Pop music is not synonymous with basic or safe.

[tokyodisko 0]

I guess tokyodisco if you say so, some us just like hate basic

That's just it though, basic isn't universal and it isn't bad. Artists you like were probably considered basic at one point as well. 

[Addy Ezzie 2]

Well that's what I used to think. I thought that pop music was just silly and shallow. But I was generalizing I guess, because sure, some pop songs are shallow but others are great and meaningful. I'm not only talking about Gaga here, but pop music as a whole. 

To me, The Fame is a safe album; she doesn't take risks with it. I like that album, don't get me wrong, but it's not very complex, it's definitely something that appeals to the masses. But that changed with TFM and the other two albums. Some songs are much more complex, take Sheisse for example. I used to dislike it because it was too messy for me. Now it's one of my favorites. ARTPOP is the same, I don't think it's a safe album at all. Maybe we don't see it because we're fans, but other people might not see it as great or "easy to listen to". I mean Aura, JnD, Swine (among others) are not "basic"...

[tokyodisko 0]

Well that's what I used to think. I thought that pop music was just silly and shallow. But I was generalizing I guess, because sure, some pop songs are shallow but others are great and meaningful. I'm not only talking about Gaga here, but pop music as a whole. 

To me, The Fame is a safe album; she doesn't take risks with it. I like that album, don't get me wrong, but it's not very complex, it's definitely something that appeals to the masses. But that changed with TFM and the other two albums. Some songs are much more complex, take Sheisse for example. I used to dislike it because it was too messy for me. Now it's one of my favorites. ARTPOP is the same, I don't think it's a safe album at all. Maybe we don't see it because we're fans, but other people might not see it as great or "easy to listen to". I mean Aura, JnD, Swine (among others) are not "basic"...

Interesting. I can see what you're saying though. I think that TF however was risky musically. Not a big risk, but definitely against the norm. I think Gaga used to be a musical trendsetter and she's not doing it as much anymore. :/ And tbh the music has always outweighed everything else to me. I don't mind if the music isn't risky as long as it is well made. 

I think the album as a whole is safe by Gaga's standards, but the songs individually are mostly not, if that makes sense. I don't know how that works. I think that individually half of them are kind of boring. I usually judge an album based on how many songs could make a good first single and ARTPOP doesn't really have many options imo. 

I haven't found a good album in the past year aside from Fall Out Boy's and Natalia Kills' albums that have been nearly full of what could have been a good lead single. I'm sure there are more, but I mean in the general realm of music I listen to those were the only ones that slayed me through almost the whole albums. Even Katy, Britney, Miley, etc all had a lot of fillers. This year seemed like everyone was uncertain of what to do musically, including Gaga. 

[Addy Ezzie 2]

Interesting. I can see what you're saying though. I think that TF however was risky musically. Not a big risk, but definitely against the norm. I think Gaga used to be a musical trendsetter and she's not doing it as much anymore. :/ And tbh the music has always outweighed everything else to me. I don't mind if the music isn't risky as long as it is well made. 

I think the album as a whole is safe by Gaga's standards, but the songs individually are mostly not, if that makes sense. I don't know how that works. I think that individually half of them are kind of boring. I usually judge an album based on how many songs could make a good first single and ARTPOP doesn't really have many options imo. 

I haven't found a good album in the past year aside from Fall Out Boy's and Natalia Kills' albums that have been nearly full of what could have been a good lead single. I'm sure there are more, but I mean in the general realm of music I listen to those were the only ones that slayed me through almost the whole albums. Even Katy, Britney, Miley, etc all had a lot of fillers. This year seemed like everyone was uncertain of what to do musically, including Gaga. 

I have to agree with this. Single-wise, TF was full of it, that's for sure. But that's actually why I believe it's less risky than the others. I love that album, but it's too "pop music" for me. I must admit that I fell in love with Gaga's complexity, whether in lyrics or in the music, and I became a fan when Born This Way came out; which is probably why I don't love The Fame as much as the others. But your thread makes me want to listen to it again ! I should see it as a whole and not as individual songs, maybe that would help. It's the only Gaga album I can't see that way. I don't see a real cohesion between songs, like I see one in TFM, BTW and, to a certain extent, ARTPOP. 

 

And I also agree with what you said about other artists. I've only listened to PRISM out of the other pop albums that came out last year, but the second part of the album (starting with Ghost) is a bit more boring that the other. Proof: all the singles Katy has released are from the first part. I don't think that's a coincidence.

[tokyodisko 0]

I have to agree with this. Single-wise, TF was full of it, that's for sure. But that's actually why I believe it's less risky than the others. I love that album, but it's too "pop music" for me. I must admit that I fell in love with Gaga's complexity, whether in lyrics or in the music, and I became a fan when Born This Way came out; which is probably why I don't love The Fame as much as the others. But your thread makes me want to listen to it again ! I should see it as a whole and not as individual songs, maybe that would help. It's the only Gaga album I can't see that way. I don't see a real cohesion between songs, like I see one in TFM, BTW and, to a certain extent, ARTPOP. 

 

And I also agree with what you said about other artists. I've only listened to PRISM out of the other pop albums that came out last year, but the second part of the album (starting with Ghost) is a bit more boring that the other. Proof: all the singles Katy has released are from the first part. I don't think that's a coincidence.

I would really recommend listening through it all the way through on a nice day. The only songs I'm not crazy about are Eh Eh, MH, and PG. I still listen to them though. I always think I'll skip them, but find myself singing along.

Idk if it is because of the location I live in, but TF is a perfect soundtrack to an after club/after party transition to beach day/roadtrip and going out again the next evening.  It just harnesses so much energy and feel-good. It really encompasses the whole "everybody is famous and glamorous even if you're broke" thing Gaga wanted to do with that album and I thought her DIY superstar ideas were absolutely fantastic. I miss that about Gaga. I think her imagery was very tight and focused with TF that is what I admire about it, she threw in buzz words when she needed to and it got the feelings across.

Also I recommend Rockshow, Vanity, and Shake Your Kitty . Not on TF, but songs that compliment it extremely well. Rockshow is a masterpiece imo and a sound I'd love to hear more from her. 

 

I do like BTW for the complexity, but I think going back and forth would be more beneficial, or finding a balance.

 

Mhm! I just get the feeling that most pop albums were half-dull last year, including Bey and JT. It was as if everyone in the industry thought quantity over quality was going to work out well. 

 

 

Oh, and Summerboy might be a light pop song, but damn. Production and lyrics are flawless. Seriously. If you just let yourself enjoy it, it is great. I wasn't a fan at first. The retro vibes are added in perfectly. It's one of Gaga's most perfect pop songs imo. I think everything about TF was executed well in that aspect. It's why I think she needs to work with RedOne again. His productions are clean even if LMs think he's basic now (of course now Zedd and DJWS are becoming basic too bc they're branching out smh  ). They made magic together. Gaga's vocals, while less showcased showed how tight of control she had. 

[Addy Ezzie 2]

I would really recommend listening through it all the way through on a nice day. The only songs I'm not crazy about are Eh Eh, MH, and PG. I still listen to them though. I always think I'll skip them, but find myself singing along.

Idk if it is because of the location I live in, but TF is a perfect soundtrack to an after club/after party transition to beach day/roadtrip and going out again the next evening.  It just harnesses so much energy and feel-good. It really encompasses the whole "everybody is famous and glamorous even if you're broke" thing Gaga wanted to do with that album and I thought her DIY superstar ideas were absolutely fantastic. I miss that about Gaga. I think her imagery was very tight and focused with TF that is what I admire about it, she threw in buzz words when she needed to and it got the feelings across.

Also I recommend Rockshow, Vanity, and Shake Your Kitty . Not on TF, but songs that compliment it extremely well. Rockshow is a masterpiece imo and a sound I'd love to hear more from her. 

 

I do like BTW for the complexity, but I think going back and forth would be more beneficial, or finding a balance.

 

Mhm! I just get the feeling that most pop albums were half-dull last year, including Bey and JT. It was as if everyone in the industry thought quantity over quality was going to work out well. 

 

 

Oh, and Summerboy might be a light pop song, but damn. Production and lyrics are flawless. Seriously. If you just let yourself enjoy it, it is great. I wasn't a fan at first. The retro vibes are added in perfectly. It's one of Gaga's most perfect pop songs imo. I think everything about TF was executed well in that aspect. It's why I think she needs to work with RedOne again. His productions are clean even if LMs think he's basic now (of course now Zedd and DJWS are becoming basic too bc they're branching out smh  ). They made magic together. Gaga's vocals, while less showcased showed how tight of control she had. 

Thanks for the advice! I'll do that  :)

And I couldn't agree more about Summerboy. It's my favorite song from TF. Last summer I would listen to it all the time. I love her voice in that song. 

Imma bop to The Fame and let it all go like crazy. I'm gonna celebrate after I've finished my essay, because it means: end of that freaking annoying semester 

[tokyodisko 0]

Thanks for the advice! I'll do that  :)

And I couldn't agree more about Summerboy. It's my favorite song from TF. Last summer I would listen to it all the time. I love her voice in that song. 

Imma bop to The Fame and let it all go like crazy. I'm gonna celebrate after I've finished my essay, because it means: end of that freaking annoying semester 

Hahaha perfect! TF will be great for that! Good luck with your essay!

 

Also, if you like Summerboy, you should check out Fever. It gives me the same feels. 

[VforVendetta 2,024]

IKAG was a big risk for 2008 America. I didn't try to name many risks, because that is not the point. My point was she is more risky than other artists like Demi or Selena. This is an internet forum and I don't feel like spending too much time debating something that you're just going to ignore anyway. Like I said, why does it matter if Katy is risky? Has she even ever claimed she wants to be risky? She wants to create fun pop music. She doesn't need to be risky. Risky doesn't make an artist any better than another, so get off your high horse and wake up to the world. It's just a matter of personal preference and to attempt to discredit another artist for your opinion is ignorant. You don't have to like what someone does to respect their careers. I think Madonna is a bitter hag now, but it doesn't mean I don't recognize and respect her when credit is due. You're a smart kid, so open your eyes to other opinions even if you don't personally agree with them. Your double standards with Gaga versus other artists is beneath you. 

 

Also, if you're going to slut shame or body shame Miley you can just gtfo tbh. She wasn't trying to be s-xy. If you think she was you missed the point. She has even said herself that there is a giant double standard with men and women and presenting s-xuality like she did. Robin's video was degrading to women, so she wanted him to be her accessory in the performance. People say Gaga's performance overshadows her talent too, so maybe MIley's does as well. We should hate Miley for it? This isn't the 1950s. Miley is making the music she wants, she is more honest than Gaga on stage, she doesn't try to be anything aside from herself. Her persona is a wild party girl. If you are even old enough to get drunk and go clubbing, you or friends have probably also kissed a stranger, twerked jokingly, grinded on someone, made s-xual gestures for fun, etc. She's being a 21yo girl in 2014. Welcome to the present.

 

Lorde isn't innovative. She's not original. Talented? Yes, definitely.

 

Lorde has more dignity than Miley? Oh, because she wears more clothing and isn't expressing her s-xuality in a way that isn't atypical of society's standards for women? That's cute. You have fun with your backwards thinking.

Miley is proud of her body, she's proud to be a s-xual woman. Shut that slut and body shaming bull**** down. 

I never said that Katy shouldn't be basic if that's her choice. I sai ddonj't act like Katy is innovaitve and not basic because is not, She is following the trend of the "Blond product Popstart" that Britney made back in the late 90's (and before you say that this excisted before, Britney is the symbol of this type of Popstars and she is the one that got the praise from it). 

 

Lorde is making a type of music that is not very usual in the mainstream in the first place and I am not a fan of hers but at least she is earning everything with her sword and with dignity.

 

As for the ridiculous thing you just said about Miley and calling me backwards let me tell you something. Everything has a limit and everything lose its significance when you cross that limit. In our age it is NOT revolution to expose your ass just to sell your music. The fact that miley is proud of her body doesn't mean that she has to act like a cheap slut. I didn't say that she should wear a burqa. The day that being a wh0re became a form of art and revolution, this is the day that you can officially say that the insudtry has decayed, the same as our generation that has no judgement. The thing is that the audience is the problem, the audience can't judge what is aestitically right and wrong, the audience hasn't learned to have limits. . Miley didn't do any kind of revolution, she is just an attention wh0re that couldn't sell her music and decided to sell out. This is called lack of morals. If this is a form of expression for you then I am sorry for you.

[djBuffoon 12,110]

Don't get me wrong- it's one of my favorites from her, though I think the verses could have been a bit more clear vocally and mixed better. ^^ 

I think the difference is that while your examples are very different, they still tie into the themes overall and are not as drastic as Dope to JnD to Swine to SD. I like that she gets a variety, but I think this was too much variety for one album. It makes her look messy, even if it was a planned mess.  That's what my friends said that I went to dinner with tonight. They said they like her directions, but having them all done at once felt weird. I think I agree. Part of it, I feel, is that since she worked on it for so long and was pulled in different directions by her experiences and Troy that it all kind of just tumbled out together. 

 

I don't mind her moving past the repeating and stuttering, though I do love it. I just felt like some of the lyrics were really...just bad. I think the verses in Donatella and Aura are her absolute worst work yet.

 

I think that stemmed from her being insecure though. :/ I would love to see her expand. I loooooove Y&I and Speechless so much and I think doing an album that was more cohesive would showcase it better. I have always said, I would be fine if Gaga only did EPs. 6-8 flawless songs a year with a solid direction and it's short enough that she can change it up fast or keep it similar. It's when she gets into longer albums that she loses her initial vision- also because of having too much time. More isn't always better. I could have done without half of TF/BTW/AP, not to say I don't enjoy them, but I wouldn't know they even existed, so there would be nothing to miss. ^^

Oh man, there's so much to say.

 

As for the "Sexxx Dreams" observation, I don't see a problem with the way it's mixed.

 

Overall, what I'd say is that ARTPOP is about as thematically consistent as the rest of Gaga's discography, which is admittedly loose. I'd argue that, perhaps with the exception of TF, none of her albums are on solid ground when it comes to sticking to one tangent. I could go on about how numerous songs from each album don't relate to the core message in any discernible way, but I think you've already pointed that out. Honestly, I'm here for the songwriting and the production quality. And in general, whether it's film or music or television, I would rather watch an artist aim high and miss the mark, as opposed to play safely and score. And for better or worse, that is why I hold BTW and AP in higher regard than the first two efforts.

 

And if we're going by what our friends our saying, nearly everyone that I've listened to the album with (some fans, other casual listeners) have been extremely happy with what Gaga's come up with on this piece. Go figure. They actually enjoy the fact that she veers off in such vastly different and bold directions, and so do I. I don't think any track from her should sound the same as another.

[Ronk 14,762]

It seems to be her most divisive album, amongst the fans and the GP who've actually heard it. Some say it's her best, some say it's her weakest.

This, exactly.  It's because everyone has different tastes in music.

 

Everyone believes the music they like is the best music.  What sounds basic to some people does not sound basic to many others.  Nobody should be criticized for having bad taste in music.  Each person's taste is derived from what that person was exposed to their entire life; what they heard in the house when they were young, what their friends listened to, what they came across when scanning the radio or watching TV or browsing the internet, what music was being played in places they visited, etc.  So nobody's taste is either good or bad, it's just theirs.  Happily, there are different artists writing for all the different tastes.

[Guest]

+ "basic" =/= bad

this.

[tokyodisko 0]

I never said that Katy shouldn't be basic if that's her choice. I sai ddonj't act like Katy is innovaitve and not basic because is not, She is following the trend of the "Blond product Popstart" that Britney made back in the late 90's (and before you say that this excisted before, Britney is the symbol of this type of Popstars and she is the one that got the praise from it). 

 

Lorde is making a type of music that is not very usual in the mainstream in the first place and I am not a fan of hers but at least she is earning everything with her sword and with dignity.

 

As for the ridiculous thing you just said about Miley and calling me backwards let me tell you something. Everything has a limit and everything lose its significance when you cross that limit. In our age it is NOT revolution to expose your ass just to sell your music. The fact that miley is proud of her body doesn't mean that she has to act like a cheap slut. I didn't say that she should wear a burqa. The day that being a wh0re became a form of art and revolution, this is the day that you can officially say that the insudtry has decayed, the same as our generation that has no judgement. The thing is that the audience is the problem, the audience can't judge what is aestitically right and wrong, the audience hasn't learned to have limits. . Miley didn't do any kind of revolution, she is just an attention wh0re that couldn't sell her music and decided to sell out. This is called lack of morals. If this is a form of expression for you then I am sorry for you.

 

Why would I argue that Britney wasn't the first big highly produced solo star? I never claimed she was innovative or risky, you're just throwing it around like it was mentioned. She writes her own songs (Gaga has just as many writers btw), so I respect her for doing that work. You need to respect her and her career even if you don't enjoy them. 

 

Gurl, bye. Miley isn't trying to be s-xy. She's doing it for fun, she's doing it to piss people like who you off. It's not as if her s-xuality and body are necessarily making great headlines. She's not following a trend of  "I'll show my body so people think I'm hot and buy my music". She's doing the exact opposite.  Since you're so against her ass being out, I'm sure you have had problems with Gaga back when she started doing nudes and walking around in thongs? VMAs this year must have really pissed you off. Or maybe you're just hypocritical. Madonna, Britney, Gaga, Christina, etc have all acted like "cheap sluts" and the music industry has been "decaying" from their rampant hedonism since the Beatles. Get with the times. The fact that you say MIley showing off her body and talking about s-x is a lack of morals, just shows exactly your thought process and yes, it is backwards. Slut and body shaming is not cool, especially when it is only selective. smh.  You're smarter than that. I'm so done responding to you about this.

[VforVendetta 2,024]

Why would I argue that Britney wasn't the first big highly produced solo star? I never claimed she was innovative or risky, you're just throwing it around like it was mentioned. She writes her own songs (Gaga has just as many writers btw), so I respect her for doing that work. You need to respect her and her career even if you don't enjoy them. 

 

Gurl, bye. Miley isn't trying to be s-xy. She's doing it for fun, she's doing it to piss people like who you off. It's not as if her s-xuality and body are necessarily making great headlines. She's not following a trend of  "I'll show my body so people think I'm hot and buy my music". She's doing the exact opposite.  Since you're so against her ass being out, I'm sure you have had problems with Gaga back when she started doing nudes and walking around in thongs? VMAs this year must have really pissed you off. Or maybe you're just hypocritical. Madonna, Britney, Gaga, Christina, etc have all acted like "cheap sluts" and the music industry has been "decaying" from their rampant hedonism since the Beatles. Get with the times. The fact that you say MIley showing off her body and talking about s-x is a lack of morals, just shows exactly your thought process and yes, it is backwards. Slut and body shaming is not cool, especially when it is only selective. smh.  You're smarter than that. I'm so done responding to you about this.

The fact that I was expecting that exact comment thoguh. Everything depends on the way you presend it. Gaga has showed her legs and ger ass plenty of times but in a very different way. In The VMAS Gaga was having that Venus outfit but she was NOT trashy and she was provoking at all, it was not provoking and this is why it didn't made any negative headlines. Haas Gaga done this mistake spme times? Yes she did, as you said when she was taking too many nude pics one after the other and some of them were even too mcuh + the cake video. I was against that and I did judge them. The difference is that Gaga never based her career on that, most of these Pop stars, even the Rock stars of the 50s were doing a lot of extreme things a lot of times. The difference with Miley is that her career now is all a big vagina and parody, there is nothing to admire to that. The same with other Pop and Rock stars, not only Gaga. I can't reallt makw you see that differenc eif you can't see it by yourself but I am not responsible for your judgement so I can't so anything more, And no, having morals is not body shaming. In life there is not only black in whitem it's sad that you ropinions are always like that.

[TimisaMonster 31,073]

That's just it though, basic isn't universal and it isn't bad. Artists you like were probably considered basic at one point as well. 

 

I guess tokyodisco if you say so...