NFL to force players to stand for pledge if on the field

[misunderstood 8,736]

2 minutes ago, Whispering said:

Everything I stated above is correct. The players are part of a union, and they negotiate their work conditions, compensation and guidelines. They have immense talent, they are a commodity that makes money for these owners. Therefore, they have bargaining power. 

None of that was made up or "pulled out of my ass". 

Mess, ya'll will never learn 😢

[StarstruckIllusion 53,564]

4 minutes ago, misunderstood said:

Mess, ya'll will never learn 😢

Your argument is weak when it has to reach to insults/discussion killing tactics for support 

[SolidSnake 2,804]

11 minutes ago, Wigless said:

Right so, it's only free speech when it's the alt right spewing hate. That's the only free speech America cares about. That country is so cancelled lmao I'm al glad I don't live there. 

Extreme nationalism is on the rise in all countries not just here. 

[REALITY 80,162]

6 minutes ago, misunderstood said:

You know exactly what you're doing here and it's sad. I still stand by my statement, that you seemed to not have read. NFL is a company, they can have as many or as little rules for their employees as they want to. Nobody is dying because of NFL's choices. The only thing happening to people opposed to NFL's decision is disagreement. Also it's concerning that you say "but you've lost this debate". I didn't know we were debating here, I have no interest in that like most . I don't understand why you don't understand that a company can tell their employee's what to do. They aren't discriminating them, they're just doing what a lot of companies would do...Most people don't protest at work. The company's image and ratings are being affected by some of their employees actions. They have to do what they have to do to maintain their business, and that is "The policy subjects teams to a fine if a player or any other team personnel do not show respect for the anthem. That includes any attempt to sit or kneel, as dozens of players have done during the past two seasons to protest racial inequality and police brutality. Those teams also will have the option to fine any team personnel, including players, for the infraction." There's things I don't want to do at work but I still have to just to keep my job. Also using Weinstein's victims as an example is very rude. In the contract they didn't sign up to be assaulted or harmed. You can say that the NFL player's didn't sign up for this to be put in place but at the same time at least they have a choice and they don't get fired right away. They just face a consequence because of an action they choose to do. All you've said so far is the same old same old things. 

You're all saying the same things 

I get what you're saying, and sure, from a technical standpoint, this is a company talking to its employees, and no one should have a say in that unless they're directly involved with the companies. That being said, this issue stems from something greater than that. There's a reason why some players are kneeling, and there's a reason why some people are angry about it.

This is more than just a business vs. its employees. Obviously this is something bigger since average people are having discussions about this. Hell, even Trump has commentated on this issue. While the NFL does have the legal ability to tell its players what to do, that doesn't get around the issue. 

The issue is that players are kneeling for a reason, and that's due to racial inequality and police brutality. Now I'm not saying that the NFL should be responsible for trying to help in any sort of political way, but in a way, by making this policy, they are. They acknowledge the issue but aren't doing anything to help the cause. 

At the end of the day, yes, the NFL has the ability to do these things, but just because something falls into a "technicality" category doesn't mean that it's necessary right. 

[misunderstood 8,736]

1 minute ago, SolidSnake said:

Boldface point 1: Challenging you to an intellectual and philosophical debate is what i'm doing here. One you refuse to participate in for whatever reason. When is it okay for workers to have rights is what i'm asking you. Its a question you dont want to answer because it will trap you morally. 

Boldface point 2: Most organizations do not force you to stand for anthem everyday. Hell most organizations do not play the national anthem everyday and besides that the kneeling isnt effecting their ratings. Sports ratings are down across the board because there are more forms of entertainment available. 

Boldface point 3: No it isnt. Im asking you where do workers rights begin and end in your opinion. When does an issue stop being "find another job" and when does it become "You have no right to force me to do this". As far as I know there isnt any sort of anthem clause in a players contracts. I could be wrong.


 

1) I didn't know we were debating here, it's sad to be how you want to seem so woke so you have to go out of your way to make everything a debate  Keep doing you though.

2) Of course they don't, and also most people who work at their job don't kneel or do something to make some sort of social statement. Also that's false, their ratings started going down RIGHT after the kneeling topic was all over the place. I know you don't want to believe that because it seems so impossible to you, and even if http://money.cnn.com/2018/05/23/news/nfl-ratings-anthem-protest/index.html said it's only gone down by 3% but the thing is...of course they're going to say that. You shouldn't take most of these "polls" "surveys" seriously but sadly you do.

3) Things in contracts change all the time though and a company (as ****ed up as it is) can make any rules they want to and face no consequences. I'm looking at it from a reality standpoint, not a perfect world standpoint.

[misunderstood 8,736]

3 minutes ago, Wigless said:

Your argument is weak when it has to reach to insults/discussion killing tactics for support 

Insults? 

[misunderstood 8,736]

3 minutes ago, M Monstre said:

I get what you're saying, and sure, from a technical standpoint, this is a company talking to its employees, and no one should have a say in that unless they're directly involved with the companies. That being said, this issue stems from something greater than that. There's a reason why some players are kneeling, and there's a reason why some people are angry about it.

This is more than just a business vs. its employees. Obviously this is something bigger since average people are having discussions about this. Hell, even Trump has commentated on this issue. While the NFL does have the legal ability to tell its players what to do, that doesn't get around the issue. 

The issue is that players are kneeling for a reason, and that's due to racial inequality and police brutality. Now I'm not saying that the NFL should be responsible for trying to help in any sort of political way, but in a way, by making this policy, they are. They acknowledge the issue but aren't doing anything to help the cause. 

At the end of the day, yes, the NFL has the ability to do these things, but just because something falls into a "technicality" category doesn't mean that it's necessary right. 

Well thank you for being reasonable in this discussion. I'm usually technical with a lot of things which is why I just can't agree with the opposing views on this decision.

[SolidSnake 2,804]

3 minutes ago, misunderstood said:

1) I didn't know we were debating here, it's sad to be how you want to seem so woke so you have to go out of your way to make everything a debate  Keep doing you though.

2) Of course they don't, and also most people who work at their job don't kneel or do something to make some sort of social statement. Also that's false, their ratings started going down RIGHT after the kneeling topic was all over the place. I know you don't want to believe that because it seems so impossible to you, and even if http://money.cnn.com/2018/05/23/news/nfl-ratings-anthem-protest/index.html said it's only gone down by 3% but the thing is...of course they're going to say that. You shouldn't take most of these "polls" "surveys" seriously but sadly you do.

3) Things in contracts change all the time though and a company (as ****ed up as it is) can make any rules they want to and face no consequences. I'm looking at it from a reality standpoint, not a perfect world standpoint.

1.) This is a debate. You keep throwing the word "woke" around. You are acting "woke" by refusing to participate in it. 

2.) Your own article says there are numerous factors that could be causing declining ratings. Reading is your friend. 

3.) No they cant. That isnt how contracts work. Besides we have regulations on business for a reason.  

[misunderstood 8,736]

Just now, SolidSnake said:

1.) This is a debate. You keep throwing the word "woke" around. You are acting "woke" by refusing to participate in it. 

2.) Your own article says there are numerous factors that could be causing declining ratings. Reading is your friend. 

3.) No they cant. That isnt how contracts work. 

1) I rather not be associated with that term please, your side is the side that wants to appear that way. I have absolutely no interest in being associated with that joke of a term  I didn't do debate in school or I don't care about these kinds of discussions most of the time because it always ends up the same. Neither side cares or changes their mind, thankfully it's another thing I don't waste my time on but I did today since you wanted to make this a bigger deal than it is

2) Also I already said what I said about the article. Especially from CNN  why wouldn't they tell you what you wanna hear? I did read it, and I don't take these "surveys" or "polls" seriously, but that's just me.

3) You keep telling yourself that I guess. The world isn't as perfect as you wish or want it to be, sorry to break it to you.

[REALITY 80,162]

2 minutes ago, misunderstood said:

Well thank you for being reasonable in this discussion. I'm usually technical with a lot of things which is why I just can't agree with the opposing views on this decision.

And I can understand that viewpoint, and while I do disagree with it, I respect it. That being said, I still stand by my statement. I think the fundamental issue here is that it's not a technical issue, but a moral and ethical issue. I mean, when black people were participating in sit-ins, it was illegal, yet they still did it because they knew that it was the right thing to do: a shop/restaurant shouldn't discriminate against people. I know the comparison may be a little far-reaching, but it still provides the same principles.

[SolidSnake 2,804]

2 minutes ago, misunderstood said:

1) I rather not be associated with that term please, your side is the side that wants to appear that way. I have absolutely no interest in being associated with that joke of a term  I didn't do debate in school or I don't care about these kinds of discussions most of the time because it always ends up the same. Neither side cares or changes their mind, thankfully it's another thing I don't waste my time on but I did today since you wanted to make this a bigger deal than it is

2) Also I already said what I said about the article. Especially from CNN  why wouldn't they tell you what you wanna hear? I did read it, and I don't take these "surveys" or "polls" seriously, but that's just me.

3) You keep telling yourself that I guess. The world isn't as perfect as you wish or want it to be, sorry to break it to you.

1) If you dont care about the debate quit replying to me. It seems simple enough haha.

2) their ratings were declining before kneeling as was all of Network TV, including sports.

3) Okay.

[misunderstood 8,736]

Just now, M Monstre said:

And I can understand that viewpoint, and while I do disagree with it, I respect it. That being said, I still stand by my statement. I think the fundamental issue here is that it's not a technical issue, but a moral and ethical issue. I mean, when black people were participating in sit-ins, it was illegal, yet they still did it because they knew that it was the right thing to do: a shop/restaurant shouldn't discriminate against people. I know the comparison may be a little far-reaching, but it still provides the same principles.

Thank you, and I respect and look up to those black people because they were doing something that would actually bring attention & fix the problem. Nowadays it just seems like people are still living in the 1900s when yes there are problems in the US and the police force. 100% and you can kneel as much or as little as you want to. If kneeling does something to lessen police brutality, I'll be just respecting and moved by the people who had the guts to do that, but if it doesn't we need to find other ways to combat the issue.

[misunderstood 8,736]

3 minutes ago, SolidSnake said:

1) If you dont care about the debate quit replying to me. It seems simple enough haha.

2) their ratings were declining before kneeling as was all of Network TV, including sports.

3) Okay.

Finally you're done

 

[Morphine Prince 109,654]

The NFL has done more about this issue than the women beaters they have as players. 

The NFL and the culture surrounding it is all part of the nationalistic sick patriotism that has brainwashed a large portion of the American people. A culture of violence, war, xenophobia, racism. Donald Trump represents a portion of this country VERY well. This country’s culture will be its demise. This is part of why we have shootings every week. 

Those of us who see the core issue with this country will be called unpatriotic and America haters. The truth hurts. 

[REALITY 80,162]

1 minute ago, misunderstood said:

Thank you, and I respect and look up to those black people because they were doing something that would actually bring attention & fix the problem. Nowadays it just seems like people are still living in the 1900s when yes there are problems in the US and the police force. 100% and you can kneel as much or as little as you want to. If kneeling does something to lessen police brutality, I'll be just respecting and moved by the people who had the guts to do that, but if it doesn't we need to find other ways to combat the issue.

I mean, who knows, maybe kneeling will have an impact on governmental policies or social outlooks on certain issues. With the sit-ins, black people would literally just sit in diners and restaurants and wait to be served. Many times they would get beaten and/or just thrown out, and many times they were arrested. Again, while it's not the same exact comparison, there are similarities. Maybe if enough people kneel enough times, it'll finally tell Congress, or whoever, to do something about it.