Whispering 18,865 Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 (edited) Thank you for your honest and well-thought out comment. I also appreciate the thought-provoking reply from No Angel. Thank you both for a taking the time to express your thoughts in such an open and honest manner. It goes to show that individuals, from two different perspectives, can try to understand and listen to each other. These are the types of conversations we should be having in the US. Edited August 19, 2014 by rarigoes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whispering 18,865 Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 http://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2014/08/19/chart-ferguson-white-flight/ Ferguson was 74% white in 1990, by 2010 it was down to 29%. That historical holdover is the main reason why the whites are the vast majority of the local police. They had 25 years to make a change. Meanwhile, why weren't the 25% represented 25 years ago and why didn't the percentage on the force adjust as its area demographic changed? It is possible to have a force that resembles the racial make up of the area it serves, as other racially diverse cities across the US have police forces that are racially mixed. Not only does this area have a problem supposedly finding black people who want a job in law enforcement, there also seems to be a lack of females who want to join the force. The percentage of female police officers is half the US average. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allison M 357 Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 They had 25 years to make a change. Meanwhile, why weren't the 25% represented 25 years ago and why didn't the percentage on the force adjust as its area demographic changed? It is possible to have a force that resembles the racial make up of the area it serves, as other racially diverse cities across the US have police forces that are racially mixed. Not only does this area have a problem supposedly finding black people who want a job in law enforcement, there also seems to be a lack of females who want to join the force. The percentage of female police officers is half the US average. There isn't a high turnover rate for police officers. They stay with their county until retirement. The white officers that were there 20 years ago are more than likely still there today unless they have retired. And i think Ferguson has had a very large demographic change in a relatively short amount of time, so their police force hasn't changed much. I don't see why this is relevant either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gov Hooka 8,008 Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 I have little to no respect for the manner in which the police force has handled ANYTHING about this. agreed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gov Hooka 8,008 Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 Race and racism is tricky. Like I said, I don't think of myself as "a racist", but, being white, I inherently have prejudiced thoughts and stereotypes against people of color drilled into my mindset as a default part of my identity as a white person. I don't hold conscious prejudices against any one group of people, and when I do notice intentional OR unconscious racist actions or beliefs in myself or others, I usually speak up and call it out. But, I still have lots of racist ideas about people of color, specifically black people, engrained into my default perspective as a white American simply because of the history of how people of color have been viewed and treated in this country. no, being a human, you inherently have prejudiced thoughts and stereotypes against people of any color... racism is in everyone and influences your opinions on a person of any color, fundamentally. then you can start arguing about who has it worse and blah blah but fundamentally it isn't one sided. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gov Hooka 8,008 Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 They had 25 years to make a change. Meanwhile, why weren't the 25% represented 25 years ago and why didn't the percentage on the force adjust as its area demographic changed? It is possible to have a force that resembles the racial make up of the area it serves, as other racially diverse cities across the US have police forces that are racially mixed. Not only does this area have a problem supposedly finding black people who want a job in law enforcement, there also seems to be a lack of females who want to join the force. The percentage of female police officers is half the US average. This I see as a problem though-the wording of the fact that "They" the police department had to make a change in their department to suit the racial demographic of the community. Why couldn't "They" refer to the Ferguson community as a whole, why can't more of the black community of Ferguson get involved in their own police force? I've seen posted before as well as written on many places how the people of Ferguson have a mistrust of their police and have issues relating with them. Like why are there only 3 black police officers and more importantly why did the community and the police department themselves let this happen? Like I genuinely want to know. The community should make a larger effort to get involved in their local law enforcement coming out of this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
VioletGaGa 1 Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 If you can't see through the propaganda in this I feel sorry for you. She used her status as a survivor of the holocaust because she knew it would draw attention. These people are making a mess out of an American city, illegally protesting. YOU CANNOT PROTEST IN THE MIDDLE OF A BUSY STREET! They want order restored in this city, you cannot interfere with the lives of an entire city to protest. Generally a permit is needed when a protest of this size occurs. You cannot protest in an area that puts anyone in danger, i.e. a street. People are trying to make a martyr of this kid and themselves and using the police to perpetuate their propaganda that this is a racist city. Turns out, half of the officers are black. Logic. I actually have a more structured opinion on this but I wish not to share it right now and let the dominos fall as they may...it's only a matter of time before everyone actually sees what the main issue is here, some have but most haven't... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whispering 18,865 Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 There isn't a high turnover rate for police officers. They stay with their county until retirement. The white officers that were there 20 years ago are more than likely still there today unless they have retired. And i think Ferguson has had a very large demographic change in a relatively short amount of time, so their police force hasn't changed much. I don't see why this is relevant either. There are young and old officers on every force in the US. Other racially integrated cities and counties have changed the demographics of their police force, as the demographics of their cities or counties have changed. The population of Ferguson has seen a gradual change since the 70s. They've had 30 to 40 years to modify slowly with the changing community. It is definitely suspicious that the force hasn't gradually adapted with the changing demographic of this county, as they have had several decades to do so. It's relevant, because the large majority of cities that are racially diverse also have a police force that, at least somewhat, represents its citizens. That can help with racial tensions, especially in areas that are this racially diverse. It can also help to build trust and unity in a community. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gov Hooka 8,008 Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 There are young and old officers on every force in the US. Other racially integrated cities and counties have changed the demographics of their police force, as the demographics of their cities or counties have changed. The population of Ferguson has seen a gradual change since the 70s. They've had 30 to 40 years to modify slowly with the changing community. It is definitely suspicious that the force hasn't gradually adapted with the changing demographic of this county, as they have had several decades to do so. It's relevant, because the large majority of cities that are racially diverse also have a police force that, at least somewhat, represents its citizens. That can help with racial tensions, especially in areas that are this racially diverse. It can also help to build trust and unity in a community. but again like I said before why does the police department need to change it. It's not like they are the ones who select police officers? shouldn't people from the community join the academy and eventually become a police officer??? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaqe 37 Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 From an european point of view I don't really get what's happening there I'm kinda confused as well but they're shouting about this everywhere in Polish media. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allison M 357 Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 There are young and old officers on every force in the US. Other racially integrated cities and counties have changed the demographics of their police force, as the demographics of their cities or counties have changed. The population of Ferguson has seen a gradual change since the 70s. They've had 30 to 40 years to modify slowly with the changing community. It is definitely suspicious that the force hasn't gradually adapted with the changing demographic of this county, as they have had several decades to do so. It's relevant, because the large majority of cities that are racially diverse also have a police force that, at least somewhat, represents its citizens. That can help with racial tensions, especially in areas that are this racially diverse. It can also help to build trust and unity in a community. I think you're looking too far into it. It's really not that suspicious. They probably don't have black officers trying to get involved. It's not like the community is more black based so they lay off some white officers to make room for black officers. That's not how this works. If the community wants more black officers for whatever reason, then black officers should get involved. I doubt Ferguson is like... turning officers down because they're black which is kind of what you're implying. but again like I said before why does the police department need to change it. It's not like they are the ones who select police officers? shouldn't people from the community join the academy and eventually become a police officer??? This. It's not up to the police department to get black officers on their field. It's up to black officers to apply. But i really don't think this accident was roped in racism like everyone is implying. I think it was just a confrontation gone wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
norcalmonster 0 Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 (edited) no, being a human, you inherently have prejudiced thoughts and stereotypes against people of any color... racism is in everyone and influences your opinions on a person of any color, fundamentally. then you can start arguing about who has it worse and blah blah but fundamentally it isn't one sided. Totally, we all have different prejudices based on different things: race, religion, political beliefs, class, etc. It's human nature. But I also think it's important to acknowledge the specific prejudices I (and all white people) have pushed onto us about black people, because of the specific history of white/black relations in America. But i really don't think this accident was roped in racism like everyone is implying. I think it was just a confrontation gone wrong. I personally don't believe Officer Wilson went to work that day thinking "I'm going to kill a black person today." It's not that blatant. However, had the exact same situation happened, but Mike Brown had been white, I'd bet big $$$$ he would not have been killed. It's much easier for most white folks to de-humanize a black stranger than a white stranger, so, while I'm sure Officer Wilson has his own level of trauma as a result of the shooting, had he seen a white person jaywalking, he probably wouldn't have even been so agressive to start off with in asking them to move, let alone find it necesarry to blindly shoot 6+ bullets at him when things got more intense. Edit: Things probably wouldn't have gotten more intense in the first place, because Officer Wilson probably would not have found it necesarry to escalate anything at all if Mike had been white. Edited August 19, 2014 by norcalmonster Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whispering 18,865 Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 (edited) but again like I said before why does the police department need to change it. It's not like they are the ones who select police officers? shouldn't people from the community join the academy and eventually become a police officer??? Because it is best if the police force somewhat reflects the community they serve. Other cities that are racially diverse seem to have no problem with this basic concept. For some reason, there is a problem with this particular force. Not just with racial diversity either, but also with gender diversity. Add that to the rather odd way this whole incident was handled from the start, and the way they approached and treated members of the press or how they jumped quickly to full on military gear, brought in police dogs, closed off airspace to news helicopters and shot rubber bullets into crowds...and many can't help but see a series of red flags. At the very best, we have a completely mishandled situation, that only served to make matters worse. Edited August 19, 2014 by rarigoes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MahoganySnitch 67 Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 Totally, we all have different prejudices based on different things: race, religion, political beliefs, class, etc. It's human nature. But I also think it's important to acknowledge the specific prejudices I (and all white people) have pushed onto us about black people, because of the specific history of white/black relations in America. I personally don't believe Officer Wilson went to work that day thinking "I'm going to kill a black person today." It's not that blatant. However, had the exact same situation happened, but Mike Brown had been white, I'd bet big $$$$ he would not have been killed. It's much easier for most white folks to de-humanize a black stranger than a white stranger, so, while I'm sure Officer Wilson has his own level of trauma as a result of the shooting, had he seen a white person jaywalking, he probably wouldn't have even been so agressive to start off with in asking them to move, let alone find it necesarry to blindly shoot 6+ bullets at him when things got more intense. Edit: Things probably wouldn't have gotten more intense in the first place, because Officer Wilson probably would not have found it necesarry to escalate anything at all if Mike had been white. I agree. The 6 bullets thing still astounds me, like :wtf: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gov Hooka 8,008 Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 Because it is best if the police force somewhat reflects the community they serve. Other cities that are racially diverse seem to have no problem with this basic concept. For some reason, there is a problem with this particular force. Not just with racial diversity either, but also with gender diversity. That's why it is suspicious. Add that to the rather odd way this whole incident was handled from the start, and the way they approached and treated members of the press or how they jumped quickly to full on military gear, brought in police dogs, closed off airspace to news helicopters and shot rubber bullets into crowds...and many can't help but see a series of red flags. i agree totally but what I am trying to say is that the problem doesn't only lie with the police force who can't force black officers into their department, but the problem also lies with a community that has done very little to get involved in their local police force. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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