Iran admits it shot down Ukranian jetliner

[lego 44,165]

 

 

 

 

 

[Economy 52,851]

8 hours ago, lego said:

 

“We are keeping the oil. I like oil. We’re keeping the oil”. Trump said ISIS was defeated. You honestly believe they have no other interest and they’ll give full control to the governments? Also what are American billion dollars oil companies and contractors doing over there? If you think it’s all conspiracy, why do you think they started all these wars, to bring freedom and democracy? For human rights? No one actually believes that. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If u are correct tho let's say, that makes no sense. He's being an idiot

 

It might have made sense up until 2008 it doesn't make any sense now

[Melech 9,900]

1 hour ago, lego said:

So when USA killed 290 innocent people incl. over 60 children on IA655 plane, not only that wasn’t terrorism (according to you, just a small flaw I guess?) they weren’t punished by any outside forces either and you’re talking about hypocrisy? 

So who actually defended that here 

[Economy 52,851]

5 hours ago, TheQueenEnthusiast said:

Ok uhm... that "And most of you are from countries that colonized and committed genocide across the globe." Is actually true! A lot of GCD users are from the UK, France and the US!...and this is where the "brainwashed" part comes in. To think the US isn't the largest source of genocide and war in the world is nothing but folly. 

NO ONE has committed as much genocide and colonization in the world as the governments of the UK and the US. Our country was literally founded on colonization and genocide. (entire destructions of Native populations). Regarding US and imperialism, Hawaii was a whole territory gained from colonization (the US government abducted the Hawaiian queen and literally invaded the island). What we're doing RIGHT NOW in Puerto Rico is not far from corporate neo-imperialism. My dad's home country? Invaded twice by the US. (Dominican Republic). As were other Latin American countries like...Haiti, Puerto Rico, Cuba, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Grenada, Panama. *Doesn't include US sponsored Coups). Our military went on to pillage, rape, and murder Iraqis (numbers are in the millions) at the start of the 21st century. Let's NOT forget Vietnam 60 years ago. Still can't forget the US invasions of South America though... https://www.kcet.org/shows/link-voices/deportations-assassinations-and-dictator-nations-a-timeline-of-us-intervention-in 

And you really can't look at surface numbers here regarding deaths. How many governments and rebel groups have the US aid that go on to kill innocents? You have to look at who the US aids and each situation, Israel and Palestine, Saudi Arabia - Iran - Yemen situation, etc. 

To say "And most of you are from countries that colonized and committed genocide a cross the globe." Is true... but for you to say in a type of way as if the US isn't the epitome of colonization, imperialism, and death is nothing but a glimpse of American brainwashing. 

Don't forget in 1812 they tried to steal Canada's land too and anex it but they failed.

 

The intent was there and lots of people died too in that war. 

 

Perfect example of another land expansion

 

Although no one from that generation is alive still. When it comes to a Nations current standing I prefer to look back over the last few decades...

 

The US is still bad that way 

[Economy 52,851]

7 hours ago, ItsTommyBitch said:

Some of y'all need to get over this American Exceptionalism b.s, seriously.

Iran has almost 100 million people. They don't respect gay people or women? GASP!? I didnt know that the positions of a government are shared and supported by every person in the country. Someone should really come invade the South because they still hate gays and women down there, hell there are even murderous hate crimes against Trans people and other minorities on a regular basis!

But wait, that would be crazy, because it would mean that innocent people deserve to have their lives taken from them or endlessly destabilized by foreign agents who have no business in their country in the guise of "humanitarianism"  

Agreed but no one said this. We are talking about the government and what the country as a whole has done

 

When I criticize my own Country Canada for being one of the worst major developed Nations for fighting climate change (along with the US and Australia) I'm obviously not talking about the ppl either many who want the Government to do more. When I criticize Canada also for not always being respectful of Aboriginals when it comes to land and resource desputes again I'm not talking about the ppl cuz 80% or more of ppl get angry hearing these things

 

I'm talking about the actions the government has taken and as a result the impact the country as a whole has had on climate change and aboriginal rights as well

 

In the same way when we talk about America's atrocities were talking about the impact of the country as a whole we are not saying Americans as people are bad

 

I think @Faysalaaa and @TheQueenEnthusiast were also going in those same lines not criticizing Americans themselves as in the citizens/people just like many in Iran don't support their Government's atrocities either

 

[lego 44,165]

1 hour ago, Melech said:

So who actually defended that here 

 

You and other person I quoted, whose post you liked, by comparing 2 countries with: “America MAY have flaws, but Iran shot down the plane, full of innocent people, it’s terrorism and they should be punished”. So US army did exactly the same and never apologized, it seems to be small flaw and not terrorism. And no one should punish them for that. The double standards. 

[Woolfsmck 2,763]

2 hours ago, kyanewest said:

Then go live in Iran if US is worse LOL 

Incredible things u read here 

The whole innocent Iranian premise is totally ludacris to me too.

[TheQueenEnthusiast 937]

21 minutes ago, Economy said:

Don't forget in 1812 they tried to steal Canada's land too and anex it but they failed.

 

The intent was there and lots of people died too in that war. 

 

Perfect example of another land expansion

 

Although no one from that generation is alive still. When it comes to a Nations current standing I prefer to look back over the last few decades...

 

The US is still bad that way 

I truly do understand that. People aren't responsible for their grandparents or ancestors at ALL, BUT when people justify said actions & present 'brainwashing'( especially in this age when it's not hard to look ANYTHING up or know exactly what our governments are doing) it's almost unjustifiable yanno?

[TheQueenEnthusiast 937]

Just now, Woolfsmck said:

The whole innocent Iranian premise is totally ludacris to me too.

I don't think anyone is saying Iran is innocent here. But for someone to paint the US as some type of heroic liberator or the good guy here is not realistic by any means.  Don't know if you're getting that point. This isn't about Iranian forgiveness, this is recognizing that this situation could've been avoided. Lives were lost here.

[Woolfsmck 2,763]

9 minutes ago, TheQueenEnthusiast said:

I don't think anyone is saying Iran is innocent here. But for someone to paint the US as some type of heroic liberator or the good guy here is not realistic by any means.  Don't know if you're getting that point. This isn't about Iranian forgiveness, this is recognizing that this situation could've been avoided. Lives were lost here.

Fair enough...

I don't stan Trump ...and agree that us meddle is 'adding' to the problem. 

[Guest]

 

3 hours ago, kyanewest said:

Exactly. Im starting to think some people will defend any non western country to appear not 'racist'. Lets call it how it is, the Middle East is problematic, North Korea is problematic, a lot of african countries are problematic. 

Not to say America doesnt have its faults but lets not be hypocrites. Iran just killed 100 innocent people on a plane, that's terrorism and they should be punished for it

Nobody here defended a Muslim country or Iran. Everyone here agrees that Iran is a horrible country. Alot of threads here are made to mock countries like mine and Iran. But that does not mean we should turn a blind eye to America because Iran is much worse.

You just called Iran terrorists for accidentally bombing a plane, but America just bombed people in Iraq airport to kill a Iranian general! that is literally terrorism.

3 hours ago, kyanewest said:

Then go live in Iran if US is worse LOL 

Incredible things u read here 

They said US is worse in foreign affairs, not generally. Living in America is still better, that does not mean America is a better country.

 

[Guest]

Just now, Faysalaaa said:

You just called Iran terrorists for accidentally bombing a plane, but America just bombed people in Iraq airport to kill a Iranian general! that is literally terrorism.

Ive never said America hasn't done terrorist attacks on other countries. They did and they never got punished for it

[NCgaga 4,345]

7 hours ago, TheQueenEnthusiast said:

Ok uhm... that "And most of you are from countries that colonized and committed genocide across the globe." Is actually true! A lot of GCD users are from the UK, France and the US!...and this is where the "brainwashed" part comes in. To think the US isn't the largest source of genocide and war in the world is nothing but folly. 

NO ONE has committed as much genocide and colonization in the world as the governments of the UK and the US. Our country was literally founded on colonization and genocide. (entire destructions of Native populations). Regarding US and imperialism, Hawaii was a whole territory gained from colonization (the US government abducted the Hawaiian queen and literally invaded the island). What we're doing RIGHT NOW in Puerto Rico is not far from corporate neo-imperialism. My dad's home country? Invaded twice by the US. (Dominican Republic). As were other Latin American countries like...Haiti, Puerto Rico, Cuba, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Grenada, Panama. *Doesn't include US sponsored Coups). Our military went on to pillage, rape, and murder Iraqis (numbers are in the millions) at the start of the 21st century. Let's NOT forget Vietnam 60 years ago. Still can't forget the US invasions of South America though... https://www.kcet.org/shows/link-voices/deportations-assassinations-and-dictator-nations-a-timeline-of-us-intervention-in 

And you really can't look at surface numbers here regarding deaths. How many governments and rebel groups have the US aid that go on to kill innocents? You have to look at who the US aids and each situation, Israel and Palestine, Saudi Arabia - Iran - Yemen situation, etc. 

To say "And most of you are from countries that colonized and committed genocide a cross the globe." Is true... but for you to say in a type of way as if the US isn't the epitome of colonization, imperialism, and death is nothing but a glimpse of American brainwashing. 

So you actually agree with what I said, because again it is true. Not once have I denied the US involvement in war and overreach to other countries. I called out people from other countries who spend all their time bashing the US, when they themselves are not only from countries who have allied in almost every single war, but commited huge amounts of genocide in global colonization. All you did in your rant was agree with what I said about colonization. Again what part of what I said was brainwashed?  You like throwing out that word, but have yet to mention one thing that I said that A) wasn’t true,  and b) was brainwashed. 

[Whispering 18,865]

3 hours ago, lego said:

 

So when USA killed 290 innocent people incl. over 60 children on IA655 plane, not only that wasn’t terrorism (according to you, just a small flaw I guess?) they weren’t punished by any outside forces either and you’re talking about hypocrisy? 

 

 

 

It was a foreign airline with majority Iranians or people of Iranian descent. Why would they purposely target their own people when it’s obvious it was incompetence and paranoia because Trump threatened to attack 52 cultural sites days before? They now took responsibility, admitted and apologized, while Bush said back then: "I will never apologize for the USA. I don't care what the facts are." The commander who called for the strike was later honored and rewarded.

Russia still denies they shot MH17. 

 

 

 

Bush wasn’t President at the time, Reagan was. President Reagan did apologize.

The US did have a thorough investigation and the open press reported in detail on the horrible accident. Most sources treated it like the commander on the ship made a grave mistake and the US did compensate the family members.

Hopefully, Iran will do the same, as far as investigating and compensation. They don’t seem to be very interested or compliant in a full investigation and the families certainly deserve that much, at least. The restrictions on their press and news outlets are an issue, as well. 

[lego 44,165]

41 minutes ago, Whispering said:

Bush wasn’t President at the time, Reagan was.

 

I didn’t say he was, Bush senior was Vice President, who was in the midst of running for president, in August 1988.

USS Vincennes Capt. William C. Rogers was later given the Legion of Merit award for shooting down IA655 - with two surface-to-air missiles.

 

“President Ronald Reagan issued a statement from Camp David, saying the United States regretted the loss of life but defending the judgment of the skipper, Capt. Will C. Rogers III. A subsequent Defense Department investigation also supported his actions, though it noted he was given inaccurate information as the plane approached. The investigators also faulted Iran for allowing the plane to fly into an active conflict zone.”

”Captain Rogers was later awarded the Legion of Merit for his service in the Persian Gulf; an accompanying citation praised the captain’s “dynamic leadership” and “logical judgment.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/11/world/middleeast/iran-air-flight-655-history.html

 

 

Back in 1991, Prof. Entman wrote famous article where he compares how US Press covered downing of Iran Air 655 by US vs how it covered downing of Korean Air 007 by Soviet Union. 

http://courses.washington.edu/com201/COM 201 readings/Entman-Fraiming US coverage of international.pdf