Pelosi: Bush illegal war is not Impeachable

[Nino 12]

5 minutes ago, Faysalaaa said:

No, the thread is an attack on her actions, not Bush. Her action of refusing to impeach Bush and keeping his crimes a secret. Again, these are things she has done, not Bush, and this is what the thread is about. 

I did not name call you, you started the "adult" thing so I used it on you too:
 

 

I called myself an educated adult. You called me an insane child. Those are not the same thing.

For the last time, Pelosi being wrong about Bush doesn't make her wrong about Trump by default. I never said she's an good or even consistent public servant, just that your op is factually incorrect in connecting this to anti-Trump conspiracy theories. Try to be better than the typical Trump supporters who are allergic to facts and resort to ad hominem attacks.

[Emvee 8,870]

If you can, please donate to Shahid Buttar’s campaign. He is running against Nancy Pelosi in 2020.

 

 

[PartySick 174,967]

9 minutes ago, HorusRa2 said:

Pelosi is barely correct concerning politics and certainly on the subject of accountability.

Shes on record for saying impeaching Bush was too divisive. Instead of impeaching on principle, she chooses to impeach by political calculation. The same is true with Trump. I’m not sure why she chose to impeach Trump, but what she is trying to do is very weak as her reason to impeach Trump implies corruption not only by Trump but also by Biden. The evidence is arbitrary in comparison to what Bush did. 

Anyone who doesn’t think the same is too busy being partisan to see it for what it really is. 

I'd feel more secure about the effort to impeach Trump if they threw everything at him honestly. He's committed at least a dozen or more offenses such as bribery, corruption, bigotry, perjury (possibly), violating the Hatch act and emoluments clause, and lately this Ukraine thing.

Why it got so far I'll never know but Trump definitely deserves to be impeached.

OT: Not surprised  isn't Bush literally classified as a war criminal? 

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Nino said:

I called myself an educated adult. You called me an insane child. Those are not the same thing.

For the last time, Pelosi being wrong about Bush doesn't make her wrong about Trump by default. I never said she's an good or even consistent public servant, just that your op is factually incorrect in connecting this to anti-Trump conspiracy theories.

Sorry I apologize, you said that my games dont work on educated adults, so I took that as you saying im not one. Lets not take things personal and talk about the topic itself. But we are repeating the same arguments so lets end it here.

Just to make things more clear, I did not say Pelosi is wrong about impeaching Trump though, if you read my comment, I said a couple of times that im for the impeachment of Trump. But im questioning her integrity as a politician and calling her out for being a hypocrite.

[Jill 31,812]

2 hours ago, Faysalaaa said:

then-Vice President **** Cheney

 

[Whispering 18,865]

51 minutes ago, HorusRa2 said:

Pelosi is barely correct concerning politics and certainly on the subject of accountability.

Shes on record for saying impeaching Bush was too divisive. Instead of impeaching on principle, she chooses to impeach by political calculation. The same is true with Trump. I’m not sure why she chose to impeach Trump, but what she is trying to do is very weak as her reason to impeach Trump implies corruption not only by Trump but also by Biden. The evidence is arbitrary in comparison to what Bush did. 

Anyone who doesn’t think the same is too busy being partisan to see it for what it really is. 

Bernie was one of the first to call for impeachment. I guess he’s a partisan player now.

[Whispering 18,865]

40 minutes ago, PartySick said:

I'd feel more secure about the effort to impeach Trump if they threw everything at him honestly. He's committed at least a dozen or more offenses such as bribery, corruption, bigotry, perjury (possibly), violating the Hatch act and emoluments clause, and lately this Ukraine thing.

Why it got so far I'll never know but Trump definitely deserves to be impeached.

OT: Not surprised  isn't Bush literally classified as a war criminal? 

Throwing everything at Trump would be a huge mistake. Impeachment is political, set up by the founding fathers to be so. Trump admitted to withholding aid from another nation to get information on a political rival, both in writing and in on camera. He leveraged his office and then refused to turn over information to Congress. The case couldn’t be more clear. 

[HorusRa2 5,005]

13 minutes ago, Whispering said:

Bernie was one of the first to call for impeachment. I guess he’s a partisan player now.

I see your obsession over Bernie and me is still alive and well. 

1. If it wasn't clear, I do think Trump should be impeached; however, the timing of and the reason for that Pelosi chose to proceed with impeachment isn't going actually lead to his removal from office. The nature Pelosi has chosen to go with with regard to impeachment is likely to end up not removing Trump from office, increasing the polarized nature of our legislature and potentially destroy the chance for the democratic nominee to defeat Trump in a general election. 

 

2. I don't know how else to say this but just because I support Bernie Sanders for president does not mean I agree with every position he takes, policy he supports and thing he says. I have few disagreements with Bernie compared to the rest of the democratic field; however, I do not view any politician as a savior or as perfect. So, if you could stop patronizing me and who I support every chance you get, I would greatly appreciate it. When I disagree with you on the rest of the field, it is always about their records and the policies they support relative to my personal beliefs and values as a voter. 

 

But since you wanted to make the remark, every person running for 2020 has supported impeachment (even Tulsi who had to backtrack within 24 hours of saying she did not). Further, when I said anyone who disagreed with my previous post was being partisan, I was referring to the fact that Pelosi chose not to support impeachment for Bush and has supported to do so for Trump. The reality is when you look at the two specific reasons for impeachment (Ukraine vs Iraq War), it is very clear that Bush's offense was more clear, evident and had a stronger case for impeachment compared to Ukraine. Based on our previous conversations and engagements, it has become increasingly clear that you do not necessarily have issues with the interventionist world policing that has been the US foreign policy since the Monroe Doctrine; so, I totally understand why you have issues seeing that this is the case. IF you think the US has a right to intervene with elections and governments of other countries, then you probably do not see any problem with what Bush did other than the fact that he and his administration lied to the American People (something Trump has done since he was a candidate). 

[Whispering 18,865]

13 minutes ago, HorusRa2 said:

I see your obsession over Bernie and me is still alive and well. 

1. If it wasn't clear, I do think Trump should be impeached; however, the timing of and the reason for that Pelosi chose to proceed with impeachment isn't going actually lead to his removal from office. The nature Pelosi has chosen to go with with regard to impeachment is likely to end up not removing Trump from office, increasing the polarized nature of our legislature and potentially destroy the chance for the democratic nominee to defeat Trump in a general election. 

 

2. I don't know how else to say this but just because I support Bernie Sanders for president does not mean I agree with every position he takes, policy he supports and thing he says. I have few disagreements with Bernie compared to the rest of the democratic field; however, I do not view any politician as a savior or as perfect. So, if you could stop patronizing me and who I support every chance you get, I would greatly appreciate it. When I disagree with you on the rest of the field, it is always about their records and the policies they support relative to my personal beliefs and values as a voter. 

 

But since you wanted to make the remark, every person running for 2020 has supported impeachment (even Tulsi who had to backtrack within 24 hours of saying she did not). Further, when I said anyone who disagreed with my previous post was being partisan, I was referring to the fact that Pelosi chose not to support impeachment for Bush and has supported to do so for Trump. The reality is when you look at the two specific reasons for impeachment (Ukraine vs Iraq War), it is very clear that Bush's offense was more clear, evident and had a stronger case for impeachment compared to Ukraine. Based on our previous conversations and engagements, it has become increasingly clear that you do not necessarily have issues with the interventionist world policing that has been the US foreign policy since the Monroe Doctrine; so, I totally understand why you have issues seeing that this is the case. IF you think the US has a right to intervene with elections and governments of other countries, then you probably do not see any problem with what Bush did other than the fact that he and his administration lied to the American People (something Trump has done since he was a candidate). 

No, just pointing out that your candidate that you devote hours to defending was doing the very thing that you were saying made one partisan. Bernie is partisan.

1. Of course it isn’t going to lead to removal of office. Everyone knows that. Trump could blow up the White House and the GOP wouldn’t remove him from office. 

2. That’s a lot of assumptions, and most of them are wrong. 

Now, about Pelosi. She didn’t bring about articles of Impeachment because there was no support for it at the time- not in Congress, not from the American people, not from Democrats. You can’t base an Impeachment on attitudes and support two decades later. The support and the votes have to be there to move forward in current time. 

[Bt1 5,213]

Hard to say if she is right or wrong. Look at this impeachment. This impeachment may be a failure, no matter the facts or the evidence. 

[HorusRa2 5,005]

7 minutes ago, Whispering said:

No, just pointing out that your candidate that you devote hours to defending was doing the very thing that you were saying made one partisan. Bernie is partisan.

1. Of course it isn’t going to lead to removal of office. Everyone knows that. Trump could blow up the White House and the GOP wouldn’t remove him from office. 

2. That’s a lot of assumptions, and most of them are wrong. 

Now, about Pelosi. She didn’t bring about articles of Impeachment because there was no support for it at the time- not in Congress, not from the American people, not from Democrats. You can’t base an Impeachment on attitudes and support two decades later. The support and the votes have to be there to move forward in current time. 

So, you're confirming my original comment that Pelosi chose not to go for impeachment for Bush because of political calculation and now chosen to go forward with impeachment with Trump for the same. The decision is not based on principle. Because it is not based on principle and this isn't something that has a huge precedent (and the precedent we have is only Nixon and Clinton), I'm sure you would agree that impeachment is largely a contest of smoke and mirrors among the two political parties.

Impeachment should really be used as a form of checks and balances(in my view) and should really be based on principle here. So, based off of that, I would actually argue that Nancy, as speaker of the house, isn't really doing her job. Bush should have been impeached regardless of whether there was support for it because what he did was illegal. What Trump has done consistently is also illegal. He should also be impeached. But what you, myself and the rest of the country are getting to see in real time is that accountability and rule of law does not really apply to the executive branch of government. It's very troubling and shows further proof that this country doesn't resemble a democracy so much as it resembles oligarchy. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Florin said:

Hard to say if she is right or wrong. Look at this impeachment. This impeachment may be a failure, no matter the facts or the evidence. 

The law should be practiced regardless of the assumed outcome. If you set the precedent that Republican presidents can break the law without punishment, this will make things dangerous. What should be done is impeaching Trump on real issues that are not vague and there is many things that can easily impeach him. 

[Bt1 5,213]

16 minutes ago, Faysalaaa said:

The law should be practiced regardless of the assumed outcome. If you set the precedent that Republican presidents can break the law without punishment, this will make things dangerous. What should be done is impeaching Trump on real issues that are not vague and there is many things that can easily impeach him. 

Yea and the law will solve this problem in the Senate. That's the law.  u like it? 

U will like it even more if the final results are Trump winning again? 

The details in things like this are very important. This discussion shows why she is right. 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Florin said:

Yea and the law will solve this problem in the Senate. That's the law.  u like it? 

U will like it even more if the final results are Trump winning again? 

The details in things like this are very important. This discussion shows why she is right. 

If she is right about Bush, then why is she impeaching Trump?
  

[HorusRa2 5,005]

10 minutes ago, Florin said:

Yea and the law will solve this problem in the Senate. That's the law.  u like it? 

U will like it even more if the final results are Trump winning again? 

The details in things like this are very important. This discussion shows why she is right. 

How can you look at the data and see she is correct? 

The fact is that even if the house impeaches Trump, he will not be removed from Office. Trump will say this is an exoneration and use it as a rally cry to defeat the Do Nothing Democrats in the general election. His approval numbers continue to go up, general election matches between him and every candidate is getting closer and closer and support for impeachment is starting to decline. If Pelosi had chosen to impeach over something with actual substance, she could use public opinion as a rallying cry against the Senate; however, the public is starting to feel closer and closer to Trump's view on impeachment because of what she chose to impeach him on. 

I don't think anyone is really saying he shouldn't be impeached; rather, the critique is on the nature of impeachment and what is being done to impeach.