BornSimon 4,792 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 I've never bought into that bull**** line of thinking. Like, these people are the ones at risk. These people who are influenced easily are oftentimes isolated and DON'T have the support system they need to be strong. You can't place the blame on them. Furthermore, Gaga has put herself in a strange position with her fans. She's the one who has had bus tours about mental health and created an anti-bullying organization. She's put herself in an awkward position where she's both a role model and figurehead for being healthy but also a provocative and controversial artist who explores potentially corrupting topics and themes. You can't say that those two roles don't overlap in any way. You can't mix Gaga's public persona and artistry with the message she sends across through her charity and her speeches. If these fans are influenced negatively by her then it's really ****ing weird because they know her and they know evereything she stands for, they can't just go and think "Oh, great, she's promoting eating disorders now" when she's been a fantastic spokesperson for thousands of people for years now. What Gaga does as an artist has nothing to do with us, we choose to like it and if we don't, we can look away. Also, this Millie woman knows what she's doing, she's harming no one but herself. And if she thinks what she makes is art, then she has every right to believe so, we can agree or disagree, of course, but not STATE the opposite as if it was FACT. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ladey Gagz 2,512 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 It's like if someone began cutting themselves and dripping blood on a canvas and calling it art. Art doesn't exist just because someone calls it art. Art is a form of expression, but expression shouldn't come from hurting yourself. It should come from creativity and your mind/experience. Forcing herself to vomit is affecting her health. There's no way to prevent it That is totally a sophism comparing those two extremely different situations Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poker 3,634 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Imagine if people told Marina to stop because other people would start cutting themselves? Let's not censor art. Kindness rules all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willy Wonka 4 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 You can't mix Gaga's public persona and artistry with the message she sends across through her charity and her speeches. If these fans are influenced negatively by her then it's really ****ing weird because they know her and they know evereything she stands for, they can't just go and think "Oh, great, she's promoting eating disorders now" when she's been a fantastic spokesperson for thousands of people for years now. What Gaga does as an artist has nothing to do with us, we choose to like it and if we don't, we can look away. But you and I are both coming from the perspective of people with strong personalities and the rationality to differentiate between Gaga as a performer and Gaga as a person. Not everyone has the same critical thinking abilities, especially at younger ages. I'm willing to come out as someone who was very impressionable during middle school and the beginning of high school. I obviously can't be certain what impression I would have gotten from that performance, but it would have been some impression. And honestly, I don't know who has been saying that she's "promoting" eating disorders, but they're either being bombastic or equating glamorization to promotion. I don't think she's saying "yeah you should all have eating disorders its cool" at all. It couldn't be further from the truth. But glamorization? Yeah. I mean, it literally fits the dictionary definition. Imagine if people told Marina to stop because other people would start cutting themselves? Let's not censor art. Marina never called herself a 'youth ambassador' either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poker 3,634 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 I don't understand why people are so shocked now. She did this in 2010. The same thing. Mille puking colors on her. During the WHOLE tour. On huge screens for entire arenas and stadiums. Why is everyone talking about this now? Kindness rules all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adakam 2 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 it has nothing to do with a superiority complex. anyone who knows me knows that i have a deep hatred for superiority complexes, but that's besides the point. i'm just not going to waste my time engaging in a dialogue when you're clearly not attempting to be or open to being an objective and critical observer. No need to be when I lived bulimia for long enough to know that vomit is just the transport for bulimia, not the reason or the inspiration oh and the other part, tell your "you are the kind of stan that makes us look bad/rock bottom of stanning" bs to a therapist and lets see how he defines it then Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey1 0 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 The act of forceful vomiting does not make one have bulimia. The end. When I was a child and I mean like 10 and under and was terrified of going to school, I would imagine eating the most disgusting food I could think of, and I'd sit there for a good ten minutes thinking about how gross it was, maybe it was rotten fish or something, and eventually I would vomit and be sent home. Did I do it often? No, but it was possible, and it didn't involve shoving my hand down my throat or any eating disorder. People can do anything they want with their bodies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaronyoji 2,007 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 i feel like its criticized so hard, especially on the "whether its art" discussion, because it wasnt pretty or pleasant to watch. society has condensed art into accepting only whats pretty and comfortable to see, like a michelangelo statue of a rembrandt or a painting of flowers or a field of ****ing cows. just because its ugly doesnt make invalidate it as art. art can sometimes be really pretty and light, and sometimes its raw, candid, and is suppose to make you uncomfortable or question yourself. and if it does seem to be glamorizing bulimia simply because millie was dressed in a hot get up, looked pretty (imo) and had long seductive hair, i feel it was only to emphasize the theme of the performance: rape. the idea that something s-xual or s-xy is tarnished and soiled by the experience. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elizabeth 450 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Her intention was not to promot bulimia though. It completely valid for people to have criticisms of her performance, but I doubt those 'criticisms' expressed by some (ie the likes of Perez) are well researched as come from a place of hatred. Many are looking at this performance from only one angle she there's multiple different interpretations to be taken from it. She keeps saying that it's her because it is her. There's lots of Gaga performances/videos ect that make people feel uncomfortable in the same way that the Swine performance did, this is nothing new for Gaga, it's not uncharted territory. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CroatiaGeisha 19 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Just because it's "disgusting" and unnatural doesn't mean it can't serve an artistic or meaningful purpose to Gaga/others, but at the same time, that also doesn't mean it's justified in being socially responsible. I'm pretty sure there were some bulimics out there who were motivated by it... (no idea how many) But at the same time, what if Gaga had put on a classic Katy Perry performance? You know, one with candy land/junk food art themes and conventionally thin and s-xy dancers? I would think that would think that would play a bigger role in advocating bulimia than an over-the-top grotesque and insane performance, but I could be wrong. People freaked out because the Swine performance actually showed the puking, but the context is also worth considering. Gaga is stuck with this controversy because her self-expression as a performance artist sometimes comes into conflict with the responsibilities she took on when she joined the youth-empowerment cause. On the other hand, if she censored herself to death she wouldn't stay true to her artistry. There is no black or white answer here, she needs to do the balancing herself. This would make for a great interview question for somebody to ask, really would like to hear her talk about this. :) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaronyoji 2,007 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 I don't understand why people are so shocked now. She did this in 2010. The same thing. Mille puking colors on her. During the WHOLE tour. On huge screens for entire arenas and stadiums. Why is everyone talking about this now? i feel like people didnt have a problem with it back then because she looked pretty, was dolled up, it was the fame monster era, the vomit looked fake and animated, so that artifice allowed fans to digest it easier, but now when its raw, candid, and shes performing swine, a song about rape, and not the chart topping bad romance, people view it as disgusting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willy Wonka 4 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 No need to be when I lived bulimia for long enough to know that vomit is just the transport for bulimia, not the reason or the inspiration oh and the other part, tell your "you are the kind of stan that makes us look bad/rock bottom of stanning" bs to a therapist and lets see how he defines it then I'm so sorry that you've had to deal with bulimia, but your experience with bulimia does not define everyone's experience with bulimia. I think it's important to try and always be an objective and critical observer. When thinking about something, I try and identify every lens that I'm viewing the subject with. Looking at this performance, I'm looking at it as someone who is a fan of Gaga, who appreciates art, who appreciates freedom of expression, who has struggled with body image, who has been impacted by the glamorization of mental illness, who has had friends suffer with bulimia... I try and identify everything that impacts the way in which I interpret the subject. It's essentially the focus of my major and it's how I approach most things now. On the subject of a superiority complex, you can't diagnose someone with a superiority complex based on a singular interaction. Furthermore, in a clinical context like the one you're supposing, a superiority complex manifests itself in a pattern of actions, which I haven't established. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittIe Monster 155 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 I've been seeing these disturbing images on LM.com of teenagers putting up mock art / purging images, emulating the Swine performance.. I think it's pretty messed up. I think Gaga needs to make a statement speaking against eating disorders & bulimia... it's not okay to be emulating a sick addiction illness. Oh noo.... everything to do with Gaga was fine.. but now that fans are doing this?? OmffGG what are they thinking.. : Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willy Wonka 4 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 and if it does seem to be glamorizing bulimia simply because millie was dressed in a hot get up, looked pretty (imo) and had long seductive hair, i feel it was only to emphasize the theme of the performance: rape. the idea that something s-xual or s-xy is tarnished and soiled by the experience. the glamorization comes from the fact it was part of a successful pop star (arguably an artist)'s commercially funded and live-streamed performance at a music festival where an attractive woman forced herself to regurgitate colorful vomit on said pop star while scissoring said pop star. and then later, when Ruby came out to play violin, the slipperiness of the vomit was a joke. yes, the song was about rape, but the treatment of the vomit was trivialized and glamorized, and that's what I have a problem with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adakam 2 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 I'm so sorry that you've had to deal with bulimia, but your experience with bulimia does not define everyone's experience with bulimia. I think it's important to try and always be an objective and critical observer. When thinking about something, I try and identify every lens that I'm viewing the subject with. Looking at this performance, I'm looking at it as someone who is a fan of Gaga, who appreciates art, who appreciates freedom of expression, who has struggled with body image, who has been impacted by the glamorization of mental illness, who has had friends suffer with bulimia... I try and identify everything that impacts the way in which I interpret the subject. It's essentially the focus of my major and it's how I approach most things now. On the subject of a superiority complex, you can't diagnose someone with a superiority complex based on a singular interaction. Furthermore, in a clinical context like the one you're supposing, a superiority complex manifests itself in a pattern of actions, which I haven't established. ill just add then, that I feel more, hmm, lets say, triggered (kinda gives me the feelings that got me there in the past), everytime I see her (or any other pop star for that matter) use "hot" dancers, with six packs, etc, not with watching her being covered in vomit Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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