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Gaga needs to stop being afraid of flopping


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AlexanderLevi2
22 minutes ago, Didymus said:

Eh. I never liked that argument because if you actually read the reviews, they did treat of the music specifically and did express their discontent about the music specifically. I feel like fans need to come up with these myths just to be able to avoid a very in itself harmless truth: the critics didn't like the album. So what. Like you said: critical reviews don't determine personal appreciation, so then why do we need to pretend reviews aren't what they were?

The argument was part of a critic's review, however, not from a fan base perspective. Bias can be easily hidden in a review and a critic doesn't have to say "I don't like her" in the review to show that bias.

But I'm sick and laying in bed and need sleep so I'm logging out :giveup: Surprisingly hard to type when you have a fever :giveup:

Currently listening to Joanne
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Didymus
Just now, AlexanderLevi2 said:

But I'm sick and laying in bed and need sleep so I'm logging out :giveup: Surprisingly hard to type when you have a fever :giveup:

Aww.

Get better soon :sara::hug:

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venusfly
24 minutes ago, Didymus said:

Why don't you just respond to the arguments instead of resorting to these ridiculous personal attacks? I didn't do that to you (though I very well could have) so why are you doing it to me?

I simply corrected your false statements to the best of my abilities, and I didn't even put my own opinion on it, I literally presented things as they happened, as we know they happened. Has nothing to do with a deluded sense of superiority, at least not here, you can bring that argument in a thread where I'm acting like that, but not here 'cause I'm not acting like it.

Instead you're pointing that self-defeating "you're not as smart as you think you are" (*pause for laughter*) finger at me again because you can't handle an argumented discussion when you're proven wrong.

I don't care if you read my replies or not, I will still post them so that other people might read them, esp. when it's about correcting false statements/fan myths.

Don't try it .. I've given him receipts about ARTPOP performing pretty bad commercially but all I get is "don't call me dumb!" and "the media tried to tear her down" every time

:saladga:

 

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Didymus
9 minutes ago, Florian said:

You honestly need to chill :toofunny:

Not kissing Didy's ass but he did no wrong on this topic, he only discussed which is the pretty goal of a forum. Sometimes he does it with a little attitude (:green:)but not even here.

If you can't handle opinions that are different than yours maybe you should check yourself, or re-evaluate the relevancy of your presence on this forum.

tumblr_inline_nvlmqcKsCj1soi7l4_500.gif

I can be a c-nt but I know I wasn't here :koons::laughga:

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2 hours ago, Didymus said:

Then why work with him at all? :koons: That's what I've been wondering.

Not really true. Lots of her competition has already done jazz performances, Christina even performed with Tony on tv already long before Gaga and she performed at a jazz festival in 2014 months before the C2C era started. She also of course did her Back to Basics era which was a modern take on old-school jazz and soul. Ariana performed with Michael Bublé and even did a semi-classical duet with Andrea Bocelli. Beyoncé has done jazz renditions of her own songs live as well as singing soul standards such as At Last, which she also ended up releasing as a single. And of course she starred in Dreamgirls, where she sang 60's/70's style R&B non-stop. Nicole Scherzinger did Webber standards live on tv and took part in a new version of the musical Cats, both to rave reviews. The list goes on.

The only thing Gaga added to the gist of those examples is that she made a whole jazz era and went on a tour with Tony. While that's of course admirable, you can ask yourself the question if that was really a daring thing to do. She already showcased her jazz capabilities multiple times throughout her career, mostly of course by appearing on Tony's Duets II album with Tramp which got a music video. She didn't really show anything that we hadn't seen before, except for a few incredibly emotional performances of La vie en rose and Lush Life, but she could've just done the PBS special and called it a day, doing a few performances here and there. The fact that she extended her dipping her toe in some jazz into a full-length era is not a step up from her peers at all. A cynic might say it was a safe commercial decision since she could get plenty of headlines and success (simply for being Lady Gaga who could actually sing) while not releasing one original thing for two years. In the end though the C2C album was not critically appreciated, the reviews summing up what could count for the whole era: did we really need this?

The C2C era and all that it involved (Sound of Music tribute for instance) was a very safe choice for her. She was bound to impress easily just because people didn't expect her to be able to pull off those performances (which does not mean she pulled off incredible performances that are vastly superior to those of her peers), and she could stay more or less relevant in the public eye without doing anything related to the brand that wore off, and she could manufacture a tremendous anticipation for her next album, solely because of her vocal talent (which in itself has nothing to do with interest in her act). This does put a huge amount of pressure on her next album because it has to satisfy all those expectations. But if she pulls it off, the gains will be tremendous. Which I'm sure is why it's taking so long to make this thing.

The last daring thing she did was collaborating with Robert Wilson for the Louvre.

You really have got it all figured out I see but doing a performance like Christina and Ariana did is something she (Gaga) has done as u mentioned and covering her songs as jazz tunes like Beyoncé isn't new to Gaga but navigating ur career like Taylor swift did, from country to pop is daring and ofcos has a higher percentage of risk, and don't forget the sound of music could have gone south also the national could have become the most hated thing in America also her acting. But am not here to argue what daring is, but for me 2015 till date have shown Gaga taking risk and that's ultimately daring to me

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ryhanna

Won't lie, I'm a bit out of the loop since I lost interest for a while, but I don't know if being "afraid to flop" is the issue. I mean, understandable if it is - who wants a repeat of ARTPOP? Ew. 

But I dunno, I still feel like she's just purposefully taking her time with this one, to explore new avenues and decide what kind of direction she wants to go in from this point. 

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Didymus
1 minute ago, Denys said:

You really have got it all figured out I see but doing a performance like Christina and Ariana did is something she (Gaga) has done as u mentioned and covering her songs as jazz tunes like Beyoncé isn't new to Gaga but navigating ur career like Taylor swift did, from country to pop is daring and ofcos has a higher percentage of risk, and don't forget the sound of music could have gone south also the national could have become the most hated thing in America also her acting. But am not here to argue what daring is, but for me 2015 till date have shown Gaga taking risk and that's ultimately daring to me

Well, yeah, that's true. It definitely wasn't just a cake walk for her to pull all of that off, I guess I was talking more about the "idea" of doing it. But you're right, it could've failed easily, esp. next to a legend like Tony, and the national anthem indeed, so it is a testament to her talent in any case for sure :flutter:

But yeah. Different kind of risk I guess. But thanks for bringing that up, I don't want to give off the wrong impression. I enjoyed the C2C era more than most fans probably. Very well organized, very well done, and a smart move on her part. Was it the most interesting/daring move for her? No. But for a "break" between albums it was sensational for sure.

And I'm excited for the next jazz album :sis:

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Gardevoir
2 hours ago, M I M I Z said:

His job is to manage her career not her life.

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and yet he managed her career after 2014 more than perfectly

0fgUXMo.gif

 

Sugar, spice, and everything nice.
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Katsuki Bakugo
1 hour ago, Drunk Poet said:

Okay, what I'm trying to say is that Gaga wasn't and isn't stupid. The reason I say she predicted it, is because she knew it was a high possibility, and definitely wouldn't put it past the media. And she was right not to. You say she isolated her fans with BTW? Please. That's just ludicrous. I think you underestimate the power and influence of the media. People lost interest in her for LGBT campaigning? Hate to break it to you, those aren't the kind of people who's interest you'd want. If you aren't upsetting some people, you're doing something wrong. 

And as for ARTPOP not 'being up to par with her previous work', or in other words, not up to your high standards, I have to laugh when you call people delusional for simply adoring the entirety of the album. It's a good thing, believe it or not, because it brings many people a lot of joy. 

I am genuinely sickened, when I see that when people express their love for the whole album, people on this site scoff, smugly laugh, self-righteously dismiss them, as if they're some delusional idolizing brainwashed sheep, and that the people who scoff do so as if they're soooo intelligent and educated and think it's so correct to not like a lot of the album. It's sickening. The holier-than-thou attitude is sickening. I'm educated, a free thinker, strong-minded and very critical, and I loved the entirety of ARTPOP because I had a beautiful, personal experience with it over a long period of time, away from the media, away from the internet, away from this forum. Fine if you didn't like some of it. You'll notice I don't criticise you for it, as that's your opinion.  So I'll ask you and every other all-seeing all-knowing critic on here to not criticise myself and others who loved the whole album. The concept of respect is lost on some people. 

I wasn't criticising you, if you re-read my post, for loving ARTPOP, I am glad that you do, everyone is different. I was saying those who think she planned her career or planned to flop just to return big again are delusional. You restated your view and I can see that, but I don't feel I was critising you for liking the album, as I said you can love it and critque it. If you took it that way I apologise as that was not my intent. 

I as well had a great experience with ARTPOP as I didn't focus on the era at the time but enjoyed the music by itself, but for me it didn't reach her greatest potential, but I find myself listening to it more than any other album - so I am certain that proves I don't hate it, not that I have to orove that but you know. I am just of a different mind and see the era and album experience for others as messy, the reception was poor and it wasn't her best output, imagery wise or anything. (Vocally and thematically through performances though, for me, her best) I am a TFM/BTW kind of Gaga stan, the darkness I love, and thats how I perceive ARTPOP as one of her darkest times searching for the light.

I hope that cleared my statement earlier up, as I do value your input but I do think the notion that Gaga is this creative mastermind who has her career planned out to be foolish as it has proven she has changed her tactics many times and is a whole new woman and this Gaga now, is returning to the one I love. 

If All You Ever Do Is Look Down On People, You Won't Be Able To Recognize Your Own Weaknesses.
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HighlandHeart
2 hours ago, Florian said:

You honestly need to chill :toofunny:

Not kissing Didy's ass but he did no wrong on this topic, he only discussed which is the pretty goal of a forum. Sometimes he does it with a little attitude (:green:)but not even here.

If you can't handle opinions that are different than yours maybe you should check yourself, or re-evaluate the relevancy of your presence on this forum.

honestly don't need to do anything. And it doesn't seem to be me here who can't handle differences of opinion, considering you've blatantly patronised me in response to my own. I don't need to re-evaluate anything, and I'll have you know that my relevancy is perfectly adequate. I don't take fools kindly, and I certainly don't take misinformation lightly. There are impressionable people here. So simply because some diva with an 'attitude', as you put it, has a polar opposite opinion from my own, doesn't merit insulting me, insulting my intelligence, and blatantly singling me out, contradistinguishing me and attempting to exclude me and my 'relevance' or 'need' to be on this forum like some school playground bully. 

I'll reiterate for your sake, I don't need to chill at all. I'm perfectly fine. I think I'm probably one of the few here who can actually defend myself accurately whilst remaining calm behind my screen as opposed to exploding red-faced. Now, if you have some personal problem with me, feel free to pm me. Otherwise, in the words of Didy, just quit it. 

If you don't have shadows you're not standing in the light.
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DeanWinchester

@Didymus Would you mind sharing those specific reviews that focused on the music of ARTPOP please? I'm genuinely curious as most I've read were vague and generic descriptions about the album and like one or two songs but a lot of the reviews always mentioned Gaga and her theatrics before even writing 2-3 lines about how they didn't like the music. On the other hand, I've read a few reviews that breaks down the songs and their structure and yet actually praise her for thinking out of the box.

Flyin' like a 1000 Doves
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Didymus
8 minutes ago, A Gaga Lad said:

@Didymus Would you mind sharing those specific reviews that focused on the music of ARTPOP please? I'm genuinely curious as most I've read were vague and generic descriptions about the album and like one or two songs but a lot of the reviews always mentioned Gaga and her theatrics before even writing 2-3 lines about how they didn't like the music. On the other hand, I've read a few reviews that breaks down the songs and their structure and yet actually praise her for thinking out of the box.

To be honest, the majority of reviews focuses on the music lol. They're easily found. Here for instance. When the theatrics do get mentioned, it's only to state that the music isn't living up to the adventure of her persona, which is a criticism that's been aimed at her ever since 2008 so anyone using that aspect of the reviews to pretend the ARTPOP reviews specifically were biased are just talking out of their asses.

The only ones that fit the description of "they're focusing on her persona and not the music" are the ones at the very end of the list, though some of them still treat of the music in detail. The one for The Quietus really is the only review that seems to me to prefer talking about a narrative of her career instead of the actual album. 90% of those on that list are disappointed with the music, not out to destroy her career.

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arthurhmangum

I disagree. I think the redone songs just didn't fit her vision for the album. 

Stressed, depressed, but well dressed.
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3 hours ago, Emigrante said:

and yet he managed her career after 2014 more than perfectly

0fgUXMo.gif

 

I love that gif :wub:

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