REALITY 80,184 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 1 hour ago, Faysalaaa said: Well there is no clear evidence, just like there is no clear evidence about Biden and his son, but we all know its true. Impeachment should be done based on a serious crime with clear evidence. Is it legal to withhold witnesses? if yes then Americans should be against that and ask for information, but impeaching based on the ukraine phone call is not enough for me. I support impeachment based on other things he has done, not this though. Again, but what more evidence do you need? Trump asked a foreign power to interfere and gain information on a political rival. Trump’s even said that himself. There is literally nothing clearer than that. 𝔗𝔥𝔢 𝔪𝔬𝔫𝔰𝔱𝔢𝔯 𝔱𝔬𝔯𝔢 𝔞𝔴𝔞𝔶 𝔦𝔱𝔰 𝔪𝔞𝔰𝔨 𝔞𝔫𝔡...𝔦𝔱𝔰 𝔣𝔞𝔠𝔢 𝔴𝔞𝔰 𝔪𝔦𝔫𝔢. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KleinGa 18,177 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 1 hour ago, Faysalaaa said: Well there is no clear evidence, just like there is no clear evidence about Biden and his son, but we all know its true. Impeachment should be done based on a serious crime with clear evidence. Is it legal to withhold witnesses? if yes then Americans should be against that and ask for information, but impeaching based on the ukraine phone call is not enough for me. I support impeachment based on other things he has done, not this though. No clear evidence? Its in a transcript released, he admitted to it, the white house chief of staff admitted to it saying “its totally normal and we should get over it”. How is that not clear evidence? The republican propaganda machine and rhetoric really worked to the extent that it has people believing there was no evidence. If anything, there was OVERWHELMING evidence Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy 14,143 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 1 hour ago, Faysalaaa said: No there is no clear evidence of obstruction, and you cant prove intentions. But why impeach him on these things when we have 100% clear evidence of him breaking the law? like taking money from foreign governments and the yemen war? these are not debatable things and have nothing to do with intentions, and they are much more serious. Please please explain how deliberately telling your employees to not cooperate with an investigation isn’t obstruction? Like, that’s one of the textbook definitions of it lol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 9 minutes ago, M Monstre said: Again, but what more evidence do you need? Trump asked a foreign power to interfere and gain information on a political rival. Trump’s even said that himself. There is literally nothing clearer than that. 25 minutes ago, Gagaloo92 said: I get what you're saying here and agree with you. But asking for a foreign government to dig up dirt on your political rival is literally against ACTUAL US laws and flies in the face of the US Constitution. Which means it's impeachable. And Trump himself admitted to it on national television, not to mention his White House released a transcript confirming that it happened. It doesn't get any clearer than that so not sure what you're smoking 15 minutes ago, KleinGa said: No clear evidence? Its in a transcript released, he admitted to it, the white house chief of staff admitted to it saying “its totally normal and we should get over it”. How is that not clear evidence? The republican propaganda machine and rhetoric really worked to the extent that it has people believing there was no evidence. If anything, there was OVERWHELMING evidence Pretty much any action could be an impeachable offense if the house agree to vote on it. To be impeachable, an offense does not need to break the law. There only needs to be the political will. That is, there only needs to be enough votes in the House to impeach. If Trump broke the law, he would be in jail without a congress vote. Trump has made actions that Democrats view as worthy of impeachment, while Republicans dont, and none of them are wrong. Its a matter of personal opinion weather he should be impeached or not. So Trump Ukraine phone call is not illegal, what would be considered breaking the law is if Trump used his power and money to pressure a foreign leader to give him information which is not proven. Ukraine president only knew about the military withdrawal a month after the fact. Why go through all this mess when we already have proof Trump broke the law, yet they want to impeach him on things that is not proven or did not break the law. Its almost like they want him to win! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilmonzter 2,864 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 I think what she did was wrong, it was an easy yes I think this is just a play to get into fox news, She's retiring from politics and needs a new gig Sing C'est la vie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
REALITY 80,184 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 10 minutes ago, Faysalaaa said: Pretty much any action could be an impeachable offense if the house agree to vote on it. To be impeachable, an offense does not need to break the law. There only needs to be the political will. That is, there only needs to be enough votes in the House to impeach. If Trump broke the law, he would be in jail without a congress vote. Trump has made actions that Democrats view as worthy of impeachment, while Republicans dont, and none of them are wrong. Its a matter of personal opinion weather he should be impeached or not. So Trump Ukraine phone call is not illegal, what would be considered breaking the law is if Trump used his power and money to pressure a foreign leader to give him information which is not proven. Ukraine president only knew about the military withdrawal a month after the fact. Why go through all this mess when we already have proof Trump broke the law, yet they want to impeach him on things that is not proven or did not break the law. Its almost like they want him to win! How is that not proven? Trump and his White House staff have said before that he did it. The transcripts are out there. It is very clear that he tried to pressure a foreign leader into giving him information about Joe Biden. The House voted not to impeach him on anything else because while it was basically an open secret that Trump used Russia to interfere with the 2016 elections, it isn't as blatantly obvious as this (though in my opinion, it was). At this point, I kind of find this whole thing ironic. Like, we teach children in elementary school what it means to critically think and have reading comprehension skills, but it's like all of that goes out the window when it comes to this situation. The transcripts are out there! Trump tried to pressure the president of Ukraine to get dirt on Biden in exchange for military aid and money that was already passed by Congress! Once again, this is a very open-and-shut case. 𝔗𝔥𝔢 𝔪𝔬𝔫𝔰𝔱𝔢𝔯 𝔱𝔬𝔯𝔢 𝔞𝔴𝔞𝔶 𝔦𝔱𝔰 𝔪𝔞𝔰𝔨 𝔞𝔫𝔡...𝔦𝔱𝔰 𝔣𝔞𝔠𝔢 𝔴𝔞𝔰 𝔪𝔦𝔫𝔢. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartySick 173,214 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 She hopes to win the Democratic primary by not voting to impeach Trump Bye Whimsical bitch Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HorusRa2 5,005 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 Tulsi's vote here was the best move for her and it was also the correct way to vote on the articles of impeachment that was actually used to impeach. As some centrist folk on GGD have told me, impeachment is largely a 'political' use of power. In other words, the charges levied against him are largely political and partisan and not more concrete in terms of actual high crimes like illegal wars. The republicans are going to say that this was a political move by democrats that they have been trying to do since day 1 and it's going to excite the republican base to turnout. So now we have to fight even harder in order to flip the senate and to win the presidency. An election that should have been very doable to win has now become a toss-up at best regardless of democratic nominee because of the failure of the democratic party and speaker Pelosi. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 1 minute ago, M Monstre said: How is that not proven? Trump and his White House staff have said before that he did it. The transcripts are out there. It is very clear that he tried to pressure a foreign leader into giving him information about Joe Biden. The House voted not to impeach him on anything else because while it was basically an open secret that Trump used Russia to interfere with the 2016 elections, it isn't as blatantly obvious as this (though in my opinion, it was). At this point, I kind of find this thing ironic. Like, we teach children in elementary school what it means to critically think and have reading comprehension skills, but it's like all of that goes out the window when it comes to this situation. The transcripts are out there! Trump tried to pressure the president of Ukraine to get dirt on Biden in exchange for military aid and money that was already passed by Congress! Once again, this is a very open-and-shut case. Yes its proven that he talked to Ukraine president about Biden, that is not illegal. Yes its impeachable because anything could be impeachable if enough people vote on it. So no he did not break the law based on the information we have today. To prove breaking the law, Trump would have to use money and power to pressure a foreign government, or if a foreign government offered Trump money to intervene in the election. And when I say they could impeach him on important thing, I dont mean Russiagate, that is a conspiracy theory that is even worse than the Ukraine phone call. But they could impeach him on factual clear evidence that is not vague or debatable like getting personal money from foreign government, and the war in Yemen. If they impeach him on this, he would easily be removed from office, or atleast set a precedent against illegal wars and getting foreign money. Why they dont want to impeach Trump on any of this? well because Democrats do the same thing and if they impeach him on something like war or foreign aid, Democrats would also look guilty, they will risk being impeached in the future, and they would be threatening the military industrial complex who they work for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HorusRa2 5,005 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 9 minutes ago, Faysalaaa said: Yes its proven that he talked to Ukraine president about Biden, that is not illegal. Yes its impeachable because anything could be impeachable if enough people vote on it. So no he did not break the law based on the information we have today. To prove breaking the law, Trump would have to use money and power to pressure a foreign government, or if a foreign government offered Trump money to intervene in the election. And when I say they could impeach him on important thing, I dont mean Russiagate, that is a conspiracy theory that is even worse than the Ukraine phone call. But they could impeach him on factual clear evidence that is not vague or debatable like getting personal money from foreign government, and the war in Yemen. If they impeach him on this, he would easily be removed from office, or atleast set a precedent against illegal wars and getting foreign money. Why they dont want to impeach Trump on any of this? well because Democrats do the same thing and if they impeach him on something like war or foreign aid, Democrats would also look guilty, they will risk being impeached in the future, and they would be threatening the military industrial complex who they work for. Exactly. The reason they don't want to impeach based off of Yemen is because both parties are complicit with the war machine. The American people are by and large anti-inverventionist. The public pressure for republicans to impeach would be overwhelming if it were impeachment through the war from Yemen. Republicans would have had to take a stand in this scenario. In our current scenario, all republicans have to do is say, "democrats bad," and they can get off the hook for not impeaching orange boogey-man. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 1 minute ago, HorusRa2 said: Exactly. The reason they don't want to impeach based off of Yemen is because both parties are complicit with the war machine. The American people are by and large anti-inverventionist. The public pressure for republicans to impeach would be overwhelming if it were impeachment through the war from Yemen. Republicans would have had to take a stand in this scenario. In our current scenario, all republicans have to do is say, "democrats bad," and they can get off the hook for not impeaching orange boogey-man. Yes, which is why no president has been impeached based on war. Even Pelosi refused to impeach Bush regardless of extreme pressure to do so. It was later exposed that she was informed of Bush illegal torture and kept it a secret, so impeaching Bush would make her a criminal too! The people investigating Trump are the people the American people should investigate instead of playing into their circus show and games. Everyone knows how corrupted these people are but they dont care because "anything but Trump". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 @M Monstre Also, do you think if they actually believed Trump is working for Russia they would give him 130 billion dollars for war? ofcourse not, this is all a lie. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
REALITY 80,184 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 1 hour ago, Faysalaaa said: Yes its proven that he talked to Ukraine president about Biden, that is not illegal. Yes its impeachable because anything could be impeachable if enough people vote on it. So no he did not break the law based on the information we have today. To prove breaking the law, Trump would have to use money and power to pressure a foreign government, or if a foreign government offered Trump money to intervene in the election. And when I say they could impeach him on important thing, I dont mean Russiagate, that is a conspiracy theory that is even worse than the Ukraine phone call. But they could impeach him on factual clear evidence that is not vague or debatable like getting personal money from foreign government, and the war in Yemen. If they impeach him on this, he would easily be removed from office, or atleast set a precedent against illegal wars and getting foreign money. Why they dont want to impeach Trump on any of this? well because Democrats do the same thing and if they impeach him on something like war or foreign aid, Democrats would also look guilty, they will risk being impeached in the future, and they would be threatening the military industrial complex who they work for. Well, he wouldn't be "easily removed from office" anyway because no matter what he does, Mitch McConnell will not allow the Senate to remove him. Trump could literally break every law but the Republicans are so infatuated with him that none of it matters because at this point, all they care about is keeping their position of power. And yeah, the Democrats didn't decide to impeach him on any of those other things because they thought they might look like hypocrites if they decided to do the same, but I'm not looking at this as a partisan issue. While I very much allign myself with Democratic values, I also look at this stuff objectively. Had this been a Democratic president, I would've said the same exact thing. Once again, please explain to me what is not clear about this: "To prove breaking the law, Trump would have to use money and power to pressure a foreign government, or if a foreign government offered Trump money to intervene in the election." Trump did use money and power to try and pressure a foreign government. He did. Those are the facts. You say that it's proven that he talked to Ukraine about Biden, yes, but why are you not understanding this part of the issue? 𝔗𝔥𝔢 𝔪𝔬𝔫𝔰𝔱𝔢𝔯 𝔱𝔬𝔯𝔢 𝔞𝔴𝔞𝔶 𝔦𝔱𝔰 𝔪𝔞𝔰𝔨 𝔞𝔫𝔡...𝔦𝔱𝔰 𝔣𝔞𝔠𝔢 𝔴𝔞𝔰 𝔪𝔦𝔫𝔢. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, M Monstre said: Well, he wouldn't be "easily removed from office" anyway because no matter what he does, Mitch McConnell will not allow the Senate to remove him. Trump could literally break every law but the Republicans are so infatuated with him that none of it matters because at this point, all they care about is keeping their position of power. And yeah, the Democrats didn't decide to impeach him on any of those other things because they thought they might look like hypocrites if they decided to do the same, but I'm not looking at this as a partisan issue. While I very much allign myself with Democratic values, I also look at this stuff objectively. Had this been a Democratic president, I would've said the same exact thing. Once again, please explain to me what is not clear about this: "To prove breaking the law, Trump would have to use money and power to pressure a foreign government, or if a foreign government offered Trump money to intervene in the election." Trump did use money and power to try and pressure a foreign government. He did. Those are the facts. You say that it's proven that he talked to Ukraine about Biden, yes, but why are you not understanding this part of the issue? I would like to see evidence that he used money and power to pressure Ukraine president. We all know Trump wont be removed, but impeaching him on important issues is important like I explained above. Impeaching him on things like Ukraine does nothing to help the American people. This is all a distraction because Democrats have nothing to offer other than we are not Trump, so they use fear to get votes. But the truth is, they are like Trump. Supporting their plan and playing into their manipulative games will only keep the same system that got Americans Trump forever. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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