Billie: “You can eat meat. You can love animals. But you can’t do boooooooooth.”

[Bebe 17,289]

19 minutes ago, Bronco said:

Not true. 

Non-heme iron sources are harder for the human digestive system to reliably absorb

D2, the primary plant based source of vitamin D, again is harder for the digestive system to reliably absorb.

Omega 3 acids are also on the list of essentially vitamins & minerals where plant based sources are less reliable in the human digestive system. 

And I'm not criticising you for discussing B-12, although I will point out you should provide the logic of singling it out at the start not the end of a discussion.

What I criticised you for was the fact you went on the offensive, accusing me of getting hung up on something that I didn't bring up or discuss, and suggested I wasn't acting honestly because I was debating made up hypotheticals. Again - the only hypothetical ever brought into the debate was by yourself. And you proceeded to get mad at me for even briefly responding to it. 

Let’s engage in a debate that is honest and not rooted in hypotheticals. 

Yes true - you’ve provided examples of different vitamins that are harder to digest not vitamins that are absent. Still possible to get enough iron, D2 and Omega-3 from a relatively cheap vegan diet.

You acted very confident in your assertions that there are barriers for people living in poverty to access vegan food, so I assumed a level of understanding on the topic of nutrition in vegan diets. I didn’t feel the need to explain the point of singling out B-12.

Would you like to explain your point then? You mentioned accessibility issues for people living in poverty. I’ve personally been in times when I’ve had to survive on a diet of legumes, frozen vegetables, canned tomatoes, coconut milk, tofu, pasta, rice, bread, peanut butter and trusty herbs and spices. Not only was this an extremely cheap diet but it was healthier than the VAST majority of people in the US. It was also surprisingly varied.

I was in a fortunate enough situation to be able to afford my B-12 supplement, as a luxury of course, however even if I wasn’t able the above would still be true. 

You can be living under the poverty line and be vegan. If you cannot meet all your nutritional needs as a vegan due to your financial situation then you cannot meet all your nutritional requirements as a non-vegan. 
 

if you cannot concede this point then there is no point to me continuing to sit here and see you continue to mention people on SNAP as if veganism can’t be one of the cheapest diets available for people.

Edited April 29 by Bebe

[elegidadedios 4,902]

2 hours ago, Bebe said:

Yes we are born omnivores, we don't need to eat meat we can also eat vegetables and legumes. 

I promise you that you can have a very cheap vegan lifestyle while maintaining your essential vitamins. Especially if you take vitamin tablets.

It's really it a massive inconvenience to eat plant based and take supplements where necessary that it could justify the attrcoties of factory farming

What if I said I purposely want to eat meat? 

Leave 2015 behind your back

[Bebe 17,289]

Just now, elegidadedios said:

What if I said I purposely want to eat meat? 

Leave 2015 behind your back

I’d let you know I’m not interested in trying to convince someone that is clearly either incapable or unwilling to engage with the topic of animal welfare in any sort of critical or intelligent way and then stop responding to you 🤷🏻

[elegidadedios 4,902]

1 minute ago, Bebe said:

I’d let you know I’m not interested in trying to convince someone that is clearly either incapable or unwilling to engage with the topic of animal welfare in any sort of critical or intelligent way and then stop responding to you 🤷🏻

Your whole narrative through your posts is actually trying to convince everyone how being vegan is the only way to approach the topic, so... Something's not deliberately clicking up in your mind

[Bebe 17,289]

11 minutes ago, elegidadedios said:

Your whole narrative through your posts is actually trying to convince everyone how being vegan is the only way to approach the topic, so... Something's not deliberately clicking up in your mind

Sorry I said I wouldn’t respond, but you did make me laugh because this post makes it sound as if everyone I’ve responded to has been unable to discuss the topic with me in an intelligent or critical way.

The implication in my original reply was that your comment of “What if I said I purposely want to eat meat?” was so painstakingly stupid and uncritical that it’s not worth trying to have the conversation with you. It’s clear that you don’t want a good faith conversation.

If you can’t being anything of value to the conversation, there is no point in posting. 
 

Have a good one ✌️

Edited April 29 by Bebe

[Sepsami 20,976]

Sometimes I start thinking oh wow Billie has really grown up and become a mature artist and then she says stuff like this

[Linus Gaga 8,499]

I always wonder if these people avoid stepping on ants when they're out, do they feel bad for it if they did step on some? 

[Ultimecia 6,882]

4 hours ago, Bebe said:

There is no such thing as ethical or sustainable meat. I would like for you to try and explain what that looks like and how it works.

There absolutely is. Ethical as in the animal grows up in good conditions, and sustainable as in the amount of water used and carbon released isn't aggressively endangering the planet.

4 hours ago, Bebe said:

If you want people to reduce their meat consumption to improve animal welfare and for the environment why not go the whole way and endorse the diet that is best for the environment and for animal welfare?

I do support and endorse vegetarians and vegans, but it's simply unrealistic to expect the entire world to stop eating meat altogether.

I think the energy one spends trying to convince someone to stop eating meat on the basis of a "moral high ground" is simply wasted.

There are real, attainable solutions that would accommodate every eating habit without requiring overproduction. Discussing these surely would be more impactful.

Edited April 29 by Ultimecia

[Bebe 17,289]

13 minutes ago, Ultimecia said:

There absolutely is. Ethical as in the animal grows up in good conditions, and sustainable as in the amount of water used and carbon released isn't aggressively endangering the planet.

I do support and endorse vegetarians and vegans, but it's simply unrealistic to expect the entire world to stop eating meat altogether.

I think the energy one spends trying to convince someone to stop eating meat on the basis of a "moral high ground" is simply wasted.

There are real, attainable solutions that would accommodate every eating habit without requiring overproduction. Discussing these surely would be more impactful.

There is nothing ethical about an industry that is inherently built on the exploitation of animals. There is just no way to forcibly rape/inseminate animals and slaughter them that would meet any serious ethical standard. The suffering is completely unnecessary when there are plant based alternatives. 
 

There is nothing sustainable about animal agriculture. It is land-hungry, methane-heavy, and often dependent on huge volumes of feed crops that would be more efficiently used to feed humans. You can’t stop animals from needing space, eating and farting? 

You can’t name one “real, attainable solutions that would accommodate every eating habit”.  Discuss them, please explain.

The most environmentally friendly and ethical diet is the vegan diet. Full stop. There are no other systems of food production that is as ethical or environmentally responsible. 

Edited April 29 by Bebe

[Ultimecia 6,882]

16 minutes ago, Bebe said:

You can’t name one “real, attainable solutions that would accommodate every eating habit”.  Discuss them, please explain.

I already did.

But given your full response, I think this is where the discussion ends.

[imogen2133 566]

yes you can, I love my 2 cats very much but I eat chicken and beef frequently. I also need to eat iron rich meats because I have anemia and need to keep my iron levels stable. 

[elegidadedios 4,902]

Man I don't know people have bigger and real problems such as trying to afford a house

[Morphine Prince 109,683]

Not sure if this has been discussed but with the price of meat these days it can actually be cheaper to not eat it lol. 

Just eating rice, vegetables, fruits, legumes, nuts, grains etc 

[Bronco 25,131]

44 minutes ago, Morphine Prince said:

Not sure if this has been discussed but with the price of meat these days it can actually be cheaper to not eat it lol. 

Just eating rice, vegetables, fruits, legumes, nuts, grains etc 

Its definitely cheaper if you are focusing purely on whole foods and home cooking. 

The problem is, the people who would benefit the most from this route are the people stuck in negative cycle caused by capitalism where they're often forced to rely on convenience meals/ready meals/take out meals due to the labour demands placed on them. 

And that's where veggie/vegan options become more expensive - the so called "vegan" tax on branded products. There's not been enough of a market shift yet so that there are an abundance of cheap value brand convenience meal options for vegans yet. 

[Bebe 17,289]

1 hour ago, Ultimecia said:

I already did.

But given your full response, I think this is where the discussion ends.

You haven’t laid one any alternative that is more ethical or environmentally sustainable.

Have a good one