Billie Eilish Responded To Criticism For Recent Vegan Statement: I Don't Give A Fxck!

[Head Empty 26,584]

2 minutes ago, PartySick said:

the industry that none of us really have control over outside of voting for certain politicians

People can also vote with their wallet (as long as plant-based alternatives are affordable).

4 minutes ago, PartySick said:

People are gonna eat meat, that's just a fact that'll probably never change. The sooner you accept that and move the goalposts to a reasonable distance, the sooner it'll stop feeling like you're bashing your head against a brick wall.

The fact is also that people used to eat way less meat, but with cheaper prices and bigger availability (aka mass 'production') people started indulging more over the past century or so.

Diets CAN change on a mass scale, based on technological, cultural and economic shifts. 

Becoming fully plant based as a society will likely never happen. But we can definitely change the amount of meat we consume as a species - like we've done in the past.

[Bebe 17,282]

10 minutes ago, PartySick said:

This is great. Objective, fact based, no notes.

This? No so much 'cause justification is subjective.

Personally, the fact that I like meat and it's an easy source of certain nutrients is justification enough for me to continue eating it  

Doesn't mean the industry doesn't need to change but you're talking about people's personal choices, not the industry that none of us really have control over outside of voting for certain politicians.

And just like the last thread, I could throw how bad farming is for the environment right back into your face as "justification" against eating plants. It's subjective and we're gonna have an impact on the planet regardless, it's about minimizing the impact in a realistic way.

Getting everyone on a rabbit food diet isn't realistic  

People are gonna eat meat, that's just a fact that'll probably never change. The sooner you accept that and move the goalposts to a reasonable distance, the sooner it'll stop feeling like you're bashing your head against a brick wall.

Morality may involve subjective judgement, but suffering is not imaginary. If your justification for harming animals is taste or convenience, then the subjectivity of morality does not make that justification strong. it just reveals that your ethics allow serious harm for minor benefit.

This isn’t about the industry needing slight changes, it is unethical to forcefully breed, keep captive and slaughter sentient beings for food when there are other opinions that don’t involve unnecessary suffering.

Just like the last thread I could point out that by moving to veganism global agricultural land use could fall by about 75–76%.

Fully aware that the majority of people won’t turn vegan, it just doesn’t excuse you! I think it is extremely dangerous to excuse unethical behaviour because it’s what is socially accepted. It shows a severe lack of moral conviction. 

 

[PartySick 171,310]

1 hour ago, Head Empty said:

The fact is also that people used to eat way less meat, but with cheaper prices and bigger availability (aka mass 'production') people started indulging more over the past century or so.

Diets CAN change on a mass scale, based on technological, cultural and economic shifts. 

Becoming fully plant based as a society will likely never happen. But we can definitely change the amount of meat we consume as a species - like we've done in the past.

I agree with that too

That was one of the messaging problems I saw when the left was pushing the eco stuff a few years ago about the meat industry. They let the right run with that "they're trying to take your cheeseburgers away!" BS when they simply could have said something like "if all Americans chose a salad over a steak just once a week that would have an enormous impact".

Small behavioral adjustments like that won't come about when you're telling people they actively choose to support the torture and cruelty towards animals  you gotta meet people where they are.

1 hour ago, Head Empty said:

People can also vote with their wallet (as long as plant-based alternatives are affordable).

People do vote with their wallets.

They buy the food that satiates them and can last a near indefinite amount of time in a freezer rather than food that spoils within a day or two and keeps them full for a few hours at best.

Again, meet people where they are. You gotta show them ways a plant based meal can be cost effective, pantry/fridge stable, personally satisfying, and good enough to at least partially replace their current diet.

And that won't be done by showing them pics of slaughtered pigs and telling them to feel bad about it

[Bebe 17,282]

23 minutes ago, River said:

It’s not policing her tone, it’s rolling the eyes at her wrong opinion and pointing out how harming it is to her cause.

It’s pretty simple.

She’s an incredible artist but she needs to grow up and learn that her voice matters for the best or for the worst, and at this particular matter it’s for the worst.

No one will go vegan for what she said, the contrary, they will stay away from it and grow to hate it..

 

She is rolling her eyes at your wrong opinion and cognitive dissonance. 

20 minutes ago, River said:

I mean, we can say the same about a nameless cow from an unknown farm with an unknown liters of milk that you bring in every conversation 🤷‍♂️

You can’t though - it’s not an equivalent. 
 

if you can talk me through where your hypothetical person lives, their current income, their current expenses etc etc then we can have a discussion about whether it is possible or reasonable for them to go vegan.

I would point out that this would simply be to entertain this straw man position and not be something that I think really holds a lot of value.

All cows used for meat or dairy are unavoidably being exploited.

Edited May 8 by Bebe

[PartySick 171,310]

2 minutes ago, Bebe said:

Morality may involve subjective judgement, but suffering is not imaginary. If your justification for harming animals is taste or convenience, then the subjectivity of morality does not make that justification strong. it just reveals that your ethics allow serious harm for minor benefit.

This isn’t about the industry needing slight changes, it is unethical to forcefully breed, keep captive and slaughter sentient beings for food when there are other opinions that don’t involve unnecessary suffering.

Just like the last thread I could point out that by moving to veganism global agricultural land use could fall by about 75–76%.

Fully aware that the majority of people won’t turn vegan, it just doesn’t excuse you! I think it is extremely dangerous to excuse unethical behaviour because it’s what is socially accepted. It shows a severe lack of moral conviction. 

Again, you're arguing morality and ethics when that's all subjective. You don't get to decide someone else's moral compass, especially when you're accusing them of extreme cruelty for having a ham sandwich or a chicken nugget  

'Cause what's to stop someone from accusing you of unimaginable crimes against humanity for using a smart phone built with slave labor or driving an electric vehicle powered by blood stained lithium mines?

It's 2026, nothing's ethical today, sis. Hell, I'm a working class American, those cattle and other livestock basically have just as many rights as I do  

Arguing ethics simply isn't a winning argument. You can tell people how evil they are until you're blue in the face, it's falling on deaf ears.

[River 125,043]

4 minutes ago, Bebe said:

She is rolling her eyes at your wrong opinion and cognitive dissonance. 

You can’t though - it’s not an equivalent. 
 

if you can talk me through where your hypothetical person lives, their current income, their current expenses etc etc then we can have a discussion about whether it is possible or reasonable for them to go vegan.

All cows used for meat or dairy are unavoidably being exploited.

I mean I can, I just did.

I can't have a discussion about an hypothetical cow, I don't even know her name or how many spots on on the back she has.

See what I did here?

in other words, your argument is weak and funny to me and it's your weak way to avoid a real discussion.

even if I bring you a real person right now, in front of you, you will find a way to avoid discussion, because this is what u do, you've been playing the same broken record in 2 threads without even trying to face the discussion itself..

Billie's opinion is a joke and you and her can feel so above everyone on some high ethical cloud, but it's just a cloud, it's not holding much weight.

[gagzus 20,282]

9 minutes ago, Bebe said:

I would once again remind people that Billie made these comments to Elle, whose target audience is millennial/gen z women with a higher-than-average disposable income.

Curious to know where you live though? A vegan diet is one of the cheapest diets in most places around the world. Many people in poverty are vegan out of necessity.

If you want to go ultra cheap the best diet you can choose is carb + legume + frozen veg + sauce/spice

Examples:

Rice + lentils + frozen veg + curry powder

Pasta + lentils + canned tomato + garlic

Potatoes + beans + cabbage + stock

Noodles + peanut butter + soy sauce + frozen veg

Bread/wrap + chickpeas + carrot + spinach + sauce

Not necessarily something I’d recommend for all but these are meals that are filling, nutritious and a lot cheaper than meat if you’re struggling to put food on the table. 

I’m not struggling now I’m lucky enough to have disposable income but I can tell you back in the 90s/early 2000s when you were a breadline family it was easier to get a burger and chips or sausages to satisfy your children when you’re in a family than spend a load of money on vegetables and avoid certain things and ingredients. I can tell you that veganism while not-not a thing when I grew up, it was definitely a non issue that was reserved for rich white celebs and anti-fur activists. 
 

I think if modern day vegans weren’t so up their own arses we’d be more inclined to listen to them, instead of it being boiled down to “you dont love animals if you eat meat” the average person who loves their pets but still eats meat isn’t gonna care about you or hear you out tbh.
 

But as I said it’s also a cultural thing because we have Halal and Kosher meat. But she would never come out and speak badly of that specifically because it would be too “ not woke “ of her to do. Having no grey area in an argument literally is a guaranteed way to lose an argument tbh. I can understand for example where vegans come from because they want the best for animal welfare and as do I but it’s not going to change the fact I eat meat l but want them to be ethically looked after and slaughtered ethically, plus cattle for example can be bred and culled where as the planet only has so much natural resources and they take too long for a planet of 7 billion people to regenerate. We also would still be using up resources that animals need but vegans NEVER see the grey area it seems instead we just get likening using cows milk and eggs to r*pe and murder for example (at least the ones I know) vegetarians however are much more inclined to see the grey area.

so yeah my stance is firm I’m afraid, I’ll happily try the food you’ve recommended but I’ll probably add some chicken or beef in there to make it flavourful.

 

 

[PartySick 171,310]

Something I don't see the "meat is evil" crowd talk about a lot is what the hell am I supposed to feed my dog?  

Even kibble is made with meat products.

Are we meant to surrender all non-herbivore pets? Or is having an animal companion also considered unethical?  

[Bebe 17,282]

12 minutes ago, PartySick said:

Again, you're arguing morality and ethics when that's all subjective. You don't get to decide someone else's moral compass, especially when you're accusing them of extreme cruelty for having a ham sandwich or a chicken nugget  

'Cause what's to stop someone from accusing you of unimaginable crimes against humanity for using a smart phone built with slave labor or driving an electric vehicle powered by blood stained lithium mines?

It's 2026, nothing's ethical today, sis. Hell, I'm a working class American, those cattle and other livestock basically have just as many rights as I do  

Arguing ethics simply isn't a winning argument. You can tell people how evil they are until you're blue in the face, it's falling on deaf ears.

Again: All you are saying is that your ethics allow for serious harm for a minor personal benefit!

That’s a position you can choose to hold! I just don’t think that is a strong justification and I think a lot of people would find that ethical framework pretty abhorrent and inconsistent with their own ethical standards and principles.

I’m not interested in trying to convince someone who has openly admitted that this is their ethical framework. What I would hope, is that by having these discussions someone who does have the capacity to extend empathy towards non-human animals will make a reasonable adjustment to avoid participating in their exploitation. 

I could discuss your critiques on technology in more detail, however for now I’ll just note that technology has environmental costs but unlike animal agriculture it isn’t inherently built on mass breeding, confinement, and slaughter. The solution to harmful technology is better technology. In comparison the solution to animal suffering is not creating victims in the first place.

[Bebe 17,282]

34 minutes ago, River said:

I mean I can, I just did.

I can't have a discussion about an hypothetical cow, I don't even know her name or how many spots on on the back she has.

See what I did here?

in other words, your argument is weak and funny to me and it's your weak way to avoid a real discussion.

even if I bring you a real person right now, in front of you, you will find a way to avoid discussion, because this is what u do, you've been playing the same broken record in 2 threads without even trying to face the discussion itself..

Billie's opinion is a joke and you and her can feel so above everyone on some high ethical cloud, but it's just a cloud, it's not holding much weight.

The cows name is Rosie and she has four spots. Don’t see how that’s relevant to whether you should go vegan or whether it is okay for her to be exploited and slaughtered.

A person’s location, socioeconomic status etc is needed before we can have a discussion on whether it is feasible for them to go vegan (again this is all rather silly and not relevant). It’s impossible to have a conversation around hypothetical people and what their diet should be without having access to their current budget, what options are available to them, what their current diet is, etc. Like what is your point!? What discussion do you want to have?

I know you would like to centre the conversation around a hypothetical person - but this is not only impossible to do but it doesn’t justify your diet or the diet of the majority of those in food secure countries. 

 

 

Edited May 8 by Bebe

[Bronco 21,492]

We're doing a sequel....We're back by popular demand

[Bebe 17,282]

29 minutes ago, PartySick said:

Something I don't see the "meat is evil" crowd talk about a lot is what the hell am I supposed to feed my dog?  

Even kibble is made with meat products.

Are we meant to surrender all non-herbivore pets? Or is having an animal companion also considered unethical?  

Leading veterinary bodies now say a properly formulated vegan diet can be fed to dogs, but owners must use AAFCO/FEDIAF complete commercial foods or nutritionist designed recipes and monitor health.
 

I think there is some good nuanced conversation to be had around animal companions, however if we have reached this stage of the conversation then we really are getting into the nitty gritty and I’m assuming you are a vegan who has accepted that consuming meat and dairy is not justified.
 

If you are a non-vegan who thinks eating meat and dairy is justifiable it doesn’t really seem worth having a discussion around these more specific and nuanced topics. 

Edited May 8 by Bebe

[Bebe 17,282]

18 minutes ago, gagzus said:

I’m not struggling now I’m lucky enough to have disposable income but I can tell you back in the 90s/early 2000s when you were a breadline family it was easier to get a burger and chips or sausages to satisfy your children when you’re in a family than spend a load of money on vegetables and avoid certain things and ingredients. I can tell you that veganism while not-not a thing when I grew up, it was definitely a non issue that was reserved for rich white celebs and anti-fur activists. 
 

I think if modern day vegans weren’t so up their own arses we’d be more inclined to listen to them, instead of it being boiled down to “you dont love animals if you eat meat” the average person who loves their pets but still eats meat isn’t gonna care about you or hear you out tbh.
 

But as I said it’s also a cultural thing because we have Halal and Kosher meat. But she would never come out and speak badly of that specifically because it would be too “ not woke “ of her to do. Having no grey area in an argument literally is a guaranteed way to lose an argument tbh. I can understand for example where vegans come from because they want the best for animal welfare and as do I but it’s not going to change the fact I eat meat l but want them to be ethically looked after and slaughtered ethically, plus cattle for example can be bred and culled where as the planet only has so much natural resources and they take too long for a planet of 7 billion people to regenerate. We also would still be using up resources that animals need but vegans NEVER see the grey area it seems instead we just get likening using cows milk and eggs to r*pe and murder for example (at least the ones I know) vegetarians however are much more inclined to see the grey area.

so yeah my stance is firm I’m afraid, I’ll happily try the food you’ve recommended but I’ll probably add some chicken or beef in there to make it flavourful.

 

 

It’s 2026 now and I actually don’t think Billie would have an issue calling out Halal and Kosher meat.

Can you describe what ethical slaughter is? It’s not ethical to slaughter a sentient being when you have another option for your protein.

“plus cattle for example can be bred and culled where as the planet only has so much natural resources and they take too long for a planet of 7 billion people to regenerate. We also would still be using up resources that animals need”

I’m sorry but I actually have no idea what you mean by this? Are you saying we can’t go for plant based agriculture because it’s not sustainable? We use plants to feed cows, they eat a lot more than us and plants grow back! We could reduce our agriculture by over 75-76% by ending animal agriculture!

We’d go from from roughly 4 billion hectares of farmland down to about 1 billion hectares which would free around 3 billion hectares for rewilding, forests, ecosystem restoration, or other uses.

Food-related greenhouse gas emissions could drop by around 49%. Since food is about 26% of global emissions, that’s around a 12–13% cut in total human emissions before even counting the extra carbon that could be absorbed if freed land regrew forests/grasslands.

In terms of water use one major estimate puts the reduction in freshwater withdrawals at about 19% under a global plant-based diet scenario. Agriculture currently accounts for around 70% of global freshwater withdrawals, so this is a big deal. Agriculture also causes about 78% of global freshwater and ocean eutrophication, moving away from animal farming would reduce manure, fertiliser runoff for feed crops, and waste pollution.

[elegidadedios 4,522]

Does Spotify still allow to ban an artist on your account?

[River 125,043]

15 minutes ago, Bebe said:

The cows name is Rosie and she has four spots. Don’t see how that’s relevant to whether you should go vegan.

A person’s location, socioeconomic status etc is needed before we can have a discussion on whether it is feasible for them to go vegan (again this is all rather silly and not relevant). It’s impossible to have a conversation around hypothetical people and what their diet should be without having access to their current budget, what options are available to them, what their current diet is etc. Like what is your point!?

I know you would like to centre the conversation around a hypothetical person - but this is not only impossible to do but it doesn’t justify your diet or the diet of the majority of those in food secure countries 

 

 

If it's impossible to you to make a discussion about REAL people, then well.. 

But let's go on with your game.

My neighbors are refugees from Syria, they have 3 kids and 1 is on their way, only the father is working, now it's Switzerland so everything is expensive but yet salaries are high, but he works at nights and his salary is 90k CHF / year, so the price of meat is in average 50 CHF / kilo, price of chicken breast is in average 5.50 CHF / 500g, so they eat chicken and not meat, because it's more affordable to them.

Pasta + lentils + canned tomato meal for 5 people would cost them 11 CHF for the total ingredients.

So Chicken breast for lunch is cheaper.

Also, add to that around 1900 CHF rent + almost 2000 for monthly health insurance and we don't consider the deductible for each family member.

then add to that education payments.

clothes.

electricity.

phones + internet + tv subscriptions.

and of course some nice things for the kids here and there.

So.. how can this family, real family, not making them up, eat vegan meals for breakfast, lunch and dinner, when it's more expensive than a simple chicken breast?