The Dead Dance: Song and Video Discussion

[MajorMinus 244]

I loved the camera work here. It is simple, yes, but looks fantastic. A very fun video. Her look is fire.

[Dayman 6,188]

39 minutes ago, Mizu723 said:

Yes, I agree that those shots were not generated by AI as such. The dolls in the video were clearly there, but the animation of several of them was not done by a dedicated visual effects team. And if that were the case (as CarlosLlergo points out in YouTube comments), they clearly used some kind of AI to animate them, which is incredibly lazy and results in something visualy horrible and disappointing, in my opinion.
And it bothers me especially coming from two artists like Burton and Gaga who have contributed so much to art.

It’s not lazy, Using tools like that is quite literally the *only* way to animate a still image in that fashion. The only alternative would require fully 3D modeling, animating, and rendering a doll for the shot, which wouldn’t necessarily look much better even. It also likely would have cost much more and caused greater crunch on the vfx team. Like yes it *could* look good. But the amount of time and money that would have to go into it for that single shot would not have been worth it tbh

[Quartz 12,535]

This over Vanish Into You or How Bad Do You Want Me? I mean it's OK for her standards but some Mayhem tracks are more solid imo

[nATAH 50,024]

just realised this'll be her vmas performance too...

[GoldenNovember 511]

Since I am used to being the one who likes the most disliked songs from many of Gagas albums, I understand now why I adore The Dead Dance so much. Just like with Killah, The Beast, Blade of Grass and How Bad Do U Want Me, it's just another one of those the majority here does not care for, but my ears delight in listening to  I'll keep on dancin' until I'm dead  

[Mizu723 394]

1 hour ago, lastpopicon said:

Tim Burton talks about his dread of AI as an exhibition of his work opens in London:

Burton said he thinks AI is unstoppable, because “once you can do it, people will do it.” But he scoffed when asked if he’d use the technology in this work.

https://apnews.com/article/tim-burton-exhibition-london-e7573131723cd2266de04b90d655a1c7

 

I doubt the video has any AI tbh, going by his past statements. 

I've seen the interview, but it's from 2023 and it's possible that she has since changed her mind. Even so, I've seen comments confirming that a visual effects team was hired, so I want to believe that Burton, Gaga, or their team had nothing to do with it and simply didn't notice the use of AI by the VFX team. But the use of AI, at least in the scene at minute 1:55, is undeniable:
https://x.com/xuzemelo/status/1963283269656461639

[Mizu723 394]

30 minutes ago, Dayman said:

It’s not lazy, Using tools like that is quite literally the *only* way to animate a still image in that fashion. The only alternative would require fully 3D modeling, animating, and rendering a doll for the shot, which wouldn’t necessarily look much better even. It also likely would have cost much more and caused greater crunch on the vfx team. Like yes it *could* look good. But the amount of time and money that would have to go into it for that single shot would not have been worth it tbh

Sorry, but it's incredibly lazy. And it's not just an image, it's a zoom shot where there's movement and smoke in the background. For any professional VFX team, slightly moving the doll's arms and head wouldn't have taken much effort. As far as I'm concerned, the use of AI is not justified (in no case, but even less here).
For example, in the Disease video there are visual effects (at minute 3:03) which, while not perfect, were clearly done by someone dedicated, and I don't think moving the doll in TDD would be any harder than the black liquid in Disease.

[Dayman 6,188]

3 minutes ago, Mizu723 said:

Sorry, but it's incredibly lazy. And it's not just an image, it's a zoom shot where there's movement and smoke in the background. For any professional VFX team, slightly moving the doll's arms and head wouldn't have taken much effort. As far as I'm concerned, the use of AI is not justified (in no case, but even less here).
For example, in the Disease video there are visual effects (at minute 3:03) which, while not perfect, were clearly done by someone dedicated, and I don't think moving the doll in TDD would be any harder than the black liquid in Disease.

Do you work in digital graphics or visual effects? I don’t ask that in a snarky way. I’m just approaching it from an angle having previously worked in graphics. Part of why I left was because of the burnout that comes with the field. The effect for a liquid in the Disease video is a MUCH simpler effect than animating a figure. It’s quite literally not about dedication, but time. This video was only shot in June and had to be ready for release by the time Wednesday came out. The turn around required on that is not an easy one. Multimillion dollar movies can pull it off sure - but they do it at a severe cost to their creative talent. Even the results you see in this music video are likely from a team that worked extremely hard and down to the wire - as that is the standard operation in the industry unfortunately 

[Defmix100 6,404]

18 minutes ago, Mizu723 said:

I've seen the interview, but it's from 2023 and it's possible that she has since changed her mind. Even so, I've seen comments confirming that a visual effects team was hired, so I want to believe that Burton, Gaga, or their team had nothing to do with it and simply didn't notice the use of AI by the VFX team. But the use of AI, at least in the scene at minute 1:55, is undeniable:
https://x.com/xuzemelo/status/1963283269656461639

Yeah I work in vfx for music videos and we are never usually asked which tools/software we use and could use AI unless it's specified that it can't be used or we show them and ask if they're okay with it. Often I'd say the artist ouldn't be aware unless it is purposely mentioned (which I think it should be since people have different stances on it). 

[uglysexy 124]

I'm sorry but the AI bits are incredibly lazy (and ugly). I say this as someone with some experience in photo manipulation and arts. They really only used the animated dolls for a couple of frames, they could have easily taken some doll props, added them to the bunch and animated them with stop motion especially considering Tim ****ing Burton is there. That's like... his thing. And for a couple of frames with generic creepy dolls (and not custom puppets) it wouldn't have taken that much time. Other than that they could have had a person moving the things around and then edited them out of the footage. It would have looked better too because the movements of the dolls would have been realistic. But oh well, lazy is better.

[elegidadedios 2,229]

Just watched the video again. Idk, I certainly agree with some of your takes, but I consider this video to be great because of the place that is shot. Not everybody can have that. I know it isn't by any means her best video and technically it could have been pulled off better, but... She filmed a MV in such a unique cultural spot. That's the whole point of the video, me thinks

[River 117,519]

So AI became the new Covid Vax and every person with 0 knowledge throwing their one cent when nobody asked for that 

[elegidadedios 2,229]

4 minutes ago, elegidadedios said:

Just watched the video again. Idk, I certainly agree with some of your takes, but I consider this video to be great because of the place that is shot. Not everybody can have that. I know it isn't by any means her best video and technically it could have been pulled off better, but... She filmed a MV in such a unique cultural spot. That's the whole point of the video, me thinks

For example, if I think about it, it's kinda underwhelming they filmed the whole video almost in the same spot, even thought they clearly were authorized to filmed during a much restricted and limited period of time - as they should -. And, to be fair, Abracadabra was filmed in the same set. Same goes to DWAS and Disease (don't know if it's actually two slots but you get me). It's just the way music industry works nowadays. Dunno. It's pretty fckn iconic to have a MV in The Island of the Dolls, nevertheless. And that's it

Edited 13 hours ago by elegidadedios

[MajorMinus 244]

4 minutes ago, River said:

So AI became the new Covid Vax and every person with 0 knowledge throwing their one cent when nobody asked for that 

Thank you. All of a sudden everyone has obtained a PhD in AI and thinks they can decipher anything as AI…it’s crazy. As if CGI and VFX don’t exist. Like just because AI is “all the rage” now doesn’t mean everything you see and don’t like is AI…

[Dayman 6,188]

2 minutes ago, River said:

So AI became the new Covid Vax and every person with 0 knowledge throwing their one cent when nobody asked for that 

The level of damage generative AI has done to the public’s view on visual arts is honestly scary. Genuine generative AI will slip under everyone’s radar (look at those fake VMA “promo” pics of Gaga). While any visual that looks *off* regardless of how it was done will be called out as being AI. I never thought I would be happy not working in a creative field anymore…