Daily Economy Thread

[Luc 4,776]

Royal Dutch Shell has annoumced it's buying BG for 64.3 billion euros. 

 

http://www.nu.nl/beurs/4026398/shell-koopt-britse-gasproducent-bg-.html

[Economy 52,861]

Royal Dutch Shell has annoumced it's buying BG for 64.3 billion euros. 

 

http://www.nu.nl/beurs/4026398/shell-koopt-britse-gasproducent-bg-.html

Dang the amount of money  

[Luc 4,776]

The morals in the banking industry have actually changed, tbh :applause: a few months ago, the nationalized bank ABN Amro (worth 80% of the GDP) announced it would higher wages for the top 7 by 100.000 euros, and after a huge controversy they put it back. ING Bank (worth 90% of GDP) also announced it would raise wages for the top, but they're not a state bank anymore. Now '#ikstapovervanbank' ('#I'mchangingbanks) is trending on Twitter, with everybody going to Triodos (good equality, lowest risk, ecologically responsible, etc.) and ASN (the bank I use  4,5% interest on my pre-crisis 12-year long frozen account).

 

Also, I think there should be a worldwide tax on net worth (besides the first house). The inequality index in my (socialist) country is 0,91 on the scale of 0 (totally equal) to 1,0 (totally inequal), with the top 3 persons having more money than the 50% poorest. Socialism is useless, if you don't look at net worth inequality. A 1% tax which can't be easily evaded would bring my country over 15 billion a year (2.5% of GDP), while only actually taking a high amount of money from the top 10%.

[Woolfsmck 2,763]

World wide tax?    

 

Lol

[Economy 52,861]

The morals in the banking industry have actually changed, tbh :applause: a few months ago, the nationalized bank ABN Amro (worth 80% of the GDP) announced it would higher wages for the top 7 by 100.000 euros, and after a huge controversy they put it back. ING Bank (worth 90% of GDP) also announced it would raise wages for the top, but they're not a state bank anymore. Now '#ikstapovervanbank' ('#I'mchangingbanks) is trending on Twitter, with everybody going to Triodos (good equality, lowest risk, ecologically responsible, etc.) and ASN (the bank I use  4,5% interest on my pre-crisis 12-year long frozen account).

 

Also, I think there should be a worldwide tax on net worth (besides the first house). The inequality index in my (socialist) country is 0,91 on the scale of 0 (totally equal) to 1,0 (totally inequal), with the top 3 persons having more money than the 50% poorest. Socialism is useless, if you don't look at net worth inequality. A 1% tax which can't be easily evaded would bring my country over 15 billion a year (2.5% of GDP), while only actually taking a high amount of money from the top 10%.

U should see banks here. Now offering mortage rates below 2%. No wonder the housing bubble just doesnt seem to burst even tho economists have been saying "anytime now" for the past 6 years  

 

anyway i still think that idea of yours is completely unrealistic. Some assets are hard to place a definite value on them... Others u cant track (are u gonna do an audit of my house to see what items i have and try to add up a total)?

 

then theres the fact that ppl already payed taxes on income. Why should they be taxed over and over every year on income they already made and were already taxed on???

 

if such a rediculous thing existed, id buy a bounch of good and diamonds, put it in a safe  so noody knew about it so id preserve value without payig taxes and how would u tax that?

 

Also this would be unfair. U could have someone make $200,000 a year and be wreckless and spend all their money and not accumulate net worth, or you could have someone who makes half as much ($100,000) who decides to save up, contribute to RSP, pay off mortgage, build up wealth in all sorts of areas so they could enjoy nice retirement etc...

 

in essance ud punish ppl who are responsible with their money while encouraging ppl to just be wreckless and spend all they got so they dont get bombarded with tax

 

i think this suggestion of a networth tax is both unethical AND too hard to implement. Theres a reason such ideas are so quickly shot down by the majority of ppl, even lefties

[TiphEret 1,320]

@Economy what do you define as socialism by the way? I think in Europe we don't use the same definition.

Also you talk about Scandinavia as capitalist countries however the social welfare is very good (currently living in Denmark and well...they have money! I can tell you that!) they also have high taxes so wouldn't that be more characteristic of socialist countries? Also why is France failing so much? To me it seems the government has been trying to help industries that were sort of doomed (car industry) and putting too high taxes on company, while not distributing social welfare properly...

[Luc 4,776]

@Economy what do you define as socialism by the way? I think in Europe we don't use the same definition.

Also you talk about Scandinavia as capitalist countries however the social welfare is very good (currently living in Denmark and well...they have money! I can tell you that!) they also have high taxes so wouldn't that be more characteristic of socialist countries? Also why is France failing so much? To me it seems the government has been trying to help industries that were sort of doomed (car industry) and putting too high taxes on company, while not distributing social welfare properly...

Denmark is a socialist (well, socialdemocratic) country. Taxes are at 51.5% of income for a large part of the population, and the public sectors makes up for 1 in 3 employees.

France's socialism failed. I don't know why, because I never bothered to look at what they did. But they seemed to have increased taxes for the big companies (-> less jobs) and they invested in the economy, eventhough the rest of Europe cut, cut and cut. 

I think investing out of a crisis is possible, actually maybe better than cutting. You will have to cut when the economy has recovered, though. Every country should strive for a debt of 0%, and I think that the French government could've invested more wisely. France is well off on the long term because they don't really have an aging population as much as the rest of Europe.

But at least Sarkozy will have enough to cut when he becomes president.

[Economy 52,861]

@Economy what do you define as socialism by the way? I think in Europe we don't use the same definition.

Also you talk about Scandinavia as capitalist countries however the social welfare is very good (currently living in Denmark and well...they have money! I can tell you that!) they also have high taxes so wouldn't that be more characteristic of socialist countries? Also why is France failing so much? To me it seems the government has been trying to help industries that were sort of doomed (car industry) and putting too high taxes on company, while not distributing social welfare properly...

Huh????????? I never said Scandinavian Countries were capitalist at all!!! 

 

What ive said multiple times is that socialism is harder to pull off than Capitalism because if the Government is gonna manage more of a Countries resources by high taxation and spending with less private sector they gotta be really competent Governments that know how to invest and make the benefits of those investments compensate for any negatives higher taxes might have on the economy (such as having competitive educated workforce and good infrastructure and ao some companies may still invest in your Country despite higher taxes)...

 

but most Countries who have tried socialism have failed. They spend money in the wrong things, or opposition parties block them from doing things etc and u get a big failed mess...

 

So what i did say was that Scandinavian Countries and some other North European Countries are pretty much the only Countries that have successfuly pulled off socialism... Their small size helps as well because its easier to manage smaller economies and population while big Nations would be harder

 

I didnt say they were Capitalist, what i said was that they are the only non-capitalists i can think of that managed to create prosperous conditions!!!

[Economy 52,861]

Denmark is a socialist (well, socialdemocratic) country. Taxes are at 51.5% of income for a large part of the population, and the public sectors makes up for 1 in 3 employees.

France's socialism failed. I don't know why, because I never bothered to look at what they did. But they seemed to have increased taxes for the big companies (-> less jobs) and they invested in the economy, eventhough the rest of Europe cut, cut and cut. 

I think investing out of a crisis is possible, actually maybe better than cutting. You will have to cut when the economy has recovered, though. Every country should strive for a debt of 0%, and I think that the French government could've invested more wisely. France is well off on the long term because they don't really have an aging population as much as the rest of Europe.

But at least Sarkozy will have enough to cut when he becomes president.

France failed to invest in the right things. Exactly what i was talking about in the post above. If ur gonna tax more and you spend all ur money in entitlements and other stuff that doesnt really build an economy, then whats gonna promote economic growth?

 

they should have invested more in infrastructure and education and less in other stuff. Some of their regulations are also dumb especially with labor laws. They make it hard to fire people and have good severance benefits etc etc etc. some believe thats a classic example of a socialist policy backfiring, because it makes a company think twice about whether or not they really wanna hire another worker because once they hire them, its not easy to just fire them. Thats just 1 example

 

I also make the case that France has a much larger population than Denmark or Scandinavia and as Ive said before, the larger the Country, the harder to manage it and control it making socialism difficult

 

A country as diversified and as populous as the USA for example if they tried to have as much Government control as scandinavia forget it, would be a total mess. Better to let private sector grow and Government just provide some basic regulation to maintain order and basic taxes for basic services but if they tried to manage resources of a $18 trillion economy from 330 million people... Nothing but a big mess would come out of that!!!

[TiphEret 1,320]

Huh????????? I never said Scandinavian Countries were capitalist at all!!! 

 

What ive said multiple times is that socialism is harder to pull off than Capitalism because if the Government is gonna manage more of a Countries resources by high taxation and spending with less private sector they gotta be really competent Governments that know how to invest and make the benefits of those investments compensate for any negatives higher taxes might have on the economy (such as having competitive educated workforce and good infrastructure and ao some companies may still invest in your Country despite higher taxes)...

 

but most Countries who have tried socialism have failed. They spend money in the wrong things, or opposition parties block them from doing things etc and u get a big failed mess...

 

So what i did say was that Scandinavian Countries and some other North European Countries are pretty much the only Countries that have successfuly pulled off socialism... Their small size helps as well because its easier to manage smaller economies and population while big Nations would be harder

 

I didnt say they were Capitalist, what i said was that they are the only non-capitalists i can think of that managed to create prosperous conditions!!!

​Nå, ok I misunderstood I guess :)

Thanks for your explanations, I totally get your point and I couldn't agree more about the situation in France. I have been able to see socialism at his best in Denmark, like you really feel the government has a LOT of money, I think they invest so much in welfare but I also heard it won't sustain for too long :/ because most employees are from the public sectors so there isn't so much actual entrepreneur creating growth ... We will see but now it looks like "le radeau de la méduse" european, with all the spanish, greeks, french, and eastern europeans moving here. Imagine just if you study a master here, when you are done, you can get benefit...plus if you are from the EU and you study here you don't pay but you can receive student support if you work at least 10h a week! and student support is like 700€! I have a crappy job and I make more than some qualified people in France! But sure the taxes are so high, but in a way you can see how they are put to use so ...

In France I can't understand why we don't invest more in our education, we have great potential, but it's just so outdated and not every students can get support. That's what I appreciate in Denmark it's true equality because everbody pays taxes so even if you are a rich kid you will get it and that's important because we never know the situation of each individual..

In France I feel that the middle class is being screwed over and over and for what? I am considering studying in Canada (Québec) and hopefully settle there, I feel the work market is more dynamic and there is more excitment and opportunities! It doesn't feel doomed like France but I might be wrong too!

[Economy 52,861]

 

​Nå, ok I misunderstood I guess :)

Thanks for your explanations, I totally get your point and I couldn't agree more about the situation in France. I have been able to see socialism at his best in Denmark, like you really feel the government has a LOT of money, I think they invest so much in welfare but I also heard it won't sustain for too long :/ because most employees are from the public sectors so there isn't so much actual entrepreneur creating growth ... We will see but now it looks like "le radeau de la méduse" european, with all the spanish, greeks, french, and eastern europeans moving here. Imagine just if you study a master here, when you are done, you can get benefit...plus if you are from the EU and you study here you don't pay but you can receive student support if you work at least 10h a week! and student support is like 700€! I have a crappy job and I make more than some qualified people in France! But sure the taxes are so high, but in a way you can see how they are put to use so ...

In France I can't understand why we don't invest more in our education, we have great potential, but it's just so outdated and not every students can get support. That's what I appreciate in Denmark it's true equality because everbody pays taxes so even if you are a rich kid you will get it and that's important because we never know the situation of each individual..

In France I feel that the middle class is being screwed over and over and for what? I am considering studying in Canada (Québec) and hopefully settle there, I feel the work market is more dynamic and there is more excitment and opportunities! It doesn't feel doomed like France but I might be wrong too!

Yeah theres always more than one way of doing things, part of it is HOW u do it not just what method u choose to use. But Socialism i think is the harder way cuz the Government really needs to know what they are foing with tax money and with the regulations!

​

Yeah theres always more than one way of doing things, part of it is HOW u do it not just what method u choose to use. But Socialism i think is the harder way cuz the Government really needs to know what they are foing with tax money and with the regulations!

And Canadas economy varies A LOT from one region to another

 

British Columbia is mostly lumber and tourism. They also have a fast growing high tech industry. They are also the most environmentally contious people in Canada so any industry related to green development is probably strong there (i would assume but im not sure)

 

The praries (Alberta and Saskatchwean) are the richest Provinces in Canada. Low Government debt, low unemployment and high wages. They are resource based economies with oil being the biggest but also coal, natural gas, mining (for copper, uranium, nickel and gold), uranium and potash extraction is also major there. If oil prices stay low for too long tho they will take a hit.

 

Central Canada (Ontario and Quebec) which are the most populated Provinces are mostly manufacturing based. Weve taken a bit economic hit here cause manufacturing has been struggling since the mid 2000s. The Toronto area specifically has had a huge financial and Corporate boom tho, they cant build office buildings fast enough for all the corporations moving here to escape high taxes elsewhere (like in the US). So at least in the Toronto area thats partially offsettig the decline in manufacturing

 

Atlantic Canada in the East has had high unemployment, low economic growth and low wages since the mid 90s. They rely heavily on fishing which took a big hit many years ago. Theyve tried to grow other sectors but with low population and lack of young people (which left to find work in othe parts of Canada) they lack demographics or educated young people to attract other businesses so they are stuck in a vicious cycle. They tried to grow tourism with some success but its not enough. Would not recomend that part of Canada

 

So here u gotta do your research. Canada varies A LOT from region to region and general National Statistics dont tell u that. So depending on what your looking for, oppurtunities vary from one part of the Country to another

 

[Luc 4,776]

Welp, looks like Greece is going bankrupt and perhaps leaving the Eurozone. Maybe even the EU and NATO.

[Economy 52,861]

Welp, looks like Greece is going bankrupt and perhaps leaving the Eurozone. Maybe even the EU and NATO.

holy mother i just read about them walking out

 

if they default that could distabalize european financial markets and in turn global financial markets  

 

what do they hope to accomplish? Why do they wanna refuse to pay and get one extention after another with few reforms?

 

Greece did this to thenselves... In mid 2000s they even lied about the size of their deficits as a percentage of GdP and tried to cover it up by overstating size of their economy so they could overspend more thanthe EU allowed

 

this is their own doing and now they gotta suffer the concequences.

 

In fact thats a lotta countries goin down that road. Im particularly worried about the Japaneese debt ponzy scheme that has defied expectations so far...

 

When that comes tumbling down, its notginna be pretty at all  

[Luc 4,776]

holy mother i just read about them walking out

 

if they default that could distabalize european financial markets and in turn global financial markets  

 

what do they hope to accomplish? Why do they wanna refuse to pay and get one extention after another with few reforms?

 

Greece did this to thenselves... In mid 2000s they even lied about the size of their deficits as a percentage of GdP and tried to cover it up by overstating size of their economy so they could overspend more thanthe EU allowed

 

this is their own doing and now they gotta suffer the concequences.

 

In fact thats a lotta countries goin down that road. Im particularly worried about the Japaneese debt ponzy scheme that has defied expectations so far...

 

When that comes tumbling down, its notginna be pretty at all  

I think Japan should just say that the debt is unsusyainqble and they have to scrap parts of the debt. Would permanently increase interest rates and give more room for business investment.

I really, really hope Greece does not ruin the recovery (again!).

[Woolfsmck 2,763]

http://finance.yahoo.com/video/fast-money-final-trade-gild-215800765.html

 

This is good for the woolfsmck economy