uo111 5,283 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I think thing a lot of members are missing is the idea of respect toward the animal, that's the difference between hunting to eat and hunting for fun, with hunting to eat the animal is respected, their life isnt wasted it goes too a purpose it is used for consumption, yes people can survive without meat and there are thos that do but that's another arguement for another day, whereas hunting for fun has no respect for the animal as another living being, their life does not end for a purpose, their bodies are left to rote. Basically what I'm trying to say is that when you eat meat you are respecting the animal and recognising its death should serve a purpose and not go to waste, but when the animal is killed for artificial reasons such as fun or to wear the fur there is no respect, it is seen as something that is beneath even food.Hunters respect their kill a lot more than we respect the food we eat. Ordering chicken nuggets from McDonalds is not respecting an animal. You get five minutes of pleasure, then forget about it forever. Meanwhile, the chicken was born in a prison, tortured and the slaughtered in front of thousands of other chickens. That's pretty much the definition of disrespect.we aren't missing the idea of respect, in fact it's a big reason why the hypocrisy can't stand. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiphEret 1,320 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 When 99,99% of global meat eaters in the average Western country haven't even seen the animal whose meat they're buying in a store all prepared for cooking, requiring only a minimal effort on the part of the indidividual, how is that respect? And when people eat for fun and not because they actually need meat to acquire physical health, how is that not artificial?The habitual way of eating meat in our countries is not focused on food intake. Food is a culture. In most cases it's even the company and what you do besides eating that really matters during a meal. The way we eat is also beneath food, since nutrition and health are, in normal cases, not even on the figurative table. When children are being brainwashed in schools into thinking that sugar is not a d--g, that potatoes are healthy and are part of a healthy lifestyle, that a vegetarian meal is an exception to a typical meal with meat (or various sorts of meat on one plate), how can you even say that the meat industry is about food? It's about economical purposes for the people on the production end, and about entertainment and maybe 10% nutrition for the people on the consuming end.I wouldn't call that anywhere near respect. For the record: I'm not a vegetarian, I am not suggesting any change towards the future ('cause I consider that, mostly, pointless), I'm an animal lover but I don't make serious efforts to minimize their suffering, I don't even like humans for god's sake, I only care about false logic here. The animal in question doesn't know it's being killed for a purpose. That way the murder of a lion for meat or fur is equal in result, unequal in the philosophical bs people hang around it so they can live with themselves. Pretending that the animal doesn't go to waste because it ends up in our digestion system is one of the more embarrassing ways to philosophize your way out of a basic fact: people don't do anything without a purpose. You may say that the purpose of a sport hunter and a Western meat eater is different, but the result is the same: the animal dies because we consider it to be worthless.I'm not criticizing that view, just opening up the underlying current. I will keep maintaining that there is no good reason to judge hunting for sport more than the mass breeding and systematic butchering of animals we no longer need to survive. In fact, I think it's more than obvious that the latter is more repulsive by far.From all of the people defending animals especially in the meat industry you make very valid point that I agree with but why do you say being vegetarian is pointless for you? Sur le sable sur la neige, Sur les images dorées,Sur le front de mes amis, J’écris ton nom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didymus 34,380 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Hunters respect their kill a lot more than we respect the food we eat. Ordering chicken nuggets from McDonalds is not respecting an animal. You get five minutes of pleasure, then forget about it forever. Meanwhile, the chicken was born in a prison, tortured and the slaughtered in front of thousands of other chickens. That's pretty much the definition of disrespect. we aren't missing the idea of respect, in fact it's a big reason why the hypocrisy can't stand. Couldn't agree more. Ran out of likes, so Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didymus 34,380 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 From all of the people defending animals especially in the meat industry you make very valid point that I agree with but why do you say being vegetarian is pointless for you? No, I didn't mean vegetarianism, I meant calling for a change of some sort. Call me an eternal pessimist, but I think that striving for change in the world is a hopeless cause on more than one level. In the end, it doesn't matter how many lives you save, eventually they'll die as well and end up in the same abyss of the atheist afterlife as you will, neither of you having even the neurological capacity to remember what you did or was done for you. Which seems to turn every goal in life into a hilarious Sisyphus act. But let's not get into that I only brought it up to explain why I'm not calling for the outlawing of hunting or eating meat while still attacking underlying hypocrisies. Which is as pointless as saving lives, surely, but it passes the time and makes me feel accomplished on an a--lytical level Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiphEret 1,320 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 No, I didn't mean vegetarianism, I meant calling for a change of some sort. Call me an eternal pessimist, but I think that striving for change in the world is a hopeless cause on more than one level. In the end, it doesn't matter how many lives you save, eventually they'll die as well and end up in the same abyss of the atheist afterlife as you will, neither of you having even the neurological capacity to remember what you did or was done for you. Which seems to turn every goal in life into a hilarious Sisyphus act. But let's not get into that I only brought it up to explain why I'm not calling for the outlawing of hunting or eating meat while still attacking underlying hypocrisies. Which is as pointless as saving lives, surely, but it passes the time and makes me feel accomplished on an a--lytical level so any kind of change is pointless? then let's just go back to being beast and not thrive towards anything, why don't we kill ourselves already? Sur le sable sur la neige, Sur les images dorées,Sur le front de mes amis, J’écris ton nom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
uo111 5,283 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 so any kind of change is pointless? then let's just go back to being beast and not thrive towards anything, why don't we kill ourselves already?Be careful what you ask for, he probably doesn't disagree with that statement ;) For me it's more about the fact that outlawing hunting is a meaningless, "feel good" thing to do. It distracts people from the real issue (that is, the value of ALL life, even factory raised animals which is so despicable that I even have to say that) and makes them feel like they care about animal's well being when in reality they only care that other people enjoy hunting, because god forbid someone kill an animal they eat. It's much more valuable to use this "outrage" over hunting to point out to people that they do much worse everytime they order from a restaurant, because it might inspire real change, not misguided "outrage."Of course, the Vegetarians/Vegans can be antihunting all they want, they practice what they preach. And the people who are only bothered that it was a lion are perfecly reasonable as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didymus 34,380 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 so any kind of change is pointless? then let's just go back to being beast and not thrive towards anything, why don't we kill ourselves already? Well, I don't really have an answer to the last question. I guess that I'm hopelessly Romantic (in the German traditional sense) in that I still long for some kind of experiential freedom. A freedom through being in the world instead of experiencing freedom through images that are supposed to represent it. It's a Buddhist concept and it's something I'm very attracted to. So no, I'm not a nihilist. And I definitely don't think humanity should do what I think would be right. I can't even decide what's good for myself, I definitely don't presume to know what's best for everyone. I don't know, it's a personal thing, it's very off-topic here. You liked some posts in my blog here, so I guess you know what I'm talking about But to be entirely honest, I don't really believe that we ever transcended our beastly nature. Covered it up maybe, but the same basic urges are still there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiphEret 1,320 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Well, I don't really have an answer to the last question. I guess that I'm hopelessly Romantic (in the German traditional sense) in that I still long for some kind of experiential freedom. A freedom through being in the world instead of experiencing freedom through images that are supposed to represent it. It's a Buddhist concept and it's something I'm very attracted to. So no, I'm not a nihilist. And I definitely don't think humanity should do what I think would be right. I can't even decide what's good for myself, I definitely don't presume to know what's best for everyone. I don't know, it's a personal thing, it's very off-topic here. You liked some posts in my blog here, so I guess you know what I'm talking about But to be entirely honest, I don't really believe that we ever transcended our beastly nature. Covered it up maybe, but the same basic urges are still there. I know, I just wanted to get more substance from what you wrote but you are right we are off topic. however you made very valid point such as at the end killing for sport or for food is the same result so indeed there is a lot of hypocrisy. But maybe I'll stop by your blog later and we can continue there ;) Sur le sable sur la neige, Sur les images dorées,Sur le front de mes amis, J’écris ton nom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsterOfSpain 8,331 Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Would it feel like that if you had to kill the animal you're eating with your own hands then? If yo don't want to eat animals because you have to kill them what would you eat then? Because plants are living beings too, I don't know what would you base your alimentation off And that's why I think eating and hunting are two completely different things, eating is indispensable for survival and hunting it's just a hobby. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiphEret 1,320 Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 If yo don't want to eat animals because you have to kill them what would you eat then? Because plants are living beings too, I don't know what would you base your alimentation off And that's why I think eating and hunting are two completely different things, eating is indispensable for survival and hunting it's just a hobby. I am sorry but when you pick up a strawberry from the ground do you hear it screaming in pain? I see your point but if you really think that meat is the only thing we can eat, man you must have a lot of deficiency... Human aren't designed to eat big quantity of meat. We aren't carnivore, and omnivore doesn't mean anything. It just means that you can eat something that may not be for you and not die out of it straight away. If i drink a whole bottle of shampoo it won't kill me , but it won't do any good either. A cat is mostly carnivore, yet we feed them some weird cat food full of gluten, and other **** and they don't straight away... Our digestive track, our teeth, is best to consume fruits, veggies, nuts, occasionally insects and small animals. Not a steak everyday, even less cooked meat. But we find it tasty and traditions die hard so that's why most people will find excuses to eat meat. Sur le sable sur la neige, Sur les images dorées,Sur le front de mes amis, J’écris ton nom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
liz89 373 Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 The only reason anyone is stil talking about it is because some people can't admit that our culture of meat consumption is wrong and inhumane on the same basis as hunting for sport is deemed to be the same. Anyway, that's the last I'll say about this. Just clarifying my intentions for bringing it up. I can't agree more with you! Thanks! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow 6,697 Posted August 3, 2015 Author Share Posted August 3, 2015 Fantastic... More of this stuff is surfacing in the media... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/southafrica/11779906/American-huntress-sparks-fury-by-posting-selfie-with-dead-giraffe-in-South-Africa.html http://www.today.com/news/idaho-huntress-sabrina-corgatelli-speaks-out-after-her-kill-photos-t36146 Here are some interesting debates for those focused on this this aspect of this issue: http://www.opposingviews.com/i/debate-are-humans-omnivores https://www.vrg.org/nutshell/omni.htm http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2012/04/20/150817741/for-most-of-human-history-being-an-omnivore-was-no-dilemma Stand in the light, cast your shadow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goosey 3,017 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Fantastic... More of this stuff is surfacing in the media... Giraffes are rated "Least Concern" by the I. U. C. N. (International Union for the Conservation of Nature). "Most giraffe species are of no concern to conservationists." The other animals she killed, wildebeest, warthog, impala, there's nothing wrong with hunting those (apart from the fact she's not eating them.) I'm just saying, you don't see this kind of outrage on social media when a hunter shoots a bighorn sheep or a Dall ram. I'm pretty sure most of the people commenting on that photo think giraffes are endangered animals like elephants, rhinos or lions. "I am the world's greatest person that does not want to let people into the country."—US President Donald J. Trump Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highway10 1,072 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 i became a vegetarian couple of years ago because i just hate seeing animals being killed and tortured everyday trust me you will love eating vegetables and fruits everyday Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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