Billie Eilish Responded To Criticism For Recent Vegan Statement: I Don't Give A Fxck!

[Bebe 17,282]

53 minutes ago, MadArchitect said:

she never refered specifically to meat coming from the conglomerates of the meat industry, she never made a distinction, she never alluded exceptions, or anything of the sort, she made a rigid statement and she rightfully got criticized for it.  Now she's on her socials backpedaling, mad at a strawman, mad because ppl criticized her and not engaging in the slightest in what the discourse actually is and what she's even getting criticized by. Also, even if she meant to say exclusively meat from the meat industry, that statement deserves criticism too, because for lower class people meat is what's the most readily available and the cheaper option to get a balanced diet, that it's not their fault, a fully nutritious vegan diet is not affordable or reachable for everyone, If the statement was directed at people who have the resources available to change their diet and have the power to try to dismantle these industries, then yes, but by what she said the title of animal lover is class reserved and only worthy for the wealthy people that can op out of meat with ease...

You're talking about straw-man arguments but at the same time pretending she was speaking at the UN. She was not. She was speaking to Elle Magazine. According to Google Elle’s target audience is:

Age Range: Primarily 25–45 years old, covering young professional women and Millennials/Gen Z.

Gender: Over 80% female, though the digital audience has a significant male percentage (roughly 38% on elle.com).

Interests: High-end and high-street fashion, beauty, social media, sustainable living, personal finance, and celebrity culture.

Lifestyle: Cosmopolitan, trend-focused, and tech-savvy (active on platforms like Instagram and TikTok).

Income Level: Higher-than-average, with readers having high disposable income for fashion and brand purchases.

Certainly an audience that is more than capable of converting to a vegan diet.

Part of engaging in good faith is taking the strongest argument of your opponent and not building the weakest straw man version. You cannot expect people to qualify and quantify every statement they make. 
 

If I say “Canibalism is wrong!” I wouldn’t expect people to jump to the defence of the 16 survivors of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571  who were forced into cannibalism after 72 days stranded. 
 

Who are these “lower class people” you speak of? Where do they live? What are their local options? Are they currently meeting their nutritional needs? Is that a concern right now or is the immediate need simply food so they don’t die of hunger? 

It is impossible to have a discussion of value around these hypothetical people. There are too many variables to make up.

Instead of advocating for, and hiding behind, these imaginary people I would encourage you to be a little bit more critical of your own diet and that of the vast majority of people in wealthy countries. 

Edited May 8 by Bebe

[RaveMonster 540]

15 minutes ago, Bebe said:

You're talking about straw-man arguments but at the same time pretending she was speaking at the UN. She was not. She was speaking to Elle Magazine. According to Google Elle’s target audience is:

Age Range: Primarily 25–45 years old, covering young professional women and Millennials/Gen Z.

Gender: Over 80% female, though the digital audience has a significant male percentage (roughly 38% on elle.com).

Interests: High-end and high-street fashion, beauty, social media, sustainable living, personal finance, and celebrity culture.

Lifestyle: Cosmopolitan, trend-focused, and tech-savvy (active on platforms like Instagram and TikTok).

Income Level: Higher-than-average, with readers having high disposable income for fashion and brand purchases.

Certainly an audience that is more than capable of converting to a vegan diet.

Part of engaging in good faith is taking the strongest argument of your opponent and not building the weakest straw man version. You cannot expect people to qualify and quantify every statement they make. 
 

If I say “Canibalism is wrong!” I wouldn’t expect people to jump to the defence of the 16 survivors of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571  who were forced into cannibalism after 72 days stranded. 
 

Who are these “lower class people” you speak of? Where do they live? What are their local options? Are they currently meeting their nutritional needs? Is that a concern of there's right now or is the immediate need simply food so they don’t die of hunger? 

It is impossible to have a discussion of value around these hypothetical people. There are too many variables to make up.

Instead of advocating for, and hiding behind, these imaginary people I would encourage you to be a little bit more critical of your own diet and that of the vast majority of people in wealthy countries. 

Anyone with access to the internet can see her comments and many people in lower socioeconomic groups have access to the internet.

Assuming everyone can just convert to veganism is a very privileged position and that’s just a fact. Many people literally depend on making food from animal products and some dumb rich white girl that never struggled a day in her life thinks she can tell them they don’t care about animals.
 

It’s not made up variables, it’s being aware of other people’s situations other than the people you see everyday. It’s being aware of your surroundings instead of being a dumbass who has no idea how the world works besides what their algorithm shows them everyday.

[Laxy 338]

She also signed her name to some tacky **** on Survivor and then had no idea wtf she was talking about in an interview. Bad week for Billard.

[River 124,999]

3 hours ago, Bebe said:

A lot of commentary around her tone which I disagree with tbh. 

 

It is the sentiment - can quote multiple users in this thread already that have an issue with her tone.

It isn’t about you. As mentioned it’s actually about creating a wider discussion that can reach people who are compassionate, actually hold strong moral convictions and are not going to support cruelty because it’s widely socially accepted or due to a minor inconvenience if they were to stop.

You're talking about "good faith arguments" but have not once tried to reasonably engage with the argument for or against veganism and instead want to write snarky replies and post off topic gifs giggling about turning this thread into 20+ pages of your own bloat.

The problem with her message is that instead of bringing in meat eaters supporters to fight animals cruelty, she's pushing them away and she's creating a very strong antagonism.

Shaming was never the best way to make meat eaters understand the horrors that animals are living until they reach their plates but you don't do it by shaming them or by posting videos and pics about it online, when they have the easy tools to swipe it away, hide it or report it. 

There is animal cruelty in the meat industry, it's a fact, but at the same time, the majority of the people on earth will continue to eat meat, one is a problem, the other is not. Billie, PETA, or any vegan/vegetarian, should ally with meat eaters to fight this cruelty and to make change the way the animals are raised and been killed.

For example, no more killing male chicks, no more killing calves, raising the animals in free habitats with healthy nutritions, stop overfeeding ducks and exploding their livers and so on and so on.

But to tell a meat eater that they can't eat meat and love their pet at the same time and feel so entitled about the statement, is not the way..

[River 124,999]

33 minutes ago, Bebe said:

Who are these “lower class people” you speak of? Where do they live? What are their local options? Are they currently meeting their nutritional needs? Is that a concern right now or is the immediate need simply food so they don’t die of hunger? 

I understand that you're passionate about the subject, but this comes of as very out of touch and closed minded.

lower class people are everywhere. it can be your neighbor, your friend, a family member and even you one day. 

it's sufficient to have your rent raised suddenly to have less money and not to be able to buy vegan exclusive meals.

[PartySick 171,257]

6 hours ago, REALITY said:

I think you must have some real thin skin if you don't get her point, and I say this as a fat f*ck who eats a ton of meat. It's no secret that animals are horribly mistreated in all different types of industries. And it IS hypocritical to say you're an animal lover while still supporting those industries. So yeah, I am hypocritical for that. And so is everyone else who does the same. It's not rocket science, and people are just offended that she's calling them out because they can't bear to think they are partly responsible for it. 

I don't have a problem with her calling out the meat industry, I have a problem with her telling me how I think and feel  

I love Billie but that just takes an activist's viewpoint and wraps it in a level of arrogance and ego that I'm not comfortable tolerating  

She's not gonna tell me how I feel 'cause I make the same dietary decisions humans have made since the dawn of man lmao.

[Bebe 17,282]

23 minutes ago, RaveMonster said:

Anyone with access to the internet can see her comments and many people in lower socioeconomic groups have access to the internet.

Assuming everyone can just convert to veganism is a very privileged position and that’s just a fact. Many people literally depend on making food from animal products and some dumb rich white girl that never struggled a day in her life thinks she can tell them they don’t care about animals.
 

It’s not made up variables, it’s being aware of other people’s situations other than the people you see everyday. It’s being aware of your surroundings instead of being a dumbass who has no idea how the world works besides what their algorithm shows them everyday.

Who cares who can see it? Again we don't need to quantify every statement we make.

Seems more productive to care more about the actual 200 million plus sentient beings slaughtered every day then then these hypotheticals you are describing.  

8 minutes ago, River said:

I understand that you're passionate about the subject, but this comes of as very out of touch and closed minded.

lower class people are everywhere. it can be your neighbor, your friend, a family member and even you one day. 

it's sufficient to have your rent raised suddenly to have less money and not to be able to buy vegan exclusive meals.

 

I'm hardly Jeff Bezos over here and I'm not ashamed to say there been times in my life where I have lived on a government pension and eaten vegan! 

Not claiming that lower class done exist - just that it's impossible to discuss options, meal plans and vegan options when discussing a nameless person from an unknown region with an unknown income that you've made up in your head.

We cannot have a serious conversation about animal agriculture and factory farming while discussing made up people. It's not productive and it's just being used by people to justify their own diets 

[PartySick 171,257]

4 hours ago, Ladle Ghoulash said:

Can’t wait for this to devolve into another entirely circular, non-persuasive thread dominated largely by one person that goes on for upwards of 20 pages 

It's only not persuasive 'cause Billie started it by shaming people and that's no way to convince a person of your perspective  

She's still young and immature. Maybe one day she'll learn how to be an activist without being annoying and counterproductive but until then I do appreciate that she at least has stances

[Bebe 17,282]

17 minutes ago, River said:

The problem with her message is that instead of bringing in meat eaters supporters to fight animals cruelty, she's pushing them away and she's creating a very strong antagonism.

Shaming was never the best way to make meat eaters understand the horrors that animals are living until they reach their plates but you don't do it by shaming them or by posting videos and pics about it online, when they have the easy tools to swipe it away, hide it or report it. 

There is animal cruelty in the meat industry, it's a fact, but at the same time, the majority of the people on earth will continue to eat meat, one is a problem, the other is not. Billie, PETA, or any vegan/vegetarian, should ally with meat eaters to fight this cruelty and to make change the way the animals are raised and been killed.

For example, no more killing male chicks, no more killing calves, raising the animals in free habitats with healthy nutritions, stop overfeeding ducks and exploding their livers and so on and so on.

But to tell a meat eater that they can't eat meat and love their pet at the same time and feel so entitled about the statement, is not the way..

I’m personally glad she is using the tone she is using, if you’re not then make your own argument for veganism.

This tone policing is simply a way to deflect from the practices of animal farming and  people’s own eating habits. 

One side is being offensive by participating in an industry that confines, deprives, tortures and slaughters innocent animals and one side isn’t using enough qualifiers and being polite in conversation. It’s a joke.

[Bebe 17,282]

Every non-vegan who is against the tone of Billie’s argument for veganism:

Try constructing an argument for veganism that you are happy with! Not a straw man weakest version of her argument, but the strongest argument you can from her assertions!

I’ll go first:

“Animals are sentient beings capable of suffering. We do not need to eat them to live healthy lives in food secure societies.

Animal agriculture causes immense suffering and death to tens of billions of land animals every year, plus vast numbers of aquatic animals.

It is also one of the most environmentally damaging and resource inefficient parts of the food system, driving greenhouse gas emissions, land use, biodiversity loss, water pollution, and feed-crop demand.

Well-planned vegan diets are nutritionally adequate for most people, with known and manageable requirements such as B12.

Therefore, when someone has access to plant-based foods, continuing to consume animal products is not a necessity. It is a preference. Someone’s preference is not a strong enough justification for systematic exploitation, suffering, ecological damage, and premature death.”

^Are we happy with the above and are we going vegan? Or are do we still have issues despite all the quantification and lack of personal statements?

If you still have an issue then can you please stop pretending that you care so much about how effective her messaging is? Because you don’t care about how effective her messaging is, you just think it is easier to argue about her tone than defend your practices 

Edited May 8 by Bebe

[gagzus 20,267]

 

And I want to double down on the fact that she has a classism and racism issue with this because financially it’s expensive to be vegan and processed meat is sometimes the only thing a family on the breadline can afford, like when I was a kid before some of you in this site were even alive it was cheaper to buy a cheap burger than buy even healthy alternatives and veggie/vegan options are a more 21st century thing that’s been popularised by famous people. 
 

Meat also has cultural significance in other races traditions and has done for thousands of years whether it be for food or sacrifice more than she and all the weirdo vegans have been alive. Even today Halal and Kosher exist because of religious practice does she condemn that publicly? Or is it too not woke to double down on it properly? 

Edited May 8 by gagzus

[PartySick 171,257]

27 minutes ago, Bebe said:

Animals are sentient beings capable of suffering. We do not need to eat them to live healthy lives in food secure societies.

Animal agriculture causes immense suffering and death to tens of billions of land animals every year, plus vast numbers of aquatic animals.

It is also one of the most environmentally damaging and resource inefficient parts of the food system, driving greenhouse gas emissions, land use, biodiversity loss, water pollution, and feed-crop demand.

Well-planned vegan diets are nutritionally adequate for most people, with known and manageable requirements such as B12.

Therefore, when someone has access to plant-based foods, continuing to consume animal products is not a necessity. It is a preference.

This is great. Objective, fact based, no notes.

27 minutes ago, Bebe said:

Someone’s preference is not a strong enough justification for systematic exploitation, suffering, ecological damage, and premature death.

This? No so much 'cause justification is subjective.

Personally, the fact that I like meat and it's an easy source of certain nutrients is justification enough for me to continue eating it  

Doesn't mean the industry doesn't need to change but you're talking about people's personal choices, not the industry that none of us really have control over outside of voting for certain politicians.

And just like the last thread, I could throw how bad farming is for the environment right back into your face as "justification" against eating plants. It's subjective and we're gonna have an impact on the planet regardless, it's about minimizing the impact in a realistic way.

Getting everyone on a rabbit food diet isn't realistic  

People are gonna eat meat, that's just a fact that'll probably never change. The sooner you accept that and move the goalposts to a reasonable distance, the sooner it'll stop feeling like you're bashing your head against a brick wall.

[River 124,999]

34 minutes ago, Bebe said:

I’m personally glad she is using the tone she is using, if you’re not then make your own argument for veganism.

This tone policing is simply a way to deflect from the practices of animal farming and  people’s own eating habits. 

One side is being offensive by participating in an industry that confines, deprives, tortures and slaughters innocent animals and one side isn’t using enough qualifiers and being polite in conversation. It’s a joke.

It’s not policing her tone, it’s rolling the eyes at her wrong opinion and pointing out how harming it is to her cause.

It’s pretty simple.

She’s an incredible artist but she needs to grow up and learn that her voice matters for the best or for the worst, and at this particular matter it’s for the worst.

No one will go vegan for what she said, the contrary, they will stay away from it and grow to hate it..

 

[River 124,999]

57 minutes ago, Bebe said:

Who cares who can see it? Again we don't need to quantify every statement we make.

Seems more productive to care more about the actual 200 million plus sentient beings slaughtered every day then then these hypotheticals you are describing.  

 

I'm hardly Jeff Bezos over here and I'm not ashamed to say there been times in my life where I have lived on a government pension and eaten vegan! 

Not claiming that lower class done exist - just that it's impossible to discuss options, meal plans and vegan options when discussing a nameless person from an unknown region with an unknown income that you've made up in your head.

We cannot have a serious conversation about animal agriculture and factory farming while discussing made up people. It's not productive and it's just being used by people to justify their own diets 

I mean, we can say the same about a nameless cow from an unknown farm with an unknown liters of milk that you bring in every conversation 🤷‍♂️

[Bebe 17,282]

28 minutes ago, gagzus said:

 

And I want to double down on the fact that she has a classism and racism issue with this because financially it’s expensive to be vegan and processed meat is sometimes the only thing a family on the breadline can afford, like when I was a kid before some of you in this site were even alive it was cheaper to buy a cheap burger than buy even healthy alternatives and veggie/vegan options are a more 21st century thing that’s been popularised by famous people. 
 

Meat also has cultural significance in other races traditions and has done for thousands of years whether it be for food or sacrifice more than she and all the weirdo vegans have been alive. Even today Halal and Kosher exist because of religious practice does she condemn that publicly? Or is it too not woke to double down on it properly? 

I would once again remind people that Billie made these comments to Elle, whose target audience is millennial/gen z women with a higher-than-average disposable income.

Curious to know where you live though? A vegan diet is one of the cheapest diets in most places around the world. Many people in poverty are vegan out of necessity.

If you want to go ultra cheap the best diet you can choose is carb + legume + frozen veg + sauce/spice

Examples:

Rice + lentils + frozen veg + curry powder

Pasta + lentils + canned tomato + garlic

Potatoes + beans + cabbage + stock

Noodles + peanut butter + soy sauce + frozen veg

Bread/wrap + chickpeas + carrot + spinach + sauce

Not necessarily something I’d recommend for all but these are meals that are filling, nutritious and a lot cheaper than meat if you’re struggling to put food on the table. 

Edited May 8 by Bebe