Didymus 34,379 Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 5 minutes ago, kyanewest said: There were art books, clearly stated as not being ****ographic in nature but as items that could “possibly” be used as part of a “grooming” process. Again claims to fit a narrative These were the books that every pedophile had in their home these days. That they are legal and not explicitly p-rnographic was literally the reason for their success among pedophiles. Police raids around that time confirm that these books were found in the homes of tons of convicted pedophiles anyway. Still, you're right, it's no hard evidence. But once more, if you knew your neighbor was sleeping with kids in his bed after paying off its parents and had those books in his home, you'd be calling the police in a heartbeat. That doesn't mean your neighbor would be guilty either, but my point is that we're dealing with a completely embarrassing double standard here just because some obsessed fans don't even want to open up the possibility that Michael's behavior was inappropriate and potentially damaging for children even if he didn't sexually abuse anyone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miracle 14,068 Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Christian Haines said: Uh what evidence is there against him? Oh yeah thats right nothing. There's no DIRECT evidence of child abuse that would be accepted in court (especially after the victims sworn he didn't do it) but the journalistic, photographic and other non-direct evidence is massive. From the victims' handprints on MJ fetish stuff, onto the families being separated from their children, to EVIDENCE of the kids sleeping with MJ on his bed for months, to finally, the heartbreaking testimony of TWO fathers of the victims commiting suicide Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geusst1235 5,398 Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, Didymus said: But why would you be so adamant about sleeping with kids in the first place, even if you are a kid in a man's body (which is not a recognized diagnosis btw)? I feel like some of you guys are completely missing the point about what makes everything so off-putting and uncomfortable. It's not about Michael feeling safe with kids and wanting to hang out with them, that's all fine. That doesn't require an explanation. What does require an explanation is why he slept with children at all, regardless of his ****ed up childhood. Obviously its not a real diagnosis but people can be heavily mentally/emotionally stunted from traumatic events,such as his childhood.I'm not saying that he didn't have issues as he definitely did but in his possibly underdeveloped mind it didn't seem wrong or malicious to him,similar to my one friend.Of course he didn't sleep in beds with other kids but he has told me that he even prefers and feels more connected to children sometimes and NOT in a sexual way at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whispering 18,865 Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 25 minutes ago, darkpaw said: First of all, OJ’s case was completely different so please just don’t. Second there was more than enough evidence to send R Kelly to prison to rot and as you may have noticed he was arrested. I don’t know how these con people spend the money they receive in these cases nor do I care. Michael Jackson was investigated by the FBI not the California PD. And if you feel so strongly about it then why not have the same energy towards the parents of these “victims” who chose money over integrity? They didn’t have to take any money, they chose to! These people who -if these were true- essentially pimped out their children to him. I mean it’s full circle. I don’t believe that after 10 years of him being dead they want anything other than money but if you all wanna keep attacking a dead man the be my guess. They are examples of people who were guilty, but went to trial and were found not guilty. Guilty people are found to be not-guilty every day of the year, especially ones that can afford the best lawyers. Yep, these same parents that let their seven and eight year old boys sleep in the same bed as a grown man, who let a grown man send them love notes and call them on the phone every night. These same parents sold their kids out for goods and attention and then for money. I definitely believe these are the type of parents that could do this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geusst1235 5,398 Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, Whispering said: They are examples of people who were guilty, but went to trial and were found not guilty. Guilty people are found to be not-guilty every day of the year, especially ones that can afford the best lawyers. Yep, these same parents that let their seven and eight year old boys sleep in the same bed as a grown man, who let a grown man send them love notes and call them on the phone every night. These same parents sold their kids out for goods and attention and then for money. I definitely believe these are the type of parents that could do this. Send them love notes? You mean the same exact notes Michael was even sending to people as a child word for word,uh no.Michael also called other people on the phone every night,not just kids.There are multiple recordings of them out there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OBEY 57,109 Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 Just now, Christian Haines said: Send them love notes? You mean the same exact notes Michael was even sending to people as a child word for word,uh no.Michael also called other people on the phone every night,not just kids.There are multiple recordings of them out there. So If I call my mom every night and I also call a dude named Jeremy every night that later Jeremy accuses me of harassment and say that, out of other stuff, was harassing him over the phone every night, the fact that I was also calling my mom every night sort of proves that I'm just that type of person, I wasn't harassing him? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 8 minutes ago, Didymus said: These were the books that every pedophile had in their home these days. That they are legal and not explicitly p-rnographic was literally the reason for their success among pedophiles. Police raids around that time confirm that these books were found in the homes of tons of convicted pedophiles anyway. Still, you're right, it's no hard evidence. But once more, if you knew your neighbor was sleeping with kids in his bed after paying off its parents and had those books in his home, you'd be calling the police in a heartbeat. That doesn't mean your neighbor would be guilty either, but my point is that we're dealing with a completely embarrassing double standard here just because some obsessed fans don't even want to open up the possibility that Michael's behavior was inappropriate and potentially damaging for children even if he didn't sexually abuse anyone. I personally think Michael was not normal and needed psychological help. But it's not a shocker, just looking at his appearance, the fact he grew up famous, a father who beat him, alone, had no girlfriends, obsessed with Peter Pan, building a fake disneyland as home, this man was not normal by any means. Everybody knows it. He lived in a fairytale where he was Peter Pan, a 10 year old hanging out with other 10 year olds in a perfect happy world where no adults would judge him. He said it many times, animals and kids were his favorite, Neverland was pratically a zoo as well, he wanted to surround himself with "creatures" that were non judgemental and "pure". The problem is this is the real world, and it's not normal to hang out with kids as ur homies as a 40 year old man, with no romantic relationship with men, or women in ur life. But that's a psychological issue. I'd never dare accuse someone of being a monster though if there are no hard tangible evidence. I've always felt pity for him because his life was ****. Yes he was famous, rich, talented, but he had nothing, and his attempt to build a dream world was a big fail, it only brought him down in the end. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didymus 34,379 Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 6 minutes ago, Christian Haines said: Obviously its not a real diagnosis but people can be heavily mentally/emotionally stunted from traumatic events,such as his childhood.I'm not saying that he didn't have issues as he definitely did but in his possibly underdeveloped mind it didn't seem wrong or malicious to him,similar to my one friend.Of course he didn't sleep in beds with other kids but he has told me that he even prefers and feels more connected to children sometimes and NOT in a sexual way at all. All possible. The point is that it's not all about Michael. It's also about those kids. From their perspective it doesn't matter if Michael was suffering from traumas and mental underdevelopment. From their perspective Michael's actions were very problematic and morally questionable even if no sexual abuse of any kind ever took place. If some of you could just admit to that, I swear we wouldn't even be having half of the debates here. It's this kneejerk "Michael is completely innocent, how dare you think otherwise" reaction of so many fans that sparks the fire most of the time. We weren't there, none of us can know for sure. Instead of trying to get a yes or no answer to the "did he do it" question, we could just talk about what's happening with the allegations objectively instead of defending anyone. We don't even know these people, seriously. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whispering 18,865 Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 4 minutes ago, Christian Haines said: Send them love notes? You mean the same exact notes Michael was even sending to people as a child word for word,uh no.Michael also called other people on the phone every night,not just kids.There are multiple recordings of them out there. How many adult men send seven year old kids love notes and call them each night? How many grown adult men share their bed with elementary school boys? MJ loved pre-pubescent boys. It’s creepy. You can’t defend it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geusst1235 5,398 Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 5 minutes ago, OBEY said: So If I call my mom every night and I also call a dude named Jeremy every night that later Jeremy accuses me of harassment and say that, out of other stuff, was harassing him over the phone every night, the fact that I was also calling my mom every night sort of proves that I'm just that type of person, I wasn't harassing him? And again,was Michael grooming all these people now? The notes are the S A M E. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geusst1235 5,398 Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 1 minute ago, Whispering said: How many adult men send seven year old kids love notes and call them each night? How many grown adult men share their bed with elementary school boys? MJ loved pre-pubescent boys. It’s creepy. You can’t defend it. So Michael was trying to groom everyone,even his fans and as a child......right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OBEY 57,109 Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 4 minutes ago, Whispering said: How many adult men send seven year old kids love notes and call them each night? How many grown adult men share their bed with elementary school boys? MJ loved pre-pubescent boys. It’s creepy. You can’t defend it. Some of his fans can't seem to think that unfortunately, which is a pretty messed up thing if you ask me Sure you like his music and he was a talented artist, but the voluntary blindness has to stop for some... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whispering 18,865 Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 5 minutes ago, Christian Haines said: So Michael was trying to groom everyone,even his fans and as a child......right. “Make me happy, little one” ”Where is my little one? My little one is here!” Once again, an adult man is sending these messages to a second grader. Adults and second graders are not “friends”. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geusst1235 5,398 Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 4 minutes ago, Whispering said: “Make me happy, little one” ”Where is my little one? My little one is here!” Once again, an adult man is sending these messages to a second grader. Adults and second graders are not “friends”. And yet I have friends that have acted that exact same way with smaller kids.It does not mean it is malicious in intent at all.Also he sent messages like that to everyone,and I repeat EVERYONE.They were not private,were not secret,and were not hidden.I could still send you dozens more,they are all the same.Apparently you didn't read him sending similar messages as a CHILD himself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whispering 18,865 Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 1 minute ago, Christian Haines said: And yet I have friends that have acted that exact same way with smaller kids.It does not mean it is malicious in intent at all.Also he sent messages like that to everyone,and I repeat EVERYONE.They were not private,were not secret,and were not hidden.I could still send you dozens more,they are all the same.Apparently you didn't read him sending similar messages as a CHILD himself. Then they have problems, sorry. If your adult friends are having random second graders over for sleepovers and calling them every da6 on the phone, they have some serious issues. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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