Reno 79 Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Before they had a President that Crimea voted for by 78% margin. He was overthrown against their wishes, and the new govt. did some provocative things like prevent Russian from being official language in any district. Plus you hav e a lot of Russian propaganda and a lot of people who just go with the flow. All i know that Crimea was given to Ukraine by one of the early Russian leaders. If the native language was russian in Crimea than i see how this could have upset people if someone wanted to change the language there. I guess it's more complicated situation there... Lets hope this wouldn't escalate into something bigger... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melech 9,900 Posted March 10, 2014 Author Share Posted March 10, 2014 All i know that Crimea was given to Ukraine by one of the early Russian leaders. If the native language was russian in Crimea than i see how this could have upset people if someone wanted to change the language there. I guess it's more complicated situation there... Lets hope this wouldn't escalate into something bigger... Well, Russia did the same with East Prussia...Just nobody gave it to them,they just took it and made it russian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno 79 Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Well, Russia did the same with East Prussia...Just nobody gave it to them,they just took it and made it russian That's definitely something you can expect from this country Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig 680 Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Inspired by crisis, I watched a really good BBC documentary on Stalin last week. Highly recommend it In a lot of ways he was worse than Hitler. Stalin: Inside the Terror http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIzApqzlP3Q Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melech 9,900 Posted March 10, 2014 Author Share Posted March 10, 2014 That's definitely something you can expect from this country I wonder what would happen if Germany enters with army to East Prussia. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumblebee 2,528 Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 (edited) Well.. that referendum just happened in Crimea parliament, and they voted for joining Russia. The next things is the public voting by the people I'm telling you. This whole situation is not what American and European media show - Eastern/Southern Ukraine and Crimea want to join Russia or at least separate from Western Ukraine. There are 2 sides of the conflict. I think it would be reasonable for Ukraine to split in two. This has been going forever. Especially, since 70%+ of Crimea people are ethnic Russian,s and this region was given to Ukraine from Russia by Khruschev in USSR This is very reasonable indeed. I think you have overestimated the share of ethnic Russian there though, they're about 60%. I just wanna share this with you guys, cause I'm very worried over the situation as large part of my extended family lives in Crimea and I have some friends in Ukraine My grand-grandmother comes from Ukraine, she was evacuated to Russia with her sisters during the Second World War as large part of Ukraine was occupied by Hitler's army. She decided to stay in Russia after the war finished but her sisters decided to go back and now I have a large part of my extended family living in Simpferopol - that's a big city in Crimea. We call over skype regularly, and based on their words people had not necessarily wanted to join Russia before the change of the government in the capital city. And it's not it's not about the change of the government at all, it's about the way the change happened. Ukraine population is very divided on the subject of Russia and EU: if you don't trust me, read Henry Kissinger article for the Washington Post. Besides, take a look at this article in Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_presidential_election,_2010 It's about the 2010 Presidential Election, when Yanukovich (seen as pro-Russia politician) faced miss. Tymoshenko (regarded as pro-EU candidate). Yanukovich scored 12,481,000 votes, while Tymoshenko scored 11,593,000. As you see, it's almost 50-50. Besides, if you take a look at the map of preferences by regions on the right, you'll see how the deep-blue regions (where Yanukovich scored from 70% to 90% of votes) are situated in the Eastern part of the country. The dark-red regions (where Tymoshenko got 80% to 90% of votes), on the contrary, are in the Western part of the country. Crimea isn't acting like a whimsical child who only wants to be a part of Ukraine while a pro-Russian president heads the country. They have problems with understanding what actually happened in Kiev back in February. The president left the country after the public anger because of the people killed during protests reached its peak. But after the leaked phone call between Catherine Ashton and Estonian minister (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEgJ0oo3OA8) it seems clear that dead protesters and dead policemen were killed by same bullets and same snipers. There were people on the roof who were shooting both sides, and it's very unclear how it happened. It's a great tragedy, in my opinion. The media were too fast to blame it on the policemen, as the policemen were killed by the same bullets. But the anger of the crowd couldn't be stopped, and following extreme pressure and violence threats the representatives of presidential political party were forced to leave the Parliament, which gave the majority to the opposition. Crimea doesn't think it was a legal change of government and therefore has decided to split from Ukraine. Here are a few videos showing how the radical wing of pro-western and semi-nationalists are treating the officials. They are bringing guns to the political meetings http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vx8dxdt5QoU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICZYuuSpvAQ This is how they are marching through the city http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrpjQHqdRcw They are not the peaceful protesters, and a borderline nationalism organizations who think Ukraine is for Ukrainians and that everybody who loves Russia should go to Russia and leave there. They also think Ukrainian should be the only official language there although there are at least 7,500,000 ethnic Russian people who are citizens of Ukraine. I think Putin's reaction with Crimea is because he thinks there's some conspiracy going on behind the fast government change. Because I think everybody will agree on the fact, that there're dozens if not hundred of places around Earth where the violations of human rights and democracy principles are happening right now. In North Korea, for example, there're still concentration camps for having a different political opinion. In many places across Africa there're mini-civil wars. But for some reasons the politicians who claim themselves as the guardians of democracy, and who themselves bombed the f*ck out of Iraq violating the United Nations rules in the Indiana Jones quest for the nuclear missiles (White House Shade ) are not expressing a desire to protect the human rights there, instead focusing their attention on only one country. This ultimately leads to the idea that they have some reason for protecting democracy in one particular country. Which means they have some interest there. I'm not trying to paint Putin as saint, because I believe he also has pretty clear interests in the region, but it ain't as fluffy as the media portrays the situation. Apart from that, such a revolution already took place in Ukraine in 2004. After more peaceful but larger protests Viktor Yushchenko came to power. 6 years later, in 2010, he only scored 5.45% of votes, coming in fifth place, while trying to be re-elected The nature of the protests is clear: people there want change because the level of corruption is beyond anything reasonable, while the standards of living are falling. People are tired of watching politicians driving cars which cost as a city budget and want EU standards of living, which is not bad. I think that if Ukraine wants to join EU, they should do it, but only if they consider the interests of all regions, not only Kiev Edited March 11, 2014 by supersergaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melech 9,900 Posted March 12, 2014 Author Share Posted March 12, 2014 The nature of the protests is clear: people there want change because the level of corruption is beyond anything reasonable, while the standards of living are falling. People are tired of watching politicians driving cars which cost as a city budget and want EU standards of living, which is not bad. I think that if Ukraine wants to join EU, they should do it, but only if they consider the interests of all regions, not only Kiev it will be a long time when they join. Just look at turkey Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc 4,776 Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Extremely interesting article: http://time.com/11952/putin-ukraine-crimea-russia/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig 680 Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 The Cossacks are on the scene: http://time.com/22125/ukraine-crimea-cossacks-russia/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morphine Prince 109,649 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 95% of people who voted in the election in Crimea want to join Russia.... let's see how the US and EU react lol. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig 680 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 95% of people who voted in the election in Crimea want to join Russia.... let's see how the US and EU react lol. It would seem more genuine and plausible with a 70-80% vote. 95% says hanky panky or intimidation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morphine Prince 109,649 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 It would seem more genuine and plausible with a 70-80% vote. 95% says hanky panky or intimidation. That's what I was thinking.... then I saw people being interviewed and it was a large party of people celebrating Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cupid 760 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Mess at 95%, as if. These numbers are rigged and this is like the Sovjet union all over again well congrats to Russia for securing all those gas pipelines located in the Crimea area. I think the western world is a bunch of cowards right now, we're basically just watching while Russia is occupying and takes over new territories. It took Putin 3 weeks from when the troops entered Ukraine to "secure" things to having the area to himself. Disgusting. on 31th march the Crimea area will change their clocks to Moscow time and in april they will start using the russian currency. And meanwhile the US and EU are like "oh no that's wrong!" but aint doing sh*t. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HANZ 4,380 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 what, that's it? so russia took crimea just like that My Favs = Lady Gaga, Janet Jackson, Ricky Martin, AKB48 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig 680 Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 I hear some in Finland and Sweden are even talking about joining NATO. I know the poles and the Baltics states are pretty darn glad they're in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Featured Posts