]

2 minutes ago, HorusRa2 said:

I meant the word, "impossible," was nonsense. The CNN poll had support for impeachment at say 45%. The data I showed you that the aggregate is at say maybe 47% support impeachment. The CNN poll is much closer to the aggregate than the fox news poll from the OP. So what we are seeing is that impeachment isn't rolling out the way democrats really thought it would & the fact that it's this close shows that the political calculation they made to try impeaching him on ukraine is ultimately a failure. 

 

If they were to try to impeach him they could do so on many other instances, but they chose Ukraine. Ultimately, Trump also isn't the only president who technically has done impeachable offenses and they got off the hook. 

Yes, I’m surprised George W Bush wasn’t impeached. And I knew that support for impeaching Trump would drop once the public hearings had started. When everything was behind closed doors most Democrats were supporting it but now that it’s all out in the open people are realising what a farce it is. 

This is just a tactic to avoid losing the next election. They really shot themselves in the foot. If (as you say) there are other reasons to impeach Trump, they should have went with those, because so far all these hearings have shown is very weak or even contrary evidence. Most Dems now want this whole impeachment circus to end.

[REALITY 80,184]

1 hour ago, Lord Temptation said:

Well I’m sorry but now you’re contradicting yourself. If you don’t like how much validity people put on polls, are you actually blaming people rather than the pollsters? The pollsters clearly are in the business of turning information into power; they literally manipulate data. It’s not the people’s fault for being manipulated. These data companies (similar to credit ratings agencies) don’t seem to be accountable to anyone. They take people’s data and then turn it into “facts” using equations most people don’t even understand (hence impossible to cross-verify).

Like many things, it's a combination of both. Yeah, there are people and businesses who put out polls for the sake of just manipulating people and the popular opinion, but you cannot just state that all  polls are like that. And before you start, yes, you didn't explicitly state "all", but that's implied by your response.

There are instances where polls are fabricated, but to be honest, a lot of the times, it's also on people to understand that you have to take polls with a grain of salt. People need to learn to look at sources, and they need to learn to take into account different factors that go into polling. I'm not saying that they should spend the entire day researching what goes into how companies and businesses poll people, but what I'm saying is that people should take it upon themselves to not take everything up on face value.

[JusKeepBreathin 19,311]

1 hour ago, Lord Temptation said:

I’m only looking at this from a statistics angle (i have a degree in it). Support for Trump within his party is at 95%. If we assume that most Fox supporters are Republicans (let’s say 95%), then the figure of 50% support for impeachment is mathematically impossible. 

Either Fox news is more balanced than people assume (and hence unbiased) or the poll itself had a biased sample.

Fox News poll doesn't mean they only call Fox News viewers. 

 

[vitoburrrito 653]

Why approve of impeachment but not removal? Isn’t the point of impeachment to get the sitting president removed? Can someone explain to me why someone would respond to a survey like this? 

[Bt1 5,213]

Well, then they must remember to also cast their vote, if it would not happen. Not only for the president, but also for Senate.

[uo111 5,283]

1 hour ago, Lord Temptation said:

I’m only looking at this from a statistics angle (i have a degree in it). Support for Trump within his party is at 95%. If we assume that most Fox supporters are Republicans (let’s say 95%), then the figure of 50% support for impeachment is mathematically impossible. 

Either Fox news is more balanced than people assume (and hence unbiased) or the poll itself had a biased sample.

How can you have a statistics degree and not understand basic statistics concepts like margin of error and random sampling? 

[Eido 3,681]

2 hours ago, DeIusional said:

I hate how divided the world is becoming, just shows the human race isn’t lasting another 200 years 

🤔 You do know that the world is not the USA, right? 

[Petie Estie 5,719]

2 hours ago, Gagaloo92 said:

50% of FOX VIEWERS support having Trump impeached AND removed from office, with an additional 4% supporting impeaching but not removing. From a Fox News poll 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/12/16/impeachment-reality-comes-fox-news-universe/%3foutputType=amp

Here's to those peddling this idea that impeachment is not popular and will be bad for Democrats 

this is not only a poll of fox news viewers. this is a poll of all americans done by fox news.