Why other pop artists are still hugely popular, but not Gaga.

[Benji 20,113]

This is why I found your point of view obnoxious (no personal offense meant). You're pulling this cliche argument of regular person being annoyed with a celebrity talking about their problems because "who cares they're rich!". Its no less annoying than Gaga discussing her management woes while buying a new home in Malibu. And at any rate, how she is in interviews has always been an issue, even during her Fame Monster days and even moreso during Born This Way when she was pretending to be a mascot for kindness I mean it was vomit inducing seriously, the difference between then and now being the media has turned on her and we're bombarded with negativity going her way. Back then it was overlooked because at the end of the day she had a dope point of view, media coverage was mostly positive, and her songs were on the radio. The average top 40 consumer just eats what is fed to them and Katy Perry and Taylor Swift are jammed down their throats (some against their will) and all they hear about Gaga is how shes over. Now, im not saying Gaga isn't to take responsibility because she is and for a myriad of reasons. But the media is as well. Popularity in pop music, particularly for females, relies heavily on what kind of media coverage they receive and how the public is being persuaded to think. Gaga fell out of good graces and rebelled all the way down to where she is now. Im not victimizing her because I could go on a tangent in regards to my negative opinions which would make for a whole other discussion but I just don't agree with how you perceive things.

 

This is what I'm talking about though, the (let's be honest) half-assed rebellion wasn't called for. Wooh someone was sick on her whilst she screamed "F*ck you pop music, this is my average pop album." It's honestly not surprising the world turned against her. You can't compare Gaga to Katy or Taylor when it comes to likeability because both of them are not changing their persona every second, they consistently come across as genuine and/or light-hearted fun however Gaga has always been fairly hard to understand (especially pre-BTW). It's much easier to listen to someone when they're a likeable person, I mean Katy has never said anything to personally annoy me whilst Gaga's own remarks and opinions have wound me up the wall regarding some issues such as her old stance on feminism etc. I think we as fanbase like to paint over some of Gaga's unlikeable aspects because on reflection she has quite a few.

 

Gaga divides people however she was just plain unlikeable this era due to her own presentation.

[tiffa 169]

Gaga isn't fit to a specific mold and isn't necessarily "kid friendly" to most parents. They prefer Katy Perry or Taylor Swift, regardless what we adults may interpret the music. Kids cannot because it's very subtle. Gaga is more in your face, daring and less conventional. She grinds some people's gears. She is more "offensive" to certain people. And then you have those whom misunderstand her. They don't get what she's about, or they do not find her genuine. There are many reasons why Gaga may not be as "popular" today. In the long run, she is going to make the most impact. Her success will be commended and rewarded later in life. 

 

People also have this perception of Pop music and what is should be. Gaga is constantly trying to change that and open peoples minds to what Pop music could ALSO be. 

 

If she continues doing as she has, she will surely become a "legend."

[Benji 20,113]

I think she's heading in the right direction right now, no need to be worried. 

 

Despite everything I've said, this too!

 

Seeing her talk positively and having more of a buzz is definitely refreshing!

[Benji 20,113]

And then you have those whom misunderstand her. They don't get what she's about, or they do not find her genuine.

 

No shade to Gags but looking back on what she's said through-out her career, do you believe she's honestly been genuine for any length of time outside of the occasional moment on tour or on Twitter yet? Its not a bad thing but she's always contradicting previous statements she's made so I feel like it's quite easy to misunderstand her and feel like she's never genuine because it does actually feel like a majority of what comes out of her mouth is a façade.

 

*Clarifying I love her somewhat poker face ( ) but it's quite easy to see her in a negative light if you only catch glimpses of her here and there.

[blacklistedd 599]

This is what I'm talking about though, the (let's be honest) half-assed rebellion wasn't called for. Wooh someone was sick on her whilst she screamed "F*ck you pop music, this is my average pop album." It's honestly not surprising the world turned against her. You can't compare Gaga to Katy or Taylor when it comes to likeability because both of them are not changing their persona every second, they consistently come across as genuine and/or light-hearted fun however Gaga has always been fairly hard to understand (especially pre-BTW). It's much easier to listen to someone when they're a likeable person, I mean Katy has never said anything to personally annoy me whilst Gaga's own remarks and opinions have wound me up the wall regarding some issues such as her old stance on feminism etc. I think we as fanbase like to paint over some of Gaga's unlikeable aspects because on reflection she has quite a few.

 

Gaga divides people however she was just plain unlikeable this era due to her own presentation.

 

I'm sorry but neither Katy or Taylor come across as genuine, light hearted sure. And yes, its easier to like someone when they are light hearted. Gaga comes with weight whether it be substantial or not. Im not painting over anything though, I just didn't agree with what you were saying is the reason people find her unlikable. Its the fact that people have always found her to be full of herself and in a lot of ways she has displayed that kind of arrogance and in her own words "narcissism" but at the end of the day (with Madonna and Rihanna as key examples) being cold, narcissistic, and arrogant doesn't make you inaccessible. Gagas problem isn't her personality, its been overlooked in the past and it still can be. The difference between then and now being a fusion of different things, theres not one singular issue. Its how shes marketed, the fact that she now does contrary for contrarys sake instead of creating organically, the media pushing an anti-gaga agenda on the consuming public...I mean I can go on. All of this is b/s though really. At the end of the day all she needs to do is make a solid and cool and focused pop record thats a little more mature thematically (and by that I mean axing the juvenile lyricism and/or concepts of songs like Hair, Bad Kids, and MANiCURE) and all of this nonsense we're discussing will never have mattered. And imo she obviously can but whether or not she will is what we're all waiting for.

 

And to be honest I completely disagree with you saying she was unlikable this era specifically, I think she was much worse during the Born This Way era and I don't think im the only person that would think so. Of course pop stans do have a habit of romanticizing the past to make the present seem worse.

No shade to Gags but looking back on what she's said through-out her career, do you believe she's honestly been genuine for any length of time outside of the occasional moment on tour or on Twitter yet? Its not a bad thing but she's always contradicting previous statements she's made so I feel like it's quite easy to misunderstand her and feel like she's never genuine because it does actually feel like a majority of what comes out of her mouth is a façade.

 

*Clarifying I love her somewhat poker face ( ) but it's quite easy to see her in a negative light if you only catch glimpses of her hear and there.

 

To be honest I find a lot of her interviews to be ingenuine but there are also quite a few where she really comes through and she can be very endearing. The more you watch the more you can tell the difference unless you're keeping yourself from it. To me it makes her somewhat of an enigmatic figure, I say that lightly.

[Benji 20,113]

I'm sorry but neither Katy or Taylor come across as genuine, light hearted sure. And yes, its easier to like someone when they are light hearted. Gaga comes with weight whether it be substantial or not. Im not painting over anything though, I just didn't agree with what you were saying is the reason people find her unlikable. Its the fact that people have always found her to be full of herself and in a lot of ways she has displayed that kind of arrogance and in her own words "narcissism" but at the end of the day (with Madonna and Rihanna as key examples) being cold, narcissistic, and arrogant doesn't make you inaccessible. Gagas problem isn't her personality, its been overlooked in the past and it still can be. The difference between then and now being a fusion of different things, theres not one singular issue. Its how shes marketed, the fact that she now does contrary for contrarys sake instead of creating organically, the media pushing an anti-gaga agenda on the consuming public...I mean I can go on. All of this is b/s though really. At the end of the day all she needs to do is make a solid and cool and focused pop record thats a little more mature thematically (and by that I mean axing the juvenile lyricism and/or concepts of songs like Hair, Bad Kids, and MANiCURE).

 

And to be honest I completely disagree with you saying she was unlikable this era specifically, I think she was much worse during the Born This Way era and I don't think im the only person that would think so. Of course pop stans do have a habit of romanticizing the past to make the present seem worse.

 

You've basically rephrased my last point, it's down to promotion. I don't see how her sitting and moaning is good promotion for her "fun pop" album

 

I'm not romanticising the BTW era, it was cheesy as hell but she was commended for her LGBT work protectiveness. Yes she was accused of using the gays and doing this and that BUT she was generally seen as a good influence outside of heavy religious areas.

 

Also I would appreciate if you would stop taking little swipes at me when we're discussing things? You appear to have a slight narcissistic streak too but it's wearing thin with the petty condescending remarks. You should be able to have a discussion without them.

 

To be honest I find a lot of her interviews to be ingenuine but there are also quite a few where she really comes through and she can be very endearing. The more you watch the more you can tell the difference unless you're keeping yourself from it. To me it makes her somewhat of an enigmatic figure, I say that lightly.

 

Hmm I disagree, I personally feel like she looks more like a duck except she wasn't very good at hiding the desperate paddling under the water to stop her drowning. I feel like she lost any chance of being an enigma after the Born This Way era, which is kind of annoying as she was a lot more interesting pre-btw but that's another comment made in hindsight.

[blacklistedd 599]

You've basically rephrased my last point, it's down to promotion. I don't see how her sitting and moaning is good promotion for her "fun pop" album

 

I'm not romanticising the BTW era, it was cheesy as hell but she was commended for her LGBT work protectiveness. Yes she was accused of using the gays and doing this and that BUT she was generally seen as a good influence outside of heavy religious areas.

 

Also I would appreciate if you would stop taking little swipes at me when we're discussing things? You appear to have a slight narcissistic streak too but it's wearing thin with the petty condescending remarks. You should be able to have a discussion without them.

 

 

Hmm I disagree, I personally feel like she looks more like a duck except she wasn't very good at hiding the desperate paddling under the water to stop her drowning. I feel like she lost any chance of being an enigma after the Born This Way era, which is kind of annoying as she was a lot more interesting pre-btw but that's another comment made in hindsight.

 

No, because what you're claiming was her promotion was her b---hing about management but that was not her promotion. That only began at the second single. I didn't see her initial promo as whining or moaning. I thought that "Lady Gaga Is Over" promo video was kind of brilliant and clever. Initially, the idea seemed to be her putting stan culture and what social media and the internet has done to the integrity of popular artists on blast and I thought that concept was pretty ****ing dope and no one else was bothering to approach it but her. It was her execution of that concept that ultimately didnt come to fruition in an interesting or articulate way and I found that disappointing. The drippiness in regards to her management only began once it was revealed that Troy and her parted ways and she started trying to pin ho hum reception on having stressful management which I found wishy washy because she wasn't totally standing by her work and seemingly putting a lot of blame on Troy (or his team) for sullying her vision, even if it was the case. But to me even though she was being drippy she wasnt really being fake, I mean that intro to the monster ball where shes sitting in her dressing room with fake tears streaming down her face is ****ing fake. Her going on ellen and talking about bullying was fake. Her annoyingly expressing grief over management wasn't fake it just (imo) was her oversharing and being drippy and even if she was being honest it wasnt something anyone wanted or needed to hear. Im not one to talk because I dont create, but I assume she should've channeled all of that energy into making something better than she did but what we got is what we got and it wasn't even bad it just wasnt what I or everyone else wanted it to be. It was a fine enough pop album from a burnt out hard working pop star that should've (from a viable radio candy perspective) kept her afloat but she already had odds working against her and she kind of got pressed from all that weight. It is what it is.

 

And I wasn't really saying she is enigmatic I was just saying shes often so ingenuine in interviews that when her real self obviously comes through I find her compelling, so I can see where in a way she still carries some enigmatic qualities. So I guess I disagree that you're saying shes completely lost enigma. I just think people have settled to believe her ingenuity is who she really is because shes constantly saying its who she really is even though it obviously isnt and I dont blame them. This is probably a confusing paragraph to read.

[bing 0]

[Benji 20,113]

No, because what you're claiming was her promotion was her b---hing about management but that was not her promotion. That only began at the second single. I didn't see her initial promo as whining or moaning. I thought that "Lady Gaga Is Over" promo video was kind of brilliant and clever. Initially, the idea seemed to be her putting stan culture and what social media and the internet has done to the integrity of popular artists on blast and I thought that concept was pretty ****ing dope and no one else was bothering to approach it but her. It was her execution of that concept that ultimately didnt come to fruition in an interesting or articulate way and I found that disappointing. The drippiness in regards to her management only began once it was revealed that Troy and her parted ways and she started trying to pin ho hum reception on having stressful management which I found wishy washy because she wasn't totally standing by her work and seemingly putting a lot of blame on Troy (or his team) for sullying her vision, even if it was the case. But to me even though she was being drippy she wasnt really being fake, I mean that intro to the monster ball where shes sitting in her dressing room with fake tears streaming down her face is ****ing fake. Her going on ellen and talking about bullying was fake. Her annoyingly expressing grief over management wasn't fake it just (imo) was her oversharing and being drippy and even if she was being honest it wasnt something anyone wanted or needed to hear. Im not one to talk because I dont create, but I assume she should've channeled all of that energy into making something better than she did but what we got is what we got and it wasn't even bad it just wasnt what I or everyone else wanted it to be. It was a fine enough pop album from a burnt out hard working pop star that should've (from a viable radio candy perspective) kept her afloat but she already had odds working against her and she kind of got pressed from all that weight. It is what it is.

And I wasn't really saying she is enigmatic I was just saying shes often so ingenuine in interviews that when her real self obviously comes through I find her compelling, so I can see where in a way she still carries some enigmatic qualities. So I guess I disagree that you're saying shes completely lost enigma. I just think people have settled to believe her ingenuity is who she really is because shes constantly saying its who she really is even though it obviously isnt and I dont blame them. This is probably a confusing paragraph to read.

Not sure if you seen my first post but I actually listed several of my beliefs regarding her drop in success and went on to explain how I personally didn't like the blaming of management etc, I haven't once purely blamed the decline on that one factor alone. It was merely a point of not only was she unrelatable, the 'problems' she had were frankly unrelatable and boring to me.

I agree that the "Lady Gaga is over" video was an interesting idea and I was also disapointed it didn't get a real chance to flourish further however we shortly then moved onto the Venus/Do What U Want fiasco which ultimatly ended in how first the media, people and finally her own team mistreat her. The Applause era was overshadowed quickly with further in-fighting and blaming. No one was really interested in her "troubles" regarding promotions, totally agree it felt like oversharing and I believe she allowed it to overshadow what could have been a prety decent era if she decided to really do something about the problems.

I understand what you're saying but I still believe she's lost the ground to be seen as an enigma unless she goes through a complete personallity change for the next album cycle. She's overshared to the point we can see her weak points and stunts like the SXSW swine performance have gone from being somewhat arguably artistic to just plain attention seeking. There's always been an element of a craving of attention however I don't believe she will ever be able to pass off these antics as "art" easily, if at all in the future.

(swapped to mobile as it's getting late here so excuse any mistypings or a lack of reply haha)

[tiffa 169]

No shade to Gags but looking back on what she's said through-out her career, do you believe she's honestly been genuine for any length of time outside of the occasional moment on tour or on Twitter yet? Its not a bad thing but she's always contradicting previous statements she's made so I feel like it's quite easy to misunderstand her and feel like she's never genuine because it does actually feel like a majority of what comes out of her mouth is a façade.

 

*Clarifying I love her somewhat poker face ( ) but it's quite easy to see her in a negative light if you only catch glimpses of her here and there.

 

I totally get what you're saying. I believe this can only be seen by those who pay close attention to her. Most people just automatically assume she's not genuine and that it's all a gimmick for money. A lot of rich people start foundations because it's sort of an investment to make even more money. This could be another reason people may assume her "BTW Foundation" is also another gimmick. 

 

THAT ASIDE and what ONE may think... from a FAN spectacle, I do see where she consistently contradicts herself. She has her entire career on multiple occasions (even on unrelated circumstances). Sometimes I do question her, but I must because I love her so much and can be so easily misguided or blinded. She preaches about equality, acceptance and anti-bullying but a lot of her favorites bully and openly do it on Twitter, at her hotel and at shows. It can clearly be seen. I've written letters about it. I know she's received at least one of them. It upsets me to think she doesn't care about the majority of the fan base being bullied, the portion that gets left unnoticed because she's too busy kissing their asses. Wow - that sounds harsh and by all means, I don't mean for it to. It's just a touchy subject for me because of what she preaches vs who she confides in or gives all her attention to. It contradicts everything she says and I don't think she realizes the negative impact this has had on fans who truly pay attention. Fans see this and are only right to question whether or not she is genuine.

 

She has stopped fights at shows and continues to preach about self-love, acceptance and equality. She hasn't said or done anything entirely wrong and if you think about it, she has done more good than bad on the wider spectrum of things. This is what I continue to remind myself when I think of all the things about her that I dislike. 

 

"Start the music. Stop the drama." -- and then her comments about Katy Perry and shady comments toward Madonna fans. And not that you WANT TO or SHOULD pay attention to Perez, he has said she poses as fans (under a few accounts) fueling these dramas or just stalking the fans. Gaga is VERY in-tuned to the fans and knows more than we think she does.. this is why I partially believe this, even if she doesn't do it the fuel drama. I can't see her doing that.

 

But that said.. if she truly watches and fans and knows more than we know (she has said this herself even), how come she "doesn't know" about the bullies she continuously shows love for? I'm confused.

 

There are a lot of us who are just as dedicated but genuinely kind to one another. We want to help and support each other, and "fix" the fan base... to truly bring us back together again. This is online, at shows and in real life... but we get left unnoticed. I don't care if I'm noticed at all. I'm just saying, in general. It would truly support her message, that's for sure.

 

I could write an essay... one much longer than this one, going into detail about her message vs actions.

[Lady Palutena 3,147]

The General Public doesn't get her. They never did, even in the Fame Era there were detractors. "What's with the lightning bolt or the hoodie?" "Why is she singing about Gambling?" The list goes on even into the "beloved" Fame Monster Era.

It really urks me that people always say Gaga F-ed up with Born This Way and her "gay" message and era, yet Gaga has always been very vocal about her gay activism and self-love message. She began in Gay Bars, hello???

And Gaga is just not a basic pop star, she never was and won't ever be (fingers crossed). She does write about love and totally relatable subjects but a lot of it is in her metaphors. And the GP doesn't want or get them. They want lyrics that are "basic".

I love her for her unconventional ways of making music and her dedication. Her interaction and admiration for her fanbase also is something uncontested.

In the long run she'll be remembered whether they like it or not.

[blacklistedd 599]

Not sure if you seen my first post but I actually listed several of my beliefs regarding her drop in success and went on to explain how I personally didn't like the blaming of management etc, I haven't once purely blamed the decline on that one factor alone. It was merely a point of bot only was she unrelatable, the 'problems' she had were frankly unrelatable and boring to me.

I agree that the "Lady Gaga is over" video was an interesting idea and I was also disapointed it didn't get a real chance to flourish further however we shortly then moved onto the Venus/Do What U Want fiasco which ultimatly ended in how first the media, people and finally her own team mistreat her. The Applause era was overshadowed quickly with further in-fighting and blaming. No one was really interested in her "troubles" regarding promotions, totally agree it felt like oversharing and I believe she allowed it to overshadow what could have been a prety decent era if she decided to really do something about the problems.

I understand what you're saying but I still believe she's lost the ground to be seen as an enigma unless she goes through a complete personallity change for the next album cycle. She's overshared to the point we can see her weak points and stunts like the SXSW swine performance have gone from being somewhat arguably artistic to just plain attention seeking. There's always been an element of a craving of attention however I don't believe she will ever easily be able to pass off these antics as "art" easily, if at all in the future.

 

Yes, I already said I didn't care for how she handled her management woes and what not but you were claiming that was a major factor as to her decline in popularity and ultimately im saying with Gaga likability isnt a major factor because shes never been a particularly all around likable figure. Shes always had detractors theyve just gotten louder in recent years and are no longer overpowered by the strength of her delivery. Her execution is faulty and so was the concept of this album. You claim likability, I disagreed. And I also disagreed with why you were annoyed with her discussing her woes. You were saying "shes rich and I work hard I dont want to hear her complain". Thats not what im saying at all. Its not because shes rich or because im lower class, its because shes a major pop star and I dont want to see her unravel and subsequently weaken her output which is what happened. Its nothing to do with privilege.

 

I dont think the era was overshadowed with her whining though, at all. I think it was hardly noticed except by stans. What did overshadow the era were the constant screams from the media about how over she is because she didn't "beat" Katy Perrys single or because of the lie made up about how much the label put into her era. Or people like Wendy and Perez taking clear misinformation and reporting it as truth to consumers who don't bother finding the truth. The majority of critiques for the record weren't even critiques of the music but of her celebrity by a lot of journalists who often clearly made up their minds about this album before they even bothered to be fully subjective. Then on her end, she made an average album that still has her Gaga stamp but it wasn't compelling. Like I said, she had a porous foundation of a concept and thus her execution was underwhelming (not to say she didnt have some good performances this era, I thought Do What U Want on Alan Carr was ****ing dope as well as ARTPOP on Jimmy Fallon).

 

Like I said I think overall the album deserved mixed reception, for the lofty way she intended on marketing it as an artistic experiment but ultimately it was a just average gaga release, but I think people really intended on persuading everyone to believe this was it for her and shes lost it. I think to be comparative, a lot of people wanted this to be her Bionic era but it wasn't that much of a train wreck because ultimately it didnt deserve to be.

[Benji 20,113]

I totally get what you're saying. I believe this can only be seen by those who pay close attention to her. Most people just automatically assume she's not genuine and that it's all a gimmick for money. A lot of rich people start foundations because it's sort of an investment to make even more money. This could be another reason people may assume her "BTW Foundation" is also another gimmick.

THAT ASIDE and what ONE may think... from a FAN spectacle, I do see where she consistently contradicts herself. She has her entire career on multiple occasions (even on unrelated circumstances). Sometimes I do question her, but I must because I love her so much and can be so easily misguided or blinded. She preaches about equality, acceptance and anti-bullying but a lot of her favorites bully and openly do it on Twitter, at her hotel and at shows. It can clearly be seen. I've written letters about it. I know she's received at least one of them. It upsets me to think she doesn't care about the majority of the fan base being bullied, the portion that gets left unnoticed because she's too busy kissing their asses. Wow - that sounds harsh and by all means, I don't mean for it to. It's just a touchy subject for me because of what she preaches vs who she confides in or gives all her attention to. It contradicts everything she says and I don't think she realizes the negative impact this has had on fans who truly pay attention. Fans see this and are only right to question whether or not she is genuine.

She has stopped fights at shows and continues to preach about self-love, acceptance and equality. She hasn't said or done anything entirely wrong and if you think about it, she has done more good than bad on the wider spectrum of things. This is what I continue to remind myself when I think of all the things about her that I dislike.

"Start the music. Stop the drama." -- and then her comments about Katy Perry and shady comments toward Madonna fans. And not that you WANT TO or SHOULD pay attention to Perez, he has said she poses as fans (under a few accounts) fueling these dramas or just stalking the fans. Gaga is VERY in-tuned to the fans and knows more than we think she does.. this is why I partially believe this, even if she doesn't do it the fuel drama. I can't see her doing that.

But that said.. if she truly watches and fans and knows more than we know (she has said this herself even), how come she "doesn't know" about the bullies she continuously shows love for? I'm confused.

There are a lot of us who are just as dedicated but genuinely kind to one another. We want to help and support each other, and "fix" the fan base... to truly bring us back together again. This is online, at shows and in real life... but we get left unnoticed. I don't care if I'm noticed at all. I'm just saying, in general. It would truly support her message, that's for sure.

I could write an essay... one much longer than this one, going into detail about her message vs actions.

I agree 110% and really wish I wasn't in bed already so I could write a much longer response but I'm glad to actually see a moderator being open about this! I've never understood her closeness to some of these fans, especially as some are fairly notorious for ill behaviour to other fans and people in general but it is her choice who she surrounds herself with! I suppose we all forget this is the girl who was dancing in skimpy two pieces on the night club scene and no matter what she preaches she is still an individual with sometimes quite absurd views and values.

I will admit, I fear the future as her previous team kept her professional to a point, it was only as the reigns were being slowly taken off that issues began to visibly arise. I obviously have hope otherwise I wouldn't be here and I still believe in her but her actions have become a lot more questionable to me over the last couple of years and I'm starting to doubt what she is capable of regarding work ethic, emotional strain and actual health, both physical and mental.

[tiffa 169]

I wish people would stop saying that the "fail" of the ARTPOP era was Gaga's fault. I truly believe her complaints (or "informant" note) about her management and why it didn't do so well was true. It wasn't a traditional Pop album, people weren't supporting her and she was living a very low point in her life. She has said this multiple times, and I believe her. 

 

The original artRAVE was paid for all by her - the food, drinks, show, etc. It was a party for friends and fans who were exclusively invited. She paid for it all. She truly believed in ARTPOP. 

 

"Lady Gaga is over" was brilliant. I loved it. It was a mockery of the media. Gaga told us on LittleMonsters over and over that she wanted this album to be for the fans. She wanted fans to spread the news amongst one another. She didn't want to use the media. This was her plan... at first.

 

She had SO many things planned for this era. As much of a "flop" the app was, it was going to be extraordinary. I just know it would have been. 

 

She built that stage on her own. No one wanted to fund the tour either. It was called the 'artRAVE' because she wanted to bring ART and POP together. She wanted to bring the Koons statues on tour, or at least the big Gaga Koons statue on the ARTPOP cover. 1). It would be even more expensive and 2). Some idiots vandalized the Koons statues at the original artRAVE.

 

She wanted to use this era to truly bring the fans together and find new ways for fans to communicate (i.e.: LittleMonsters.com). She had this whole plan for what she wanted the site to be and she continues to be in direct contact with BackPlane.

 

There were probably other ideas she wanted for this era that she simply could not complete due to funding, time and poor management. Troy Carter owned Atom Factory so a lot of plans they had through there were abolished. 

 

I love her so much and I just don't want this to go unnoticed. I'm sick of people saying Gaga's complaining was whining, a gimmick or a woe is me cry.

[Benji 20,113]

Yes, I already said I didn't care for how she handled her management woes and what not but you were claiming that was a major factor as to her decline in popularity and ultimately im saying with Gaga likability isnt a major factor because shes never been a particularly all around likable figure. Shes always had detractors theyve just gotten louder in recent years and are no longer overpowered by the strength of her delivery. Her execution is faulty and so was the concept of this album. You claim likability, I disagreed. And I also disagreed with why you were annoyed with her discussing her woes. You were saying "shes rich and I work hard I dont want to hear her complain". Thats not what im saying at all. Its not because shes rich or because im lower class, its because shes a major pop star and I dont want to see her unravel and subsequently weaken her output which is what happened. Its nothing to do with privilege.

I dont think the era was overshadowed with her whining though, at all. I think it was hardly noticed except by stans. What did overshadow the era were the constant screams from the media about how over she is because she didn't "beat" Katy Perrys single or because of the lie made up about how much the label put into her era. Or people like Wendy and Perez taking clear misinformation and reporting it as truth to consumers who don't bother finding the truth. The majority of critiques for the record weren't even critiques of the music but of her celebrity by a lot of journalists who often clearly made up their minds about this album before they even bothered to be fully subjective. Then on her end, she made an average album that still has her Gaga stamp but it wasn't compelling. Like I said, she had a porous foundation of a concept and thus her execution was underwhelming (not to say she didnt have some good performances this era, I thought Do What U Want on Alan Carr was ****ing dope as well as ARTPOP on Jimmy Fallon).

Like I said I think overall the album deserved mixed reception, for the lofty way she intended on marketing it as an artistic experiment but ultimately it was a just average gaga release, but I think people really intended on persuading everyone to believe this was it for her and shes lost it. I think to be comparative, a lot of people wanted this to be her Bionic era but it wasn't that much of a train wreck because ultimately it didnt deserve to be.

If I recall correctly I never stated that was the major downfall, you simply continued to poke and prod at my point for more information? Of course if that's how it came across and it's bothered you this much then I apologize, that wasn't my intention.

I agree once again and believe I previously stated, her unlikeable points haven't been overshadowed by high quality performances etc etc

Yes, once again that is a factor however she handled the situation badly by responding to criticism and encouraging an almost censoring of negative voices. Of course that got blown out of major proportion but she didn't clarify to the fans who then decided to go on a rampage with her message what she actually intended. That ultimatly caused some division in the fanbase and allowed some to be influenced futher by less positive media surrounding her. She ultimatly exposed her weaknesses and refused to really do much damage control when people began to abuse those weaknesses. That's just regarding the fanbase really, I doubt the public was influenced by her previous "POK" message if you exclude various media using that exposed weak point to push her.