Whispering 18,865 Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 oh, sorry, my miss in that part. But regardless, my point still remains. Songwriting elements are the melody, structure, tempo, keys, beats, chord progression, dynamics, harmony, structure, arrangement, guitar strums, keyboard/synth, and bass lines. It's not just the lyrics. Producers (specially in the world of pop music) get songwriting credits for composing the elements that I named above. And 98% of the people you named are credited as producers on Katy's songs. Someone had to compose those elements, and i don't think Katy was the one who done it. Most of the ones you named were not there to write or contribute to the lyrics. They are songwriters, who have written lyrics for multiple pop girls. They weren't brought in to add to the instrumentals. A couple have won major awards for writing lyrics to other songs. They are not coming in to add guitar stems and bass lines. No, 98 per cent of the people I listed in this thread and in the other one were not listed as producers...quit exaggerating! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas 25,716 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Let's hope Gaga and Katy won't release in same period this time, not here for comparisons and the media (and fans) putting them against each other again...If Adele, Katy and Taylor release, Gaga will be so overshadowed omg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kacey Elizabeth 900 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 They are songwriters, who have written lyrics for multiple pop girls. They weren't brought in to add to the instrumentals. A couple have won major awards for writing lyrics to other songs. They are not coming in to add guitar stems and bass lines. No, 98 per cent of the people I listed in this thread and in the other one were not listed as producers...quit exaggerating! Sure jan. if you look at Katy's One of the Boys, Teenage Dream, and PRISM Wikipedia pages, you'll see that 98% of the ones you named are credited as producers. I'm not exaggerating. They were not there to write the lyrics. None of their awards specifically state that they're for lyrics. They're given to them for songwriting, and according to that link that i sent you about a songwriter, it talks about songwriting as something more than just writing the lyrics and mentions the involvement with writing the lyrics only once. Songwriter =/= lyricist in most cases. The songs that they wrote/composed for other pop girls had a separate lyricist writing the lyrics to them. Your Candy Perfume Girl Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kacey Elizabeth 900 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 well i can tell you now she will most definitely have Luke on her next album else half her selling power is gone. and if he isn't she's reached her peak now so the only way to go is down sadly for her, so she will most definitely not have as much overrated attention as this era got (the attention it got was deserved by OOTB because it's actually good and doesn't sound like a Garnier advert soundtrack)Firework is probably Katy's most iconic hit and is among her best-selling and most successful, and it isn't associated with Dr. Luke at all. Let's not act like Dr. Luke was the only one responsible for Katy's success. Your Candy Perfume Girl Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whispering 18,865 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Sure jan. if you look at Katy's One of the Boys, Teenage Dream, and PRISM Wikipedia pages, you'll see that 98% of the ones you named are credited as producers. I'm not exaggerating. They were not there to write the lyrics. None of their awards specifically state that they're for lyrics. They're given to them for songwriting, and according to that link that i sent you about a songwriter, it talks about songwriting as something more than just writing the lyrics and mentions the involvement with writing the lyrics only once. Songwriter =/= lyricist in most cases. The songs that they wrote/composed for other pop girls had a separate lyricist writing the lyrics to them.You are wrong. 98 percent of the people I listed were not also producers on her songs. You made that number up and it is completely incorrect. They are songwriters who write lyrics to songs, mostly for pop girls. Songwriter means lyricist, especially when they are labeled as singer-songwriters, they win major songwriting awards, or they are listed as co-writers with pop girls who need help writing songs. No, if you look at the hundreds of songs listed by all these many songwriters, you will see that they were the lyricist on most of these songs, as that is what they are hired to do...come in and give these pop girls help writing songs. I listed a few of them for you. This is another thing you are making up, just to try and make Katy look like she writes everything, but you making this up in your head sing going to make it true. If Katy wrote every hit song by herself, all she would need is Max or Luke, not all the songwriters that are listed as co-writers. I know you really want your girl to be a songwriter like Gaga or Sia, but she simply isn't. She always calls in songwriters to help her write her hit songs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pity Party 743 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Good luck to her because Prism was a ****ing mess. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sipthistea 21,099 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Good for ha I only wish this fanbase stopped carrying that much about the hits and the dates. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grenziel 538 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 You know what? I want some clash again but Gaga proving the haters this time around. I know this is kind of petty but Gags deserve some accolades and prove her prowess. Some of them want to abuse you, some of them want be abused. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kacey Elizabeth 900 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 You are wrong. 98 percent of the people I listed were not also producers on her songs. You made that number up and it is completely incorrect. They are songwriters who write lyrics to songs, mostly for pop girls. Songwriter means lyricist, especially when they are labeled as singer-songwriters, they win major songwriting awards, or they are listed as co-writers with pop girls who need help writing songs. No, if you look at the hundreds of songs listed by all these many songwriters, you will see that they were the lyricist on most of these songs, as that is what they are hired to do...come in and give these pop girls help writing songs. I listed a few of them for you. This is another thing you are making up, just to try and make Katy look like she writes everything, but you making this up in your head sing going to make it true. If Katy wrote every hit song by herself, all she would need is Max or Luke, not all the songwriters that are listed as co-writers. I know you really want your girl to be a songwriter like Gaga or Sia, but she simply isn't. She always calls in songwriters to help her write her hit songs. I don't need to make it out to be that Katy is a songwriter like Gaga, Sia, Lana, etc. because she is one. I'm not lying, you're the one with your delusional and false facts. Songwriting =/= lyricism. You don't even know the difference between songwriter and lyricist. That's why they have different descriptions and even different wiki pages, and are not classified as the same thing. Maybe you should get an education and try harder? Instead of trying way too hard to discredit Katy (and failing at it because you are blatantly lying and denying facts presented). 98% of the people you named have never talked about writing the lyrics of the songs from other artists that they're associated with and they have production credits on those songs, and that says a lot. Out of all the people you've named, only Cathy Dennis, Stacy Barthe, and Jonatha Brooke don't have production credits, but all others do. Here are the receipts (go to the track-listing section): https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_of_the_Boys_(Katy_Perry_album) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teenage_Dream_(Katy_Perry_album) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prism_(Katy_Perry_album)How about instead of just ranting and babbling, you show me proof and receipts for the very first time, instead of repeating the same lies over and over again without knowing what you're talking about? How about learn the difference between a songwriter and lyricist & understand what songwriting is and what element it involves? How about using common sense and proper thinking to put all this together and see for yourself? How about you do some research about the songs from other other pop girls that people you named were involved with and know who had the role of composing the music and who had the role of writing the lyrics? I know you won't though. You've gone too far with your misunderstanding and you have believed your own lies and false and delusional 'facts' way too much. My information and facts are from reality and the truth, whereas yours are just made-up lies and denial. Talking to you is like talking to a wall. Btw, Katy wrote Hot N Cold, E.T., and The One That Got Away (lyrically and melodically) all on her own, and Dr. Luke and Max Martin (and Ammo who is a well known producer for E.T.) composed the instrumental track without anybody else involved. So she can write hit songs on her own. Try again. Your Candy Perfume Girl Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelbHawker 6,583 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 No-one cur bout KP4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whispering 18,865 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I don't need to make it out to be that Katy is a songwriter like Gaga, Sia, Lana, etc. because she is one. I'm not lying, you're the one with your delusional and false facts. Songwriting =/= lyricism. You don't even know the difference between songwriter and lyricist. That's why they have different descriptions and even different wiki pages, and are not classified as the same thing. Maybe you should get an education and try harder? Instead of trying way too hard to discredit Katy (and failing at it because you are blatantly lying and denying facts presented). 98% of the people you named have never talked about writing the lyrics of the songs from other artists that they're associated with and they have production credits on those songs, and that says a lot. Out of all the people you've named, only Cathy Dennis, Stacy Barthe, and Jonatha Brooke don't have production credits, but all others do. Here are the receipts (go to the track-listing section): https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_of_the_Boys_(Katy_Perry_album) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teenage_Dream_(Katy_Perry_album) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prism_(Katy_Perry_album) So....three out of six is 98 per cent? See how you just pull things out of the air and keep repeating them. And yes, the people I listed are all credited as writing lyrics on multiple songs. I did the research and I also used a music contact I have, to get the password needed to look at songs from publishing companies. Sia, Gaga and Lana write their songs! Katy has a lot of help. The people I listed are not only involved in a large percentage on Katy's songs, they are as well on other pop girls songs. Now, Katy isn't as bad as Beyonce, with her 3 to 10 per cent on some songs, (and Beyonce never claimed to be writing her songs) but she's got a lot of people doing a great deal of songwriting for her. You know why she has award winning lyricists coming in to help? Because they end up writing and being credited on a big percentage of the song. Just the fact that you had no idea that Desmond Child is one of the biggest songwriters around, and keep referring to singer-songwriters, songwriters who have won Grammys for writing lyrics, and been inducted into the Songwriters Hall of Fame as people who are "adding instrumentals and tempos to songs", shows how far off you are. You really want Katy to be a songwriter like Gaga, Lana or Sia but she isn't. Everyone in the industry knows that. Anyone who has ever looked at the publishing rights on publishing companies knows that. That probably explains why she isn't viewed as a songwriter like the three you listed and given songwriting awards like Gaga and Sia. It also explains why she never wins the Grammys she has been nominated for, as all the industry insiders know the percentages and they know that the people she is working with are the hired guns of the pop girl world. Yes, that means Katy will get hits, when you are hiring the best of the best, but it doesn't mean you are going to get widespread industry respect like other artists. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kacey Elizabeth 900 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 So....three out of six is 98 per cent? See how you just pull things out of the air and keep repeating them. And yes, the people I listed are all credited as writing lyrics on multiple songs. I did the research and I also used a music contact I have, to get the password needed to look at songs from publishing companies. Sia, Gaga and Lana write their songs! Katy has a lot of help. The people I listed are not only involved in a large percentage on Katy's songs, they are as well on other pop girls songs. Now, Katy isn't as bad as Beyonce, with her 3 to 10 per cent on some songs, (and Beyonce never claimed to be writing her songs) but she's got a lot of people doing a great deal of songwriting for her. You know why she has award winning lyricists coming in to help? Because they end up writing and being credited on a big percentage of the song. Just the fact that you had no idea that Desmond Child is one of the biggest songwriters around, and keep referring to singer-songwriters, songwriters who have won Grammys for writing lyrics, and been inducted into the Songwriters Hall of Fame as people who are "adding instrumentals and tempos to songs", shows how far off you are. You really want Katy to be a songwriter like Gaga, Lana or Sia but she isn't. Everyone in the industry knows that. Anyone who has ever looked at the publishing rights on publishing companies knows that. That probably explains why she isn't viewed as a songwriter like the three you listed and given songwriting awards like Gaga and Sia. It also explains why she never wins the Grammys she has been nominated for, as all the industry insiders know the percentages and they know that the people she is working with are the hired guns of the pop girl world. Yes, that means Katy will get hits, when you are hiring the best of the best, but it doesn't mean you are going to get widespread industry respect like other artists. You've named David Stewart, Scott Cutler, Cathy Dennis, Anne Preven, Ted Bruner, Benny Blanco, Glen Ballard, Dave Katz, Sam Hollander, Stacy Barthe, and Jonatha Brooke. You've named eleven people. Only three out of them do not have production credits. My percent might not be exact, but it still is a accurate representation. Nice try though. There is no specific category for writing the lyrics in songwriting credits. It just says songwriting credits: [insert name] or on the music sheet of a song, it says words and music (they put them together, even though they are separate) by: [insert name]. There are some music sheets where they put credits for music and words separately, but those are very rare, and as far as I know, there isn't one for a pop song. If you look at musical sheets of pop songs (and in general), you'll see for yourself that credits for music and words are put together. They're not there separately. Informations on musical sheets and album booklets are always taken from publishing deals & companies such as ASCAP and BMI (which are the main sources for this stuff) btw. So your whole argument and 'points' such as: "Anyone who has ever looked at the publishing rights on publishing companies knows that" and "the people I listed are all credited as writing lyrics on multiple songs" are invalid and do not prove what you're trying to say. Do you know how much I laughed when you said that you used your music contact and got the password to look at songs from publishing companies? Look's like you're the one takings things out of the air. Songwriting credits of songs are available at publishing deals/companies' websites such as ASCAP and BMI. And as I said, they do not put the credits of writing the lyrics & composing the music separately. "singer-songwriters, songwriters who have won Grammys for writing lyrics, and been inducted into the Songwriters Hall of Fame as people who are "adding instrumentals and tempos to songs", shows how far off you are" name me one GRAMMY award/category which is specifically for writing the lyrics to a song. Oh, yeah, there is none. And as far as I know, there isn't an award from BMI or ASCAP which is for writing the lyrics, and even if there is one, none of the musicians you named have earned it. Again, being a songwriter is more than just writing the lyrics and is composing the music in most cases, so bringing up the Songwriters Hall of Fame doesn't prove anything. The ones (who you named) that were introduced to the SHOF, were not introduced there for/as being lyricists. I didn't know that you worked in the music industry! Therefore you know how people in that industry see Katy as a songwriter and lyricist or the creative process of writing her songs. LOL. GRAMMYs? Lana, Sia, Bob Marely, Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, Kate Bush, Freddie Mercury, and a lot of other real and talented songwriters and lyricists never won a GRAMMY. Try again. Your Candy Perfume Girl Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whispering 18,865 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Do you know how much I laughed when you said that you used your music contact and got the password to look at songs from publishing companies? k's like you're the one takings things out of the air. Songwriting credits of songs are available at publishing deals/companies' websites such as ASCAP and BMI. I don't care if you believe me or not. I worked as an intern for a radio station during summers and one of my closests and longest aquintances is a PD at that station, a top 40 station that is in the top 50 stations in the U.S. No, with the exception of the latest releases, you have to have a password to see the past catalogue. Since you have so many connections, get their password and look yourself. I use my contacts, you can use yours to find out that these publishing companies send this information out to collect money for playing or using their songs. Check into it and you will see that it is an available service for radio stations, clubs, and for others who are using songs for commercials, etc. The information is readily available for people in the music industry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JusKeepBreathin 19,311 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I hope it's good. It amazes me how two smash songs can propel an album to sell well. Roar and Dark Horse were the only two songs I liked off Prism. I hope this next one has more great songs like TD. I think there was only like one song I didn't really get into in that album. It'll be interesting to see if she has gained more of a following or lost some. As big a smash as everyone thinks Prism was it didn't outsell TD. "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." -Martin Luther King Jr. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judas Oyster 1,911 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 What is he talking MTV Queen and GaGa in 2011? Why didn't that happen? Around 8:40 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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