USA Live Debt Clock Surging

[Economy 53,076]

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

 

Now it includes personal debts and States and revenues too how cool. Last time i saw it was on the debt of the US Federal Government

 

Figures look pretty accurate tho i assume everyday they must have to make adjustments cuz the "live feed" must be programed projections divided by each second.

 

The speed stuff is moving at tho 😳

[Gaga Monster 13,001]

We pay so much interest on our debt, it is a problem that may never be solved till something crashes. About 10% of all federal spending is just on paying interest on the debt we already have.

[Bloody hooker 6,445]

I remember watching this (and yes I mean watching ) in Economics class last year. It's really sad how much debt the country is in, and it will continue to grow no matter what.

[Economy 53,076]

11 hours ago, Gaga Monster said:

We pay so much interest on our debt, it is a problem that may never be solved till something crashes. About 10% of all federal spending is just on paying interest on the debt we already have.

My Province also pays 10% of budget for interest

 

also this is with historically low rates. What if bond yields go from the current 2% to the more normal 4% to 5% in a few years?  

[Woolfsmck 2,763]

Interest paid is taxable revenue for the debtor tho

[Economy 53,076]

1 hour ago, Woolfsmck said:

Interest paid is taxable revenue for the debtor tho

How high are taxes on that there???? I assume only a fraction would come back

[Luc 4,776]

You could also argue that the US needs foreign debt, as it's the only way that money is pouring into the country and a good way to drive up demand for dollars and make the dollar stronger, both resulting in greater geopolitical influence and a more stable economy. For sure, a 2-3% deficit is quite high, but a surplus definitely is not optimal for a country that's otherwise running a gigantic trade deficit and a country that's been deregulated to an extent where accumulation of private debt can lead to another bubble bursting. A 1% deficit is optimal unless stimulus is necessary for a recession. The difference between European countries like Germany, with a big budget surplus, and the US, with a big budget deficit, is that Germany has a gigantic trade surplus and the US does not. Germany's budget surplus does not lead to economic decline. The difference between Greece and the US is that Greece needs lower debt for confidence in their economy in order to lower interest rates. Investors trust the US economy and know it's never going to default, thus a lower deficit wouldn't necessarily result in way lower interest rates. The difference between a country like Italy and the US is that Italy has incredibly high interest rates due to overspending (think 10% budget deficits) during the 80s and needs a huge primary budget surplus to pay that and regain investor confidence.

[Economy 53,076]

1 hour ago, Luc said:

You could also argue that the US needs foreign debt, as it's the only way that money is pouring into the country and a good way to drive up demand for dollars and make the dollar stronger, both resulting in greater geopolitical influence and a more stable economy. For sure, a 2-3% deficit is quite high, but a surplus definitely is not optimal for a country that's otherwise running a gigantic trade deficit and a country that's been deregulated to an extent where accumulation of private debt can lead to another bubble bursting. A 1% deficit is optimal unless stimulus is necessary for a recession. The difference between European countries like Germany, with a big budget surplus, and the US, with a big budget deficit, is that Germany has a gigantic trade surplus and the US does not. Germany's budget surplus does not lead to economic decline. The difference between Greece and the US is that Greece needs lower debt for confidence in their economy in order to lower interest rates. Investors trust the US economy and know it's never going to default, thus a lower deficit wouldn't necessarily result in way lower interest rates. The difference between a country like Italy and the US is that Italy has incredibly high interest rates due to overspending (think 10% budget deficits) during the 80s and needs a huge primary budget surplus to pay that and regain investor confidence.

Basically everything you said

 

Thats why our last Government trying to force budget Surpluses too early worried me

 

Canadas Trade Surpluses ended in 2008 because exports fell more than consumption during great recession so more wealth was leaving than entering

 

Perhaps thats why Private debt especially Consumer debt has been rising so much  

 

We finally recently started having trade surpluses some months. Hopefully we get more going forward

 

On the US, growing energy independance may help the balance if trade long term!

[Luc 4,776]

5 minutes ago, Economy said:

Basically everything you said

 

Thats why our last Government trying to force budget Surpluses too early worried me

 

Canadas Trade Surpluses ended in 2008 because exports fell more than consumption during great recession so more wealth was leaving than entering

 

Perhaps thats why Private debt especially Consumer debt has been rising so much  

 

We finally recently started having trade surpluses some months. Hopefully we get more going forward

 

On the US, growing energy independance may help the balance if trade long term!

With the Chinese economy growing very quickly and transforming into a consumer market and the Eurozone becoming too strong to sustain its low value, I think the US' trade deficit will decline. Energy independence will help on that, too. Europe could really use some of that American/Canadian gas, especially Eastern Europe. Maybe the US currency is just too strong and they should let it decline a bit.

 

 

And yeah, money has to come from somewhere. If the government doesn't get money from foreign countries through debt (budget surplus) with no trade surplus to compensate, that could lead to private debt rising or the economy declining.

 

I expected exports to be rising in Canada, though... in the Netherlands exports growth was the only thing keeping the economy growing for a few years.

 

[Petie Estie 5,736]

so....am I right in thinking the federal debt of the US doesn't matter? In so far as cutting programs and not expanding social services because it would increase our debt...like it doesn't really matter right? I always see republicans talking about how the debt is so huge and I'm like....okay but it's not like the US is paying off a credit card. Economics of a country are different. But idk how exactly. 

[Economy 53,076]

2 hours ago, SEANGT said:

so....am I right in thinking the federal debt of the US doesn't matter? In so far as cutting programs and not expanding social services because it would increase our debt...like it doesn't really matter right? I always see republicans talking about how the debt is so huge and I'm like....okay but it's not like the US is paying off a credit card. Economics of a country are different. But idk how exactly. 

A Country never has to pay it all off like a credit card ur right because its different

 

Countries borrow through Bonds. Usually 2 year, 5 year and 10 year bonds. Some Countries also issue 30+ year bonds

 

Anyone even businesses or pension funds may invest in these bonds and when the term is done the Government must pay you plus the interest. Usually they must borrow from others to pay off their maturing debt

 

Its not a problem as long as the Government doesnt default (fail to make a payment) as that destroys confidence and creates havok in markets and the economy

 

If debt grows too large its problematic in that the interest alone could keep debt growing too fast to keep up with and eventually one day you cant borrow enough to pay off due loans and you default

 

Japan has a debt to GDP of 230% (owe over twice their annual economic output) and still hasnt defaulted. Some Countries defaulted with little over 100% in the past

 

How high debt needs to be to become a critical problem depends on many factors

[Woolfsmck 2,763]

3 hours ago, Economy said:

How high are taxes on that there???? I assume only a fraction would come back

I don't know the math on this , it just occured to me that all revenue by the citizenry is taxble.  

Now, if debt is to say a World Bank, whoo would be responsible for that?  

[Economy 53,076]

1 hour ago, Luc said:

With the Chinese economy growing very quickly and transforming into a consumer market and the Eurozone becoming too strong to sustain its low value, I think the US' trade deficit will decline. Energy independence will help on that, too. Europe could really use some of that American/Canadian gas, especially Eastern Europe. Maybe the US currency is just too strong and they should let it decline a bit.

 

 

And yeah, money has to come from somewhere. If the government doesn't get money from foreign countries through debt (budget surplus) with no trade surplus to compensate, that could lead to private debt rising or the economy declining.

 

I expected exports to be rising in Canada, though... in the Netherlands exports growth was the only thing keeping the economy growing for a few years.

 

The growth of the Chineese consumption Domestic economy is the best bet for a balancing on trade between developed Nations and the Developing world

[Economy 53,076]

22 minutes ago, Woolfsmck said:

I don't know the math on this , it just occured to me that all revenue by the citizenry is taxble.  

Now, if debt is to say a World Bank, whoo would be responsible for that?  

No Clue how that would work tbh

 

edit: i assume whatever tax policy applies to a forein investor would apply to the world bank or IMF?

[Petie Estie 5,736]

39 minutes ago, Economy said:

A Country never has to pay it all off like a credit card ur right because its different

 

Countries borrow through Bonds. Usually 2 year, 5 year and 10 year bonds. Some Countries also issue 30+ year bonds

 

Anyone even businesses or pension funds may invest in these bonds and when the term is done the Government must pay you plus the interest. Usually they must borrow from others to pay off their maturing debt

 

Its not a problem as long as the Government doesnt default (fail to make a payment) as that destroys confidence and creates havok in markets and the economy

 

If debt grows too large its problematic in that the interest alone could keep debt growing too fast to keep up with and eventually one day you cant borrow enough to pay off due loans and you default

 

Japan has a debt to GDP of 230% (owe over twice their annual economic output) and still hasnt defaulted. Some Countries defaulted with little over 100% in the past

 

High high debt needs to be to become critical depends on many factors

oh thanks for taking the time to type all that out! Makes sense now