Nobody really knows how industry works

[andy232000 11,679]

19 minutes ago, Lord Temptation said:

I don't think he is obsessed or trying to convince anyone, I think he is just being adorable! 

Who cares if Gaga doesn't have streaming power. Streaming is for disposable people to hear disposable music. If you love something you will want to own it.

At this point he is obsessed. And not just thid time but usually when Gaga's views are brought up its always the same old storry withhim/her

[AyaKara 2,281]

3 hours ago, ViviLittleM said:

I know that we can help Gaga to have two more VEVO Certified videos.

Stay on-topic, Vivi and others

[Lord Temptation 11,209]

1 minute ago, andy232000 said:

At this point he is obsessed. And not just thid time but usually when Gaga's views are brought up its always the same old storry withhim/her

Maybe. But I'm sure he/she knows that nobody will stream or listen to Gaga simply because he is asking.

[andy232000 11,679]

1 hour ago, Lord Temptation said:

Maybe. But I'm sure he/she knows that nobody will stream or listen to Gaga simply because he is asking.

Then why keep spamming? Thats the real question then

[The Child 18,997]

3 hours ago, Runway said:

Thief would have put her name on the songwriting credits of Ave Maria if she could

I think she did.

[dopega 3,736]

4 hours ago, ViviLittleM said:

I know that we can help Gaga to have two more VEVO Certified videos.

 

 

 You should get some kind of award for trying so hard on getting those VEVO Certified 

[StrawberryBlond 14,881]

Tell me about it. The level of delusion some people have regarding their faves is shocking. Trying to convince themselves they can sing when their weak voice couldn't sing its way out a paper bag, that they play a big role on all their tracks when they maybe add or change one word at most, that they conceive all their album concepts and themes completely on their own when they probably just send a list of recent things that have happened in their lives to their writing camps, that they actually care about their fans when all they see is walking, talking dollar signs. Most artists, especially after a while, know how they system works and reap the benefits of it, meaning they don't have to work as hard yet can take all the credit for it. You're pretty much guaranteed that any song that isn't an acoustic guitar number likely has a big team behind if, all the right connections made, even moreso than there used to be. Gaga's a gem in the middle of all this mess, especially in pop music specifically. She may not write and produce 100% of everything she makes but she tries her hardest to get pretty damn close. We know Gaga's been writing and producing on her own pre-fame and there's no way she's stopped now she's famous. The fact she's written for others (you don't see Rihanna or Beyonce doing that), is testament to how genuine she is. I don't go around saying this stuff willy-nilly. It's a big deal for me to call an artist truly genuine these days.

4 hours ago, Didymus said:

Ikr. Imagine these people criticizing Aretha Franklin, Tina Turner, Dionne Warwick, Céline Dion,... for not writing their own songs And before people quote me saying "well at least those people could sing", pop music is about entertainment value so that's still no good reason to pretend that some pop artists' careers are illegitimate because they don't answer to your standard of quality, which if you're pitting pop artists against each other shouldn't be very impressive anyway  

Pop elitists are the worst.

I criticise them for not writing their own stuff. I know, I'm one of the few. Regardless of their ability to sing, it's beyond me why, in all these years, none of them ever considered trying to even co-write ONE song. Not one song written by them...I find it hard to believe they could really love music if they never want to be involved in it in all that time. I mean, even singers who are known to be helped massively in the studio like Britney, Rihanna, J.Lo, Nicole Scherzinger, Cheryl Cole, etc. have co-written a fair number of tracks, if not half an album or more. Even Britney managed to co-write the entirety of Britney Jean, even the bonus tracks! Her involvement was likely extremely minimal, all things considered, but at least she put some work in! Yet, she gets s**t on much more than these legends who never wrote a note, just because they can hold a tune. It's a strange old world.

[Kayla 7,595]

11 hours ago, Didymus said:

Ikr. Imagine these people criticizing Aretha Franklin, Tina Turner, Dionne Warwick, Céline Dion,... for not writing their own songs And before people quote me saying "well at least those people could sing", pop music is about entertainment value so that's still no good reason to pretend that some pop artists' careers are illegitimate because they don't answer to your standard of quality, which if you're pitting pop artists against each other shouldn't be very impressive anyway  

Pop elitists are the worst.

I wish I had more likes. 

[Didymus 34,380]

11 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

I criticise them for not writing their own stuff. I know, I'm one of the few. Regardless of their ability to sing, it's beyond me why, in all these years, none of them ever considered trying to even co-write ONE song. Not one song written by them...I find it hard to believe they could really love music if they never want to be involved in it in all that time. I mean, even singers who are known to be helped massively in the studio like Britney, Rihanna, J.Lo, Nicole Scherzinger, Cheryl Cole, etc. have co-written a fair number of tracks, if not half an album or more. Even Britney managed to co-write the entirety of Britney Jean, even the bonus tracks! Her involvement was likely extremely minimal, all things considered, but at least she put some work in! Yet, she gets s**t on much more than these legends who never wrote a note, just because they can hold a tune. It's a strange old world.

Welcome back

I mean.. I think vocal delivery is an artform in itself. I think we had a discussion about that already and we probably won't agree, but yeah I think it's possible to love music and be really talented in terms of vocal delivery while not knowing how the hell to write a good song The same goes for songwriters who might love to write killer tracks but don't know how to transform them into killer finished "stories" that require interpretation.

So yeah, I don't really think it's that important. Artists in complete control of their own art is a plus to be sure, but when that's lacking it's not necessarily a minus, if you know what I mean.. It's not like you're guaranteed brilliant quality when singers write their own songs I only have a "problem" when (usually pop) fans make wrong conclusions and try to argue that someone like Beyoncé did everything herself (which people only seem to conclude when they want to argue she's better than everyone else), but to be blatantly honest, that goes as much for Gaga fans as it goes for others. If we follow your argumentation, we'd have to conclude imo that Grimes is the far better, more authentic, more legitimate artist because she actually does everything herself instead of relying on a creative team etc. which not all artists do indeed

[StrawberryBlond 14,881]

9 hours ago, Didymus said:

Welcome back

I mean.. I think vocal delivery is an artform in itself. I think we had a discussion about that already and we probably won't agree, but yeah I think it's possible to love music and be really talented in terms of vocal delivery while not knowing how the hell to write a good song The same goes for songwriters who might love to write killer tracks but don't know how to transform them into killer finished "stories" that require interpretation.

So yeah, I don't really think it's that important. Artists in complete control of their own art is a plus to be sure, but when that's lacking it's not necessarily a minus, if you know what I mean.. It's not like you're guaranteed brilliant quality when singers write their own songs I only have a "problem" when (usually pop) fans make wrong conclusions and try to argue that someone like Beyoncé did everything herself (which people only seem to conclude when they want to argue she's better than everyone else), but to be blatantly honest, that goes as much for Gaga fans as it goes for others. If we follow your argumentation, we'd have to conclude imo that Grimes is the far better, more authentic, more legitimate artist because she actually does everything herself instead of relying on a creative team etc. which not all artists do indeed

I started posting 2 days ago, you just haven't noticed until now. Trust me to come back with a big slice of negativity!

Yes, vocal delivery is an artform in itself, I am a singer, after all. But I don't think that alone makes someone an artist because a voice isn't a creation, per se. It's simply a talent but it can't do anything other than show itself, if you get what I mean. The ability to write, draw, play, etc. can manifest itself into various artforms - it's a talent you can apply to do things. Yes, being able to sing but not being able to write is common but I'm not asking for them to write a complete song on their own, just a co-write, even if it's with the help of 10 other writers. I mean, nowadays, you can get a credit on a song for changing/adding one word. When the bar is set that low, what excuse do all these singers have for not having their name on any of their songs?

It's sometimes the case that a singer cannot show good emotion or connection for a song that's written for them because they have no personal experience with it, they're just singing it, not feeling it. Not all of them are like this, sure, but it's a distinct problem I've had with a lot who do, so that's what I say as a big minus when artists don't write their own material. I notice you keep bringing up Grimes, by the way. I didn't even like her album, just so you know. I found it very forgettable, don't know what all the fuss is about. So, yeah, if there's anyone who says that an artist doing it all themselves doesn't guarantee quality, it'll be me!

[Didymus 34,380]

11 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

Yes, vocal delivery is an artform in itself, I am a singer, after all. But I don't think that alone makes someone an artist because a voice isn't a creation, per se. It's simply a talent but it can't do anything other than show itself, if you get what I mean. The ability to write, draw, play, etc. can manifest itself into various artforms - it's a talent you can apply to do things.

Well yeah, I'll never agree with that. I don't think there's any difference between a vocal delivery "just showing itself" and a writer interpreting the ideas in his head in order to make a captivating story. This idea of "other talents can be applied to multiple artforms" is just strange to me, I don't see how that matters for the actual eventual product delivered, about which the discussion should be.

I get your points, but I just don't value it as highly. I'm satisfied when a product is satisfying and I'll happily credit the people involved in making it even if the number of people extends way beyond the obvious figure taking the credit. Like I said, it is indeed annoying when super fans can't acknowledge that extension, but personally I don't feel a need to take that topic and connect it to the actual creativity of artists and how it can be measured or whatever. To me that's not even 100% off-topic

At the end of the day, you're on a Gaga forum which means you do care more about the final product than about the creative process, or you would've left when you found out that Gaga just took several finished instrumentals from her producers and sang over them multiple times in her career, and still getting a production credit for it. Which is what my initial posts were about: people who enjoy pop music shouldn't go on a witch hunt for other artists who are supposedly less legit because they don't do everything themselves because there will always be examples found of people who are more involved than your favorite, and then it comes down to it just being a taste issue anyway like it does now in your post

[StrawberryBlond 14,881]

2 minutes ago, Didymus said:

Well yeah, I'll never agree with that. I don't think there's any difference between a vocal delivery "just showing itself" and a writer interpreting the ideas in his head in order to make a captivating story. This idea of "other talents can be applied to multiple artforms" is just strange to me, I don't see how that matters for the actual eventual product delivered, about which the discussion should be.

I get your points, but I just don't value it as highly. I'm satisfied when a product is satisfying and I'll happily credit the people involved in making it even if the number of people extends way beyond the obvious figure taking the credit. Like I said, it is indeed annoying when super fans can't acknowledge that extension, but personally I don't feel a need to take that topic and connect it to the actual creativity of artists and how it can be measured or whatever. To me that's not even 100% off-topic

At the end of the day, you're on a Gaga forum which means you do care more about the final product than about the creative process, or you would've left when you found out that Gaga just took several finished instrumentals from her producers and sang over them multiple times in her career, and still getting a production credit for it. Which is what my initial posts were about: people who enjoy pop music shouldn't go on a witch hunt for other artists who are supposedly less legit because they don't do everything themselves because there will always be examples found of people who are more involved than your favorite, and then it comes down to it just being a taste issue anyway like it does now in your post

You really don't think the writer is of a higher position? Without them, the singer would have nothing to sing. That's what I mean about singing just being a talent within itself, it can't be used to create other things. We only see the talent of singing if someone with the talent of writing provides a song. And I certainly don't think ad libbing and riffing in a song counts as creating, like some people do *cough*Beyonce*cough* I love singing, but we need to be more realistic about its limitations and what creating is. Singing a song better than someone else doesn't make you an artist, it just makes you a better singer and interpreter. I'm all about keeping it real. This recent understanding of a singer as a creator in and of themselves is such an arty-farty thing that amounts to nothing more than people with limited talents trying to take credit that isn't due and stroking their already huge egos.

But we know Gaga produces and plays instruments, so that over-rides that for me. We know what she's capable of, so I'm fine with her not producing everything now and again. But I do get suspicious about credits when it's a person who isn't noted for writing or producing. I mean, Rihanna has been on production credits and we know she has no skills on that front, so what's the deal? Same with Beyonce. No instruments played, so what's this production credit? (as said before, she considers the way you sing a song to count as production, the chancer that she is). But if a noted instrument player has production credits I'm a lot more willing to believe it. I'm not asking for 100% involvement (who does anyway?), just some level of it. And respect for said artists should depend on how much involvement they have.