Is AOC president material?

[Chromatica Island 8,517]

Too far left for me tbh

[Economy 52,951]

28 minutes ago, Aphasic said:

Well people in the USA are mortified of socialism (even though they are the biggest economy the USA also has the most disadvantagestist system for their own people). Why are people so afraid of the benefits of socialism?

Ppl are about to argue with u. Even tho i know what ur saying many ppl here are very protective of the word "socialism" being used correctly in its technical definition

[Economy 52,951]

1 minute ago, Monsterabriel said:

Too far left for me tbh

Yeah some of the tax thresholds ive heard from her & Bernie i feel go past the peak net benefit threshold especially with Corporate taxes which end up being payed for everyone more so than individuals taxes

[Chromatica Island 8,517]

Just now, Economy said:

Yeah some of the tax thresholds ive heard from her & Bernie i feel go past the peak net benefit threshold especially with Corporate taxes which end up being payed for everyone more so than individuals taxes

America is in bad debt rn

[Economy 52,951]

1 minute ago, Monsterabriel said:

America is in bad debt rn

Americas overall leverage and debt burden is really actually not that terrible compared to many Nations tbh

 

Although it is in a very unsustainabke path that further down the road will be near impossibke to fix. But as of right now its not at the screwed point of no return yet. Many Nations debts are higher

[pachinko 10,760]

20 minutes ago, Married the Night said:

No 

Explain yourself mortal. 

[Chromatica Island 8,517]

1 minute ago, Economy said:

Americas overall leverage abd debt burden is really actually not that terrible compared to many Nations tbh

Yeah I figured

[Economy 52,951]

11 minutes ago, Monsterabriel said:

Yeah I figured

My Country (Canada) is actually overall worse tbh than the US in the Nations overall leverage

 

At the Federal level the US is quite a bit worse yes because debt is over 100% of GDP whereas in Canada its a low just under 50% (we were like 33% before pandemic tho )

 

But the US is in pretty good shape when it comes to subsovereign finances cuz most US States are in pretty good shape. Here in Canada half of our Government debt is Provincial. In fact my Province Ontario has the highest sub-sovereign (not Federal) debt in the entire world.

 

Canadas overall Government debt nearly doubles when you add Provinces. This often goes ignored cuz it doesnt get headlines as much and makes Nation appear in better fiscal health than it actually is. But lower levels of Government also represent a portion of taxes and spending so its just as relevant to consider TOTAL Government debt not just Federal

 

Canada is WAY worse than the US with private and consumer debt (Canada consumer debt 178% of income vs still less than 120% in US) which is leverage in the economy. That too is a threat to financial system and also gets in the way of government being able to raise taxes without crashing economy if the private sector is near the brink

 

So for USA its only the Federal debt that is pretty bad right now and even by that measure alone theres Nations out there that have a much higher debt to GDP ratio including half of Europe

 

Ppl see the high total debt and it looks huge but consider that US economy is over $20 Trillion and other financial segments of the Nation are in good shape and you see the US financial situation isnt as god awful as many think even tho it could be a lot better still

[Aphasic 4,033]

22 minutes ago, Reputation King said:

Nah, she’s too far left for me and many other Americans 

Do you believe that every American should have healthcare and labor rights and the taxation should benefit the country as a whole not just a few?

Some facts to reflect on:

In 2007 Bezos paid 0$ in income tax and in 2011, Jeff Bezos not only paid $0 in federal income tax, but received a $4,000 tax credit for his children; Musk paid $0 in federal income tax in 2018; and billionaire investor George Soros did the same three years in a row.

Source: https://observer.com/2021/06/bezos-musk-billionaire-tax-evasion-irs-data/

[Economy 52,951]

6 minutes ago, Aphasic said:

Do you believe that every American should have healthcare and labor rights and the taxation should benefit the country as a whole not just a few?

Some facts to reflect on:

In 2007 Bezos paid any income tax in 2007 and in 2011, Jeff Bezos not only paid $0 in federal income tax, but received a $4,000 tax credit for his children; Musk paid $0 in federal income tax in 2018; and billionaire investor George Soros did the same three years in a row.

Source: https://observer.com/2021/06/bezos-musk-billionaire-tax-evasion-irs-data/

I agree with u here but agreeing the tax system is unfair and that everyone should get free healthcare doesnt mean i agree with thresholds as high as Bernie and AOC have proposed either

 

U kinda sound like ur implying that if we think AOC is too far left that we automatically have to approve of the status quo. But theres such a huge range to fall into of the ststus quo vs an AOC and things as they are now

 

We need to go further left. I just think she is too much

 

Corporate taxes in particular id be careful with. Im more comfortable with big hikes on the wealthy individuals themselves but high Corporate taxes everyone ends uo paying for it, its not really a tax on the wealthy specifically and i dont think most people understand that

 

Bidens plan of 28% and removal of some loopholes sounds great... 35% to me starts to get a little high especially if u factor in theres State taxes to add to that so in reality would be well over 40% in most States

[Chromatica Island 8,517]

Just now, Economy said:

I agree with u here but agreeing the tax system is unfair and that everyone should get free healthcare doesnt mean i agree with thresholds as high as Bernie and AOC have proposed either

 

U kinda sound like if we think AOC is too far left that we automatically have to approve of the status quo

 

Like no, we need to go further left. I just think she is too much

Exactly

[Franch Toast 27,746]

Considering that Trump was presidential material, of course she is. Whether she'd win is another matter, but of course she's cut out for the job. 

 

[Economy 52,951]

17 minutes ago, Monsterabriel said:

Exactly

I have no issue with ppl supporting AOC cuz everyone is entitled to their opinion and to be fair i give her credit on her determination and strength of character and integrity

 

But i dont like when ppl suggest that just because i dont support Bernie or AOC that it means i must support the current system or that i favour corporists or something... like u dont necessairily have to support one end of the spectrum or the other, theres a lot in between. Like im complaining of the heat wave at work cuz i dont like heat it doesnt mean I want a winter blizzard snowstorm either 

 

The way i view it most policies (including taxes) have a point where the pros vs cons reach a maximum net benefit. Like a parabola not going far enough u dont hit the peak but going past it, the net positive effect starts to drop... 

 

Furthermore as circumstances change and evovle i believe the goldilocks amount for taxes abd regulation with the maximal net benefit may also change over time and isnt a set in stone amount and its tough to determine exactly what the perfect income tax rates, Corporate tax rates, Capital gains tax rates etc with the max net benefit are... further more how well the Government uses tax funds would also factor in the benefit vs cost to economy of any given amount

 

While i couldnt possibly come up with a precise number. Im quite sure the current rates for the rich are too low, but that Bernies and AOCs surpass that peak of net benefit and are too high

[Jill 31,812]

1 hour ago, Aphasic said:

Well people in the USA are mortified of socialism (even though they are the biggest economy the USA also has the most disadvantagestist system for their own people). Why are people so afraid of the benefits of socialism?

AOC isn't even socialist in the strongest sense of the word. She believes (at least publicly) on a welfare state, not a socialist one, at least for now. So that gradual philosophy that would lead to a fairer country may be the recipe that will make her attractive to several disenfranchised voters and ultimately hand her a possible win. But it's all speculation now. I hope she avoids the presidency like the plague during the near future. She can do much more in the lower ranks now.

[Aphasic 4,033]

2 minutes ago, Economy said:

I have no issue with ppl supporting AOC cuz everyone is entitled to their opinion and to be fair i give her credit on her determination and strength of character and integrity

 

But i dont like when ppl suggest that just because i dont support Bernie or AOC that it means i must support the current system or that i favour corporists or something... like u dont necessairily have to support one end of the spectrum or the other, theres a lot in between. Like im complaining of the heat wave at work cuz i dont like heat it doesnt mean I want a winter blizzard snowstorm either 

 

The way i view it most policies (including taxes) have a point where the pros vs cons reach a maximum net benefit. Like a parabola not going far enough u dont hit the peak but going past it, the net positive effect starts to drop... 

 

Furthermore as circumstances change and evovle i believe the goldilocks with the maximal bet benefit may also change over time and isnt a set in stone amount and its tough to determine exactly what the perfect income tax rates, Corporate tax rates, Capital gains tax rates etc with the max net benefit are

 

While i couldnt possibly come up with a precise number. Im quite sure the current rates for the rich are too low, but that Bernies and AOCs surpass that peak of net benefit and are too high

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexledsom/2020/10/09/frances-rich-get-much-richer-after-abolition-of-wealth-tax/

France’s Rich Get Much Richer After Abolition Of Wealth Tax.