France paralysed by biggest strikes in years

[Ziggy 14,174]

So what's this particular strike about? I know the French strike a lot and very effectively, but this one looks especially horrendous.

[Economy 52,951]

@ItsTommyBitch it's ppl like the one above that I was refering to in our last convo when I refered to extremist views

 

(Which applies to ppl on the right just as much btw but on GGD it's just more rare)

[chiuga 1,973]

7 hours ago, elijahfan said:

Absolutely not the same situation, just saying...

I said similar not same

[ltlmnstr 2,771]

3 hours ago, Economy said:

@ItsTommyBitch it's ppl like the one above that I was refering to in our last convo when I refered to extremist views

 

(Which applies to ppl on the right just as much btw but on GGD it's just more rare)

Extremist?!

@adterp just didn’t want to read your reply

They’re allowed to ignore comments they don’t like for whatever reason

You aren’t entitled to attention

[VenusHolland 7]

10 hours ago, Miaou said:

You didn't understand my point

I'm ashamed about the mentality of french people, we clearly don't have to act this way like savage to go inside a train

When they won't receive her pay slips, I hope they will also repaid everyone include ME who paid a monthly pass to have free transport and not zero transport 

Wow. Does that mean that you stand for the project ?

It is easy to target the 3% of the population who are privileged by the older system. But everyone is affected.
 

You pay a monthly subscription for public transport yeah. But you also pay (without knowing it) a monthly subscription for you pension. Will it be ok for you if you pay more to have less in 40/44 years ?

Those people aren’t fighting for themself only. But for everyone. I am part of the « privileged people » concerned by the reform but I still go on strike. Not for me. But for everyone. Because I am tired of seeing everyone getting poorer. If you don’t stand for the strike, then you stand for the government and you accept to get less money for retirement. This point system is the open door for gov. To do whatever they want to do. 
 

It would be better if you look for after your month of December. You would better understand... 

 

[Guillaume Hamon 7,030]

13 hours ago, Stanley Digaga said:

You can't just work less, it isn't viable economicly, we need more people at work to contribute for the pension of retirees.

 

12 hours ago, adterp said:

No need of a miracle when solutions are right in front of our eyes *better wealth distribution*

 

12 hours ago, Stanley Digaga said:

That's another subject 

France has billions of public budget which are poorly used so even without going for a different wealth distribution you could finance the retirees pensions for decades just by investing what we already invest in a less wasteful fashion from now on. Telling people they gonna have to work more cause it's the only way to go is a lie.

11 hours ago, OBEY said:

Is it just me or its been quite "messy" lately (not the good word sorry but that's what comes to mind)

with the yellow vests and now this, its a bit chaotic. however im all for people striking and demanding for better things, GO !

For the yellow vests, them striking for weeks here or there was ignored until they intensified the blocking/ partial blocking of some oil refineries which made the government came up with bigger solutions etc.   Basically the "neat" method doesn't bring results sadly.  

[Guillaume Hamon 7,030]

13 hours ago, Miaou said:

I'm ashamed about the mentality of french people, we clearly don't have to act this way like savage to go inside a train

Tbh each time you get some major transport issue somewhere you gonna have videos of people getting crazy while trying to get in the bus/ tramway/ train  ending up in the news. I don't  think it's specifically french.

Also let's not forget medias always show the most spectacular images. They can have teams filming all day with no mess happening and when it get chaotic for 20 min that's this part they gonna show to the world.

13 hours ago, Miaou said:

I hope they will also repaid everyone include ME who paid a monthly pass to have free transport and not zero transport 

That's the responsibility of the company to do so for the days when you were not able to use transport indeed.

[Economy 52,951]

7 hours ago, ltlmnstr said:

Extremist?!

@adterp just didn’t want to read your reply

They’re allowed to ignore comments they don’t like for whatever reason

You aren’t entitled to attention

First of all these are my typical replies anyway to which he was refering to

 

Secondly he was making assumptions about what I said 

 

If ur not gonna bother to read it, don't reply at all then with sassy attitude, just don't say anything then

 

Lastly you I was talking about something specific with itstommybitch that he perfectly represented

 

When I said some ppl from the far left consider anything not fully to their opinion they tent to be aggressive about it... He mostly denied their existence so I was giving an example of what I meant

 

It's not the fact that he didn't read my comment and didn't give me "attention" that I'm calling extremist... What I'm calling extremist is that I'm a centrist at most, I don't really really advocate right stuff anymore than I do left and he's accusing me of being a conservative rantist

 

So to me if a broad view on both sides on a debate is conservative ranting, that's exactly the kind of people I was talking about in my conversation with @ItsTommyBitch . Comments that consider view points from BOTH sides being seen as rants for the other side prove to me that even a hint of thinking outside their political opinions is completely intolerated

 

The fact that u can't discuss different view points with some people (in a civilized mammor on top of that) and then be shrugged off as a conservative rantist to me is a little worrying and close minded to say the least.

 

At the very least have the decency to not reply (or say something you know, like nicer) if you don't feel to engaging in discussion about a topic u don't agree instead of a smirky comment like that making assumptions of something you didn't even read 

[corvus albus 38,031]

Maybe some of the older and/or more knowledgeable ones on GGD remember that Germany had huge economic problems in the 90s and early 2000s. What our government did were enormous reforms with deep cuts into the social sector to ensure that Germany is still an economic power and not in a decade long recession. Macron took these reforms but cut the more severe social reforms and most of the anti worker policies. Basically he lessened the impact his reforms will have to make sure french people won't be as severely effected as German people YET that's still too much for french people. 

Check your economic future and tell me, with a straight face, that your system can still work in 20 years because it won't. You'll collapse under your gigantic bureaucracy and debt while demanding even more. Germany prevented this for themselves but you seem to prefer throwing yourself into abyss. 

[Economy 52,951]

32 minutes ago, corvus albus said:

Maybe some of the older and/or more knowledgeable ones on GGD remember that Germany had huge economic problems in the 90s and early 2000s. What our government did were enormous reforms with deep cuts into the social sector to ensure that Germany is still an economic power and not in a decade long recession. Macron took these reforms but cut the more severe social reforms and most of the anti worker policies. Basically he lessened the impact his reforms will have to make sure french people won't be as severely effected as German people YET that's still too much for french people. 

Check your economic future and tell me, with a straight face, that your system can still work in 20 years because it won't. You'll collapse under your gigantic bureaucracy and debt while demanding even more. Germany prevented this for themselves but you seem to prefer throwing yourself into abyss. 

France is one of the most left economies in Europe and has been for quite some time...

 

I think if all these extensive labor laws and regulations and social programs really worked as intended France shouldn't be under performing so poorly... Also France does not have the kind of population decline so much of European nations do... So it's economic growth is even more unstellar if you take that into consideration

 

Anyway as I've said before... Policies always have their pros and their cons that on a net basis to some extent end up offsetting eachother

 

Figuring out which social policies on a net basis yield the most benefit in relation to downsides and to what extent they should be taken to is often the tricky part

 

Also part of what makes government spending or beaureocracy good or bad also depends on how well it's run. There's plenty of pretty socialist Nations in Northern Europe that have done well for themselves including Denmark, Sweden, Netherlands, Finland, Norway (they have the oil advantage but still) to name a few

 

So I don't think the issue is just how much social programs you have and how left you are but it's also how well implemented and effectively administered and controlled it is

 

You can have government take over projects and have cost overruns (which is often typical of the government running things) or not... You can have social programs regulated in a way that they are abused or not. You can have government spending on something that is an investment or you can have it on something that's a total waste

 

So I think these things are far more complex than just how big beaureocracy is... Effectiveness is a big factor too

 

Remember a common idea with left wing politics is bigger taxation and then bigger spending. Essentially more of the Nation's labor and financial resources are transferred away from private sector and put in the power of the government to decide how to utilize it... That can be good or bad depending on the level of the Government's competency

 

A competent government can make investments efficiently on behalf of the entire public's needs in a way the private sector seeking its own profits never will

 

An incompetent government will waste a lot of money on useless things and drain resources away from consumers and businesses without a positive benefit to offset the cons of higher taxation

[MoonIsRising 2,816]

You're all talking without knowing how the reform will impact french citizens. For example it will create more discrimination towards women. + the government lies to us about the level of points and how it will impact our pension if they decide to low this level. We are protesting for these reasons. 

 

[audrey horne 1,180]

1 hour ago, corvus albus said:

Maybe some of the older and/or more knowledgeable ones on GGD remember that Germany had huge economic problems in the 90s and early 2000s. What our government did were enormous reforms with deep cuts into the social sector to ensure that Germany is still an economic power and not in a decade long recession. Macron took these reforms but cut the more severe social reforms and most of the anti worker policies. Basically he lessened the impact his reforms will have to make sure french people won't be as severely effected as German people YET that's still too much for french people. 

Check your economic future and tell me, with a straight face, that your system can still work in 20 years because it won't. You'll collapse under your gigantic bureaucracy and debt while demanding even more. Germany prevented this for themselves but you seem to prefer throwing yourself into abyss. 

Germany's economy might be on the green, but it's also thriving with poverty rates higher than ever (higher than France or UK) and an increasing amount of people working part-time second jobs. So what is important really ? To stay at the top of world economic power lists or to end miserable living conditions for all ? 

[corvus albus 38,031]

Just now, adterp said:

Germany's economy might be on the green, but it's also thriving with poverty rates higher than ever (and higher than France or UK) and an increasing amount of people with part-time and/or second jobs. So what is important really ? To stay at the top of world economic power lists or to end miserable living conditions for all ? 

The German Gini index is better than the French and way better than the UK index. Gini index shows the equality in income and wealth. 

The poverty rate of UK is higher than Germany and France and at least we banned hitting our own children nearly two decades ago and not just one year ago. 

We don't have miserable living conditions but if your economy is crap (like France) you'll have them soon yourself. 

[Guest]

Can’t relate 

[audrey horne 1,180]

39 minutes ago, corvus albus said:

The German Gini index is better than the French and way better than the UK index. Gini index shows the equality in income and wealth. 

The poverty rate of UK is higher than Germany and France and at least we banned hitting our own children nearly two decades ago and not just one year ago. 

We don't have miserable living conditions but if your economy is crap (like France) you'll have them soon yourself. 

I think you misunderstood my point. Reforms have consequences and one of those in Germany is the increasing poverty rate. I have no interest in putting country policies against each other (stan culture issues ?). 

Logically, the German Gini Index will give great numbers, it's an out of touch and institutionlized trading data tool. I'm trying to talk about how such numbers affect real people's lives. 

"at least we banned hitting our own children nearly two decades ago and not just one year ago." You are right and I'll always be first to criticize french policies, but this is off-topic. 

"We don't have miserable living conditions but if your economy is crap (like France) you'll have them soon yourself." We already have such conditions, that's exactly why we are striking for a year. The current french gouvernement is only acting for the few, not the many and it already showed. Of course if you stay in a privileged bubble, you might not be able to see it, but inequalities are blowing up even in the wealthiest EU countries and I'll never stop fighting for disadvantaged minorities.