Pelosi: Bush illegal war is not Impeachable

[Bt1 5,213]

6 minutes ago, Faysalaaa said:

If she is right about Bush, then why is she impeaching Trump?
  

Probably it has to do with repetitive bad behaviour. She resist it for months. 

[ItsTommyBitch 12,640]

The obvious answer is that Bush should have been impeached, the same way it is right to impeach Trump.

That Nancy is basing it on popularity and political framing is really her misunderstanding the point of impeachment as being a tool when its necessary, and is reprehensible.

That being said, I believe those who have handled the impeachment in the house committees have done pretty much the best job they could do in making it clear that what Trump has done is impeachable and IMO qualifies for a removal of office (thats a bit more subjective, since we've got no precedent I'll elaborate below)  and I don't see their work as being impeded by Nancy's thought process on pursuing the impeachment thankfully. Like, it doesnt come across to me as *highly partisan* in its actual method of operation, just in its support, which is to be expected given the makeup of the Dems/Reps.

My reasoning for supporting removal is mostly about Trump's character regarding his numerous instances of misconduct, not just about the particulars of this incident. We have every reason to believe that Trump consistently does not put the needs of the country above his own personal and political ones in most of his official actions and unofficial ones as president, even being willing to jeopardize national security and our relationships with allies (and their security) in the process. So, hes dangerous. And I totally believe Trump would do this EXACT same thing again - the Ukraine scandal is just Russia/Mueller 2.0. So, he's a repeat offender that has no remorse. He won't apologize or acknowledge anything, he lies and obfuscates and misdirects - he obstructs by definition. He is to me clearly the kind of leader who would run 3 times if he could, and who would not want to step down if he lost and as an individual hes incredibly narcissistic and blindly egotistical and arguably sociopathic in terms of his lack of regard for other people's wellbeings, feelings, etc. He truly  just cares about himself. He's cartoonishly self-centered.

 

[Bt1 5,213]

2 minutes ago, HorusRa2 said:

How can you look at the data and see she is correct? 

The fact is that even if the house impeaches Trump, he will not be removed from Office. Trump will say this is an exoneration and use it as a rally cry to defeat the Do Nothing Democrats in the general election. His approval numbers continue to go up, general election matches between him and every candidate is getting closer and closer and support for impeachment is starting to decline. If Pelosi had chosen to impeach over something with actual substance, she could use public opinion as a rallying cry against the Senate; however, the public is starting to feel closer and closer to Trump's view on impeachment because of what she chose to impeach him on. 

I don't think anyone is really saying he shouldn't be impeached; rather, the critique is on the nature of impeachment and what is being done to impeach. 

Lol. U have here transcript discussions and a clear involvement of the president and people think that anything before had better substance? 

I guess people dont understand the laws. U need to prove the direct involvement of the president or you have nothing and u also need to convince the public about it, like you say. So this substance talk is probably from people who screamed impeachment 24/7 and now, when the results are starting to come in, they try to blame it on others. 

[Nino 12]

2 hours ago, Faysalaaa said:

Sorry I apologize, you said that my games dont work on educated adults, so I took that as you saying im not one. Lets not take things personal and talk about the topic itself. But we are repeating the same arguments so lets end it here.

Just to make things more clear, I did not say Pelosi is wrong about impeaching Trump though, if you read my comment, I said a couple of times that im for the impeachment of Trump. But im questioning her integrity as a politician and calling her out for being a hypocrite.

To be clear, false equivalencies are a rhetorical tactic that works on people who are immature or uneducated, and it's something that Trump has hidden behind since his initial campaign. I wasn't calling you a child, I was saying that it's a trick that usually works only on children.

Regardless of motivations Trump is as corrupt as any career politician I've ever heard of in the United States, and deserves to be removed from office in hopes of having somebody who could better serve the public interest, I have doubts that we'd be in a much better position after impeachment, but it's best to uphold the spirit of democracy. Casting doubt on Pelosi's motivations only serves to delegitimize impeachment proceedings, which are legally warranted, regardless of partisan gesturing.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Nino said:

To be clear, false equivalencies are a rhetorical tactic that works on people who are immature or uneducated, and it's something that Trump has hidden behind since his initial campaign. I wasn't calling you a child, I was saying that it's a trick that usually works only on children.

Regardless of motivations Trump is as corrupt as any career politician I've ever heard of in the United States, and deserves to be removed from office in hopes of having somebody who could better serve the public interest, I have doubts that we'd be in a much better position after impeachment, but it's best to uphold the spirit of democracy. Casting doubt on Pelosi's motivations only serves to delegitimize impeachment proceedings, which are legally warranted, regardless of partisan gesturing.

I agree with everything you said but the last part. Criticizing Pelosi is very important. Trump is just a distraction, its not just about impeaching Trump, its about exposing the whole system that both Trump and Pelosi work for. I dont believe in political loyalty and partisan politics and I dont belong to the Democratic party.

What you said is the same argument Trump supporters use when Trump does a bad thing.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, HorusRa2 said:

How can you look at the data and see she is correct? 

The fact is that even if the house impeaches Trump, he will not be removed from Office. Trump will say this is an exoneration and use it as a rally cry to defeat the Do Nothing Democrats in the general election. His approval numbers continue to go up, general election matches between him and every candidate is getting closer and closer and support for impeachment is starting to decline. If Pelosi had chosen to impeach over something with actual substance, she could use public opinion as a rallying cry against the Senate; however, the public is starting to feel closer and closer to Trump's view on impeachment because of what she chose to impeach him on. 

I don't think anyone is really saying he shouldn't be impeached; rather, the critique is on the nature of impeachment and what is being done to impeach. 

Exactly, there is a list of things they could impeach Trump on that is not arguable and vague. But they dont want to impeach him on something like war or taking money from foreign governments because they do the same thing

[Guest]

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[Guest]

4 hours ago, Florin said:

Probably it has to do with repetitive bad behaviour. She resist it for months. 

[Ziggy 14,312]

Just sounds to me like she’s hyper tentative to jump to impeachment which is understandable even if I find it very unfitting for someone in her position. However, I appreciate what she said about Clinton being impeached and how it might look if Bush Jr was as well. It could look tit for tat; it’s a tricky field to play.

Basically, I have my opinion sitting here not doing her job but without being there it’s hard to say how things would pan out. The process is really muddied by how vague impeachment is outlined in the Constitution. “High crimes and misdemeanors” is a very broad term to apply so I can understand where she’s tentative to move on impeachment even if, again, I hold a differing opinion from my chair lol

[Nino 12]

3 hours ago, Faysalaaa said:

I agree with everything you said but the last part. Criticizing Pelosi is very important. Trump is just a distraction, its not just about impeaching Trump, its about exposing the whole system that both Trump and Pelosi work for. I dont believe in political loyalty and partisan politics and I dont belong to the Democratic party.

What you said is the same argument Trump supporters use when Trump does a bad thing.

I'm just glad that the path of career politicians is aligning with the American public's interest for once in getting him tf out  

[Whispering 18,865]

11 hours ago, HorusRa2 said:

So, you're confirming my original comment that Pelosi chose not to go for impeachment for Bush because of political calculation and now chosen to go forward with impeachment with Trump for the same. The decision is not based on principle. Because it is not based on principle and this isn't something that has a huge precedent (and the precedent we have is only Nixon and Clinton), I'm sure you would agree that impeachment is largely a contest of smoke and mirrors among the two political parties.

Impeachment should really be used as a form of checks and balances(in my view) and should really be based on principle here. So, based off of that, I would actually argue that Nancy, as speaker of the house, isn't really doing her job. Bush should have been impeached regardless of whether there was support for it because what he did was illegal. What Trump has done consistently is also illegal. He should also be impeached. But what you, myself and the rest of the country are getting to see in real time is that accountability and rule of law does not really apply to the executive branch of government. It's very troubling and shows further proof that this country doesn't resemble a democracy so much as it resembles oligarchy. 

I’m saying if you don’t have support, you can’t go forward. The votes have to be there. No, I would not agree with that statement, because that’s not what happened back in 1974.

All the information wasn’t out at the time. Also, a party brings forth articles of impeachment. If the votes aren’t there, then there is no articles of impeachment. Nancy is not Queen, or the President. She is the head of the house, but she doesn’t make a decision and that’s it. She has to have the votes. 

[MJHolland 12,725]

This is noise. This subject has nothing to do with Trump. We live in 2019, and Donald Trump should absolutely f*cking surely be impeached. 
 

I don’t care if Pelosi bathes in blood at night. It’s irrelevant. This thread and topic are irrelevant. Trump should be impeached TOMORROW. 

[MJHolland 12,725]

I urge all the same people here to not engage with these games. They’re a distraction. Trump is a clear and present damaged to our society and rule of law. He must go, and our system of checks and balances HAS to work. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, MJHolland said:

This is noise. This subject has nothing to do with Trump. We live in 2019, and Donald Trump should absolutely f*cking surely be impeached. 
 

I don’t care if Pelosi bathes in blood at night. It’s irrelevant. This thread and topic are irrelevant. Trump should be impeached TOMORROW. 

I seriously dont even know what you are trying to say to respond to you! are you saying if a topic is not about attacking Trump, then its irrelevant? 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Nino said:

I'm just glad that the path of career politicians is aligning with the American public's interest for once in getting him tf out  

The American public interest is not Trump out of white house, Trump is in the white house because Democrats and Republicans refuse to give the American people what they want. Only privileged people make impeaching Trump their priority because he makes them feel icky. People who are struggling want solutions, not anything but Trump.