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Free Medications Proposal Under Review By Canadian Government

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Economy

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/canada-should-create-single-payer-pharmacare-plan-expert-panel-says-1.1272202

 

The Government of Canada is reviewing a proposal that would create a program to cover all "essential drugs" by 2022 and "all drugs" by 2027 under a single tax payer system

 

At the moment Pharma-care is mainly payed out of pocket or by insurance Although some Provinces cover young children, seniors or people on social assistance

 

Canada's "Universal" Healthcare system has often been criticized for still having many services privatized including dental care, vision care, chiropractors, some types of specialists, certain surgeries and yes medications 

 

This would be one step closer to a truly universal healthcare system

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Economy

My brother has Multiple Sclerosis and the meds are like $5000 a month. His work insurance covers 80% so the difference is still $1000 which he can't afford :/

 

While he doesn't wanna be on meds yet anyway cuz his symptoms are still mild and the side effects would be worse than the help atm...

 

But if later he decides he thinks it's worth the side effects, this would be a great help!

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homomo

A great leap forward if this is the case. I truly miss free doctors visits back home. I had a check-up at a clinic here today and it costed me €50. Like I'm used to free appts in Canada :saladga: 

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Economy
23 minutes ago, Interstellar said:

A great leap forward if this is the case. I truly miss free doctors visits back home. I had a check-up at a clinic here today and it costed me €50. Like I'm used to free appts in Canada :saladga: 

It would be. But this is merely a review of a major proposal... This may or may not happen 

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AlexanderMagno
1 hour ago, Economy said:

My brother has Multiple Sclerosis and the meds are like $5000 a month. His work insurance covers 80% so the difference is still $1000 which he can't afford :/

 

While he doesn't wanna be on meds yet anyway cuz his symptoms are still mild and the side effects would be worse than the help atm...

 

But if later he decides he thinks it's worth the side effects, this would be a great help!

Multiple Sclerosis is an uncurable degenerative disease. His symptoms might not be very upsetting now, but the medication would actually prevent the progression of the disease. 

In Portugal, he'd pay absolutely nothing for MS medication :/ 

I hope Canada can get to a deal. At least they should be able to cover a fair percentage (each group of drugs gets a percentage based on how relevant they are for both Public and individual Health).

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Economy
10 minutes ago, AlexanderMagno said:

Multiple Sclerosis is an uncurable degenerative disease. His symptoms might not be very upsetting now, but the medication would actually prevent the progression of the disease. 

In Portugal, he'd pay absolutely nothing for MS medication :/ 

I hope Canada can get to a deal. At least they should be able to cover a fair percentage (each group of drugs gets a percentage based on how relevant they are for both Public and individual Health).

There's a lot of controversy around that

 

MS is not very well understood fundamentaly and what the meds do is very limited

 

Some doctors including one of the best in the Country in Ottawa doesn't suggest it until it gets bad because the side effects from those drugs are also severe and do a lot of damage also

 

With autoimmune desieses lifestyle changes have a bigger impact than meds

 

Im not anti medication overall to be clear. But some types of health problems don't have truly effective medication for it unfortunately

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AlexanderMagno
1 minute ago, Economy said:

There's a lot of controversy around that

 

MS is not very well understood fundamentaly and what the meds do is very limited

 

Some doctors including one of the best in the Country in Ottawa doesn't suggest it until it gets bad because the side effects from those drugs are also severe and do a lot of damage also

 

With autoimmune desieses lifestyle changes have a bigger impact than meds

 

Im not anti medication overall to be clear. But some types of health problems don't have truly effective medication for it unfortunately

Trust me, I'm a doctor and I deal with MS every day. That is wrong, I can tell you.

Of course, we might be talking about different drugs, but nowadays there are very safe options for early stages of MS (I'm assuming it's your brother's case).

Yes, of course lifestyle is incredibly important, and that should always be a concern! And not only for auto-immune diseases, but for almost every disease there is.

The only not very well understood question about MS is really the mechanism. We don't exactly know if it's autoimmune, so we can't call it that. It's just one theory. Overall, it looks like the body is in a state of inflammation, which causes nerve cells to lose their functions.

 

MS has two phases. The first phase is relapsing-remitting: you have acute, and then you recover (but never completely, there's always a small "scar"). The second phase is progressive: you don't have any more attacks, but instead your body slowly and irreversibly degenerates.

It takes years to go from phase one to phase two (usually). But medication helps that transition to take even longer to happen!! And the good news is that there are a lot, a lot more drugs for the relapsing-remitting phase than for the progressive phase. That is why I advise your brother to look for the most appropriate meds for his condition and disease stage: medication is not just there to help with the symptoms, it's there to try to prevent the disease from moving forward. And, unfortunately, it will move forward. But the chance to make it slower is actually very good, and people who are nowadays diagnosed with MS have the chance to live regular lifes.

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Economy
37 minutes ago, AlexanderMagno said:

Trust me, I'm a doctor and I deal with MS every day. That is wrong, I can tell you.

Of course, we might be talking about different drugs, but nowadays there are very safe options for early stages of MS (I'm assuming it's your brother's case).

Yes, of course lifestyle is incredibly important, and that should always be a concern! And not only for auto-immune diseases, but for almost every disease there is.

The only not very well understood question about MS is really the mechanism. We don't exactly know if it's autoimmune, so we can't call it that. It's just one theory. Overall, it looks like the body is in a state of inflammation, which causes nerve cells to lose their functions.

 

MS has two phases. The first phase is relapsing-remitting: you have acute, and then you recover (but never completely, there's always a small "scar"). The second phase is progressive: you don't have any more attacks, but instead your body slowly and irreversibly degenerates.

It takes years to go from phase one to phase two (usually). But medication helps that transition to take even longer to happen!! And the good news is that there are a lot, a lot more drugs for the relapsing-remitting phase than for the progressive phase. That is why I advise your brother to look for the most appropriate meds for his condition and disease stage: medication is not just there to help with the symptoms, it's there to try to prevent the disease from moving forward. And, unfortunately, it will move forward. But the chance to make it slower is actually very good, and people who are nowadays diagnosed with MS have the chance to live regular lifes.

Thanks for your input...

 

The reason I say this is because an insurance guy that passes by our company a lot also has MS and had several appointments going all the way to Ottawa (that's 4 hours from here in Toronto) for what's suppostu be one of the best doctors for MS in the Country

 

He said his own doctor had said the meds for this desiese are not as effective as advertised and didn't recommend them for him

 

He made lifestyle changes and for years has been in remition

 

To be clear, it's not like I was at the appointment to hear details, nor do I know which drugs he was talking about

 

This is just what he had said

 

I also know about Dr. Terry Walls who had severe MS and was in a wheel chair and none of the meds were working for her and she only went into remission once she made dietary changes and she's not on meds now and she became an advocate

 

I can't help it but wonder with different sides saying opposite things where the truth truly lies or if it's in between etc

 

I respect that ur a doctor so take no offense. But with all due respect doctors don't know everything and some don't seem to always stay up to date with new findings on stuff

 

For example I have blood pressure issues. Despite consistent new research showing that sugar has as much impact as salt, all the older doctors tell me it's false it's the salt and won't even acknowledge the possibility sugar may have some impact while only the youngest doctors at the ward acknowledged sugar likely does indeed have an impact although they still told me to be careful with the salt

 

I feel like some doctors learn what they learn in medical school and then not all of them stay up to date after that :huh:

 

Not saying that's u and im kind of going off topic now

 

But what in saying is I don't always know what to trust in the medical community and it sucks having a brother with such a complicated illness :/

 

PS: ur from Portugal? Cool! I used to live there, that's my background! Im actually going to visit in September

 

Edited by Economy

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AlexanderMagno
10 hours ago, Economy said:

He said his own doctor had said the meds for this desiese are not as effective as advertised and didn't recommend them for him

I find this perplexing. There are different types of MS, I can give him that, but medication is as effective as it could be. with our understanding of the disease. 

 

Anyway, I'm not going to discuss these matters here, because the truth is I don't know your brother and I don't really like to make these judgements at a long distance. We, as doctors, need to interact with the patient, and until then I shall believe you. If you want good articles about MS though, I can always help you. I'm fascinated by the area and one of my standards as a doctor is to provide a good quality of life (sometimes it's more significant than the cure).

 

As for the lifestyle situation and Dr. Tarry Wahls, it's a controversial theme. But yes, always remember that lifestyle is as important as medication, and sometimes even more. Medication is there to help when the body can no longer compensate the disease.

 

As for sugar vs salt, I don't understand why your doctor didn't explain it to you properly.

Both are bad, obviously.

Basically: sugar is bad for diabetes (which is a terrible syndrome that leads to multiple problems in your body) and salt is bad for cardiovascular disease (which includes strokes and heart attacks).

In the end, both are intertwined. Diabetes raises the risk for cardiovascular disease, and cardiovascular disease risks such as salt will help diabetes's complications appear faster.

In the specific case of blood pressure: salt is indeed the major danger. Because salt directly influences cardiovascular diseases (hypertension is one of them). Sugar does not. Sugar can lead to diabetes, which can lead to kidney problems, which can lead to hypertension.

(theoretically, sugar can make your blood less fluid, and when the body senses that, it will respond by elevating your blood pressure. But this will only happen in an hyperglycemic state, which is basically a decompensated diabetes, so you can eat as much sugar as you like and it won't affect your blood pressure. Unless you get diabetes in a few years)

So, in the end, your doctor is right. Salt is the major risk. But he should have explained it to you better.

 

I hope you understand my "lesson". If you have any questions, ask away! 

Yes, I'm from Portugal! Hope you have a wonderful stay, there's so much to see and in the last few years there was a big investment in rehabilitating cities like Lisbon and Porto, so basically we are now considered the "coolest" country in Europe.

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HotLikeMexico

is it bad that as soon as I saw Canada, I knew you were gonna be the OP.

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Economy
4 hours ago, AlexanderMagno said:

I find this perplexing. There are different types of MS, I can give him that, but medication is as effective as it could be. with our understanding of the disease. 

 

Anyway, I'm not going to discuss these matters here, because the truth is I don't know your brother and I don't really like to make these judgements at a long distance. We, as doctors, need to interact with the patient, and until then I shall believe you. If you want good articles about MS though, I can always help you. I'm fascinated by the area and one of my standards as a doctor is to provide a good quality of life (sometimes it's more significant than the cure).

 

As for the lifestyle situation and Dr. Tarry Wahls, it's a controversial theme. But yes, always remember that lifestyle is as important as medication, and sometimes even more. Medication is there to help when the body can no longer compensate the disease.

 

As for sugar vs salt, I don't understand why your doctor didn't explain it to you properly.

Both are bad, obviously.

Basically: sugar is bad for diabetes (which is a terrible syndrome that leads to multiple problems in your body) and salt is bad for cardiovascular disease (which includes strokes and heart attacks).

In the end, both are intertwined. Diabetes raises the risk for cardiovascular disease, and cardiovascular disease risks such as salt will help diabetes's complications appear faster.

In the specific case of blood pressure: salt is indeed the major danger. Because salt directly influences cardiovascular diseases (hypertension is one of them). Sugar does not. Sugar can lead to diabetes, which can lead to kidney problems, which can lead to hypertension.

(theoretically, sugar can make your blood less fluid, and when the body senses that, it will respond by elevating your blood pressure. But this will only happen in an hyperglycemic state, which is basically a decompensated diabetes, so you can eat as much sugar as you like and it won't affect your blood pressure. Unless you get diabetes in a few years)

So, in the end, your doctor is right. Salt is the major risk. But he should have explained it to you better.

 

I hope you understand my "lesson". If you have any questions, ask away! 

Yes, I'm from Portugal! Hope you have a wonderful stay, there's so much to see and in the last few years there was a big investment in rehabilitating cities like Lisbon and Porto, so basically we are now considered the "coolest" country in Europe.

Thanks for your input. If u have any other advices especially on MS please PM me :hug:

 

PS: And I thought salt raised blood pressure because of water retention not necessarily desiese :huh:

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Delusional Aura

I don't like the idea of Universal Healthcare. For preventable diseases like diabetes or STDs, you should pay for it cause it's your lifestyle that caused it. For diseases that is not preventable like certain cancers ect, then by all means I'm for susidised or free Healthcare in these instances.

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AlexanderMagno
1 hour ago, Economy said:

Thanks for your input. If u have any other advices especially on MS please PM me :hug:

 

PS: And I thought salt raised blood pressure because of water retention not necessarily desiese :huh:

Yes, well I simplified the thing :tongue: yes, true, salt provokes water retention. Water retention makes the kidneys raise blood pressure. What I meant was, the ultimate problem is always cardiovascular disease risk (and kidney disease by the way, but even there sugar is only bad because it can lead to diabetes). In the end, high blood pressure is a problem because it provokes cardiovascular diseases.

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Economy
11 minutes ago, AlexanderMagno said:

Yes, well I simplified the thing :tongue: yes, true, salt provokes water retention. Water retention makes the kidneys raise blood pressure. What I meant was, the ultimate problem is always cardiovascular disease risk (and kidney disease by the way, but even there sugar is only bad because it can lead to diabetes). In the end, high blood pressure is a problem because it provokes cardiovascular diseases.

Im curious what u think of this, especially the part about a higher glycemic index influencing blood pressure

 

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/in-depth/high-blood-pressure-excess-sugar-diet-may-culprit/

 

I don't. Pertend to understand it all. But I know there's been a lot of studies the last few years that are linking sugar as a big contributing factor to blood pressure

 

Im not saying salt doesn't do it tho or that what u told me about salt is incorrect

 

All I know is I got terrible genetics for blood pressure. It runs in my family and despite a lot of exercise and a reasonable diet my blood pressure is always high (between 130 and 145 usually) and im only 26

 

Although I also heard that in North America they set the threshold for what's considered high blood pressure lower than in Europe but that may not be true cuz I don't remember where I heard that from

 

Edit: if this source is legitimate looks like there is a small difference

 

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/in-depth/high-blood-pressure-excess-sugar-diet-may-culprit/

Edited by Economy

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AlexanderMagno
4 minutes ago, Economy said:

Im curious what u think of this, especially the part about a higher glycemic index influencing blood pressure

 

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/in-depth/high-blood-pressure-excess-sugar-diet-may-culprit/

 

I don't. Pertend to understand it all. But I know there's been a lot of studies the last few years that are linking sugar as a big contributing factor to blood pressure

 

Im not saying salt doesn't do it tho or that what u told me about salt is incorrect

 

All I know is I got terrible genetics for blood pressure. It runs in my family and despite a lot of exercise and a reasonable diet my blood pressure is always high (between 130 and 145 usually) and im only 26

 

Although I also heard that in North America they set the threshold for what's considered high blood pressure lower than in Europe but that may not be true cuz I don't remember where I heard that from

I will read it tomorrow! (it's 2am here so excuse me for keeping this study for tomorrow haha)

 

It's true! North America considers hypertension for lower blood pressure values than Europe (Europe and America differ quite a bit about health approaches).

They are not wrong, after all the lowest blood pressure is the better. And metabolic syndrome in North America is a big issue (I'm talking about obesity, and all those risk factors, just like hypertension, that increase cardiovascular disease), so it's understandable that they try to call out how important it is to control blood pressure.

So why the difference? Because if we consider North America guidelines' blood pressure values, they are so intangible that almost everyone in the world would be considered having hypertension. Theoretically, their values are correct, you should keep blood pressure as low as possible, but in practice almost no one will be able to reach those values. That's why Europe keeps the threshold a bit higher, it's more realistic and still is acceptable. 130-140 values are considered pre-hypertension (just keep exercising, a good diet, and you're good).

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