I don't like the Kpop industry. They are abused.

[blindinghope 216]

Just now, homomart said:

"shinee. super junior. taeyeon. bigbang. exo. bts. monsta x. got7. mamamoo. apink. winner. iu... and i'm not even close to the end? those are literally the biggest artists in kpop at the moment and they're all in their late 20s." This is a literal laundry list of what I was talking about. 

The same could be said for American artists who aren't big at all. Imagine the bullshit they go through. Like....you're still making the kpop industry the ultimate enemy 

[LOVEDRUG 10,763]

2 minutes ago, homomart said:

"shinee. super junior. taeyeon. bigbang. exo. bts. monsta x. got7. mamamoo. apink. winner. iu... and i'm not even close to the end? those are literally the biggest artists in kpop at the moment and they're all in their late 20s." This is a literal laundry list of what I was talking about. 

i was just refuting their point about 'few artists making it into their late 20s', showing them that their point was simply not true. the industry is dominated by artists in their late 20s and 30s, and me responding to their one point does not mean that message is my entire argument.

[Irrelevant 20,282]

Just now, homomart said:

I already explained how I believe both industries deserve criticism but what I've been seeing in this thread is KPop fans invalidating the abuse that other groups have gone through just because their favorite groups haven't experienced it.

if this is about the groups that had members in the late 20's, I will agree that majority of kpop acts don't remain relevant after 30  But they have stated multiple times that they are aware of abuses in the industry, I think it was more about showing that kpop isn't all a mess and that there have been improvements in recent years (e.g. the slave contract law).

[Noah 26,972]

1 minute ago, homomart said:

I already explained how I believe both industries deserve criticism but what I've been seeing in this thread is KPop fans invalidating the abuse that other groups have gone through just because their favorite groups haven't experienced it.

We were talking about creative control in that regard - the suicide and mental health is an issue that we (kpop fans) talk about with eachother, vocally on twitter. We do not think that it‘s non existing because maybe famous or favorite groups of ours do not go through these issues vocally, but I think in general this thread is filled with many claims that always switch when one was debunked or shown with a different opinion. I think the general problem we have with the suicide claims in this thread is that they‘re being used in order to show that the industry is a machine (they‘re being weaponized to prove a point) when the conversation should be about mental health and the stigma in korea in general. It‘s not like only Kpop Entertainment Artists kill themselves - instead its a general problem in Korea (with the 10th highest suicide rate worldwide) so we just think it‘s distasteful to use a statistic like that to talk about the industry as it doesn‘t help or spark any coversation in a general regard but just is being used to ‚prove a point‘ or that someone is right. It is easy to sit here and talk about the bad kpop industry and mental health etc. but in context and with the trauma that Korea went through and how they coped with it and what it did for their culture etc. in general it should not be weaponized to prove just that point. It‘s also something thats thankfully starting to change. Mental health (esp in the last 2 years) has become more and more a topic of conversation in Korea (as it should be) and so we can only hope that it translates through other areas too. 

[Aphasic 4,033]

11 minutes ago, Autumn said:

they're 'manufactured' and 'like machines' suggests they have no creative control. it's a narrative constantly pushed so i'm not surprised that you also think it. they do express their feelings through their music, contrary to what you said in the op, they're not manufactured contrary to what you said in the op.

i'm literally agreeing with you on the argument about abuse, but as always, you used it to push through a bunch of other narratives about being manufactured and having no artistic control.

How can they be honest when being gay is a huge issue in South Korea. There are topics they simply aren't allowed to talk about or put in their music, so yeah, they don't have the freedom other artists have in other places.

https://www.voanews.com/east-asia-pacific/same-sex-couples-excluded-south-koreas-new-definition-families

 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, blindinghope said:

The same could be said for American artists who aren't big at all. Imagine the bullshit they go through. Like....you're still making the kpop industry the ultimate enemy 

This is gonna be a never ending cycle so I'm done responding after this. I believe BOTH industries deserve criticism and massive overhaul. The thread was about the KPop industry which is much more isolated than Hollywood and has it's own issues that should be addressed. I am not demonizing you or the groups for what has happened, but I'm criticizing this weird stance you guys are taking by invalidating the experiences of so many other artists and groups. If this was about Hollywood, I would be making the same points about how manipulative and shady it is.

[SchwineLove 1,374]

42 minutes ago, blindinghope said:

And the American music industry isn't just as bad? Literally. Stop pointing fingers and making one thing the bad thing and shouldn't be listened to. How many rapes do we hear about over here? Shut up. 

I was about to go on rage and lecture about how bad k-pop music industry is and then i read the word "rape" and yeah it kinda make sense. The power abuse, sexual abuse, drug abuse. The West pop industry is not better if not worse...

[Aphasic 4,033]

Just now, Noah said:

We were talking about creative control in that regard - the suicide and mental health is an issue that we (kpop fans) talk about with eachother, vocally on twitter. We do not think that it‘s non existing because maybe famous or favorite groups of ours do not go through these issues vocally, but I think in general this thread is filled with many claims that always switch when one was debunked or shown with a different opinion. I think the general problem we have with the suicide claims in this thread is that they‘re being used in order to show that the industry is a machine (they‘re being weaponized to prove a point) when the conversation should be about mental health and the stigma in korea in general. It‘s not like only Kpop Entertainment Artists kill themselves - instead its a general problem in Korea (with the 10th highest suicide rate worldwide) so we just think it‘s distasteful to use a statistic like that to talk about the industry as it doesn‘t help or spark any coversation in a general regard but just is being used to ‚prove a point‘ or that someone is right. It is easy to sit here and talk about the bad kpop industry and mental health etc. but in context and with the trauma that Korea went through and how they coped with it and what it did for their culture etc. in general it should not be weaponized to prove just that point. It‘s also something thats thankfully starting to change. Mental health (esp in the last 2 years) has become more and more a topic of conversation in Korea (as it should be) and so we can only hope that it translates through other areas too. 

Conversations are good but what else is being done to prevent this issues? 

[Irrelevant 20,282]

not gonna lie everyone here seems to agree that the kpop industry needs severe improvement  as for the american music industry argument, I find that the topic has now shifted more into the kpop industry individually rather than the kpop industry is the worst globally (what the topic originally felt like). so basically this conversation is going in circles  

[LOVEDRUG 10,763]

Just now, Aphasic Top said:

How can they be honest when being gay is a huge issue in South Korea. There are topics they simply aren't allowed to talk about or put in their music, so yeah, they don't have the freedom other artists have in other places.

https://www.voanews.com/east-asia-pacific/same-sex-couples-excluded-south-koreas-new-definition-families

 

there are several openly gay or lgbt korean artists. not as many as in america, but that's because korea is a more conservative country than america. this is changing rapidly. five years ago it would be unthinkable to have a single gay kpop idol. you're focusing on the problems without even pausing to think about the change. it's literally one of the fastest and most liberal societal changes i think i've ever witnessed, and many young people in korea are now supportive of the lgbt community.

my point was that they can be honest, through metaphor and nuance, and there have been many studies of certain kpop songs, examining themes of sexuality and honesty in them. just because they regretably can't yet wear drag on stage or explicitly say that they're gay, it doesn't mean they're dishonest or manufcatured, and this isn't an industry issue, it's a country-wide issue. changing the industry isn't gonna change this.

[Aphasic 4,033]

1 minute ago, homomart said:

This is gonna be a never ending cycle so I'm done responding after this. I believe BOTH industries deserve criticism and massive overhaul. The thread was about the KPop industry which is much more isolated than Hollywood and has it's own issues that should be addressed. I am not demonizing you or the groups for what has happened, but I'm criticizing this weird stance you guys are taking by invalidating the experiences of so many other artists and groups. If this was about Hollywood, I would be making the same points about how manipulative and shady it is.

Hollywood is one everyone's radar. They get more criticism than any other art industry in the world. Everyone looks at every single thing Hollywood does or doesn't do.

[blindinghope 216]

Just now, Autumn said:

there are several openly gay or lgbt korean artists. not as many as in america, but that's because korea is a more conservative country than america. this is changing rapidly. five years ago it would be unthinkable to have a single gay kpop idol. you're focusing on the problems without even pausing to think about the change. it's literally one of the fastest and most liberal societal changes i think i've ever witnessed, and many young people in korea are now supportive of the lgbt community.

my point was that they can be honest, through metaphor and nuance, and there have been many studies of certain kpop songs, examining themes of sexuality and honesty in them. just because they regretably can't yet wear drag on stage or explicitly say that they're gay, it doesn't mean they're dishonest or manufcatured, and this isn't an industry issue, it's a country-wide issue. changing the industry isn't gonna change this.

Yeah. People forget about Holland. There's an openly asexual and aromatic idol. There's a gender fluid idol. Like yeah it's not as common to have people like that in kpop than it is here but they still exist. 

[LOVEDRUG 10,763]

4 minutes ago, homomart said:

This is gonna be a never ending cycle so I'm done responding after this. I believe BOTH industries deserve criticism and massive overhaul. The thread was about the KPop industry which is much more isolated than Hollywood and has it's own issues that should be addressed. I am not demonizing you or the groups for what has happened, but I'm criticizing this weird stance you guys are taking by invalidating the experiences of so many other artists and groups. If this was about Hollywood, I would be making the same points about how manipulative and shady it is.

go make a thread making those points about hollywood then. but you never do. so it's the same continuous cycle of you criticising the kpop industry but not being willing to examine or look at the issues in your own industry. that's the hypocrisy many of us are mad at.

you can say "If this was about Hollywood, I would be making the same points about how manipulative and shady it is" but i never see threads about it. i never see articles about it. practice what you preach.

[LOVEDRUG 10,763]

1 minute ago, blindinghope said:

Yeah. People forget about Holland. There's an openly asexual and aromatic idol. There's a gender fluid idol. Like yeah it's not as common to have people like that in kpop than it is here but they still exist. 

exactly. but they ignore them because they don't fit their point.

[Aphasic 4,033]

1 minute ago, Irrelevant said:

not gonna lie everyone here seems to agree that the kpop industry needs severe improvement  as for the american music industry argument, I find that the topic has now shifted more into the kpop industry individually rather than the kpop industry is the worst globally (what the topic originally felt like). so basically this conversation is going in circles  

Never said Kpop is the worst globally. It's fair to speak up about a certain topic and add to it to improve the whole system. This is not a baseless statement about the music industry in South Korea and of course many countries have similar situations.