Billie: “You can eat meat. You can love animals. But you can’t do boooooooooth.”

[Bebe 17,289]

Just now, Ladle Ghoulash said:

This post only proves a lot of my original point, btw. 

I know you think it does 🙂 Have a great day!

[Bebe 17,289]

9 minutes ago, Ladle Ghoulash said:

This post only proves a lot of my original point, btw. You’re basically doing exactly what I was describing but putting smiley emojis after every attempt to force an absolute binary.

Only responding again because you’ve edited your message.

Are you able to explain how you can claim to love animals while advocating for, and participating in, inhumane animal suffering at such a large scale? These ideas are completely contradictory. 

We roll our eyes at the Israeli settler who claim that the Palestinian people are their brothers and sisters while they use violence to remove Palestinians from their land.

We roll our eyes at the historical American founders who claimed freedom for all men while keeping people as slaves.

We roll our eyes when we hear someone say they love animals as they support an industry that commits attrcoties against them on a scale of cruelty that is almost unfathomable.

As one example, I like to use dairy as it's specifically Vegan not just vegetarian: 

Dairy cows are kept in a cycle of forced impregnation, birth and milk production. Calves are taken from their mothers within hours or days of birth. Cows often bellow and search for their calves for days and participate in pacing and searching behaviours. Calves are simply slaughtered or become veal if male or are forced into the same dairy industry if female.

Knowing this and choosing to continue drinking milk and claiming you love animals is simply cognitive dissonance. It is contradictory to say you love animals but behave in a way that shows you simply don't care about their suffering.

You keep talking about this "forced binary" as if this disproves the argument of veganism, but it doesn’t do anything but communicate that you are uncomfortable. That's fine, it's an uncomfortable topic. However, if you cannot explain how it's a false binary then it doesn't mean anything substantial.

[StrawberryBlond 15,568]

She's far too old to be coming to such juvenile conclusions. Humans are meant to be omnivores. It's how we evolved and survived for eons. If we weren't meant to eat meat, eating it would make us very ill, maybe kill us. There are many nutrients in meat, some of which aren't present in any other food source, which is why vegans take certain supplements. We also treat our pets differently from animals we don't have connections to, just like how lions love and protect their cubs but will kill an antelope to feed them. Animals can love other animals but then kill them too. Does she also agree with "you can love humans and you can love animals, but you can't do both"? Clearly, she didn't think this one through.

9 hours ago, littlepotter said:

All the people triggered already

I eat meat, but I think she's right. How can I say I love animals and then pay for their flesh? I can't give up meat yet but I can admit to myself that the way meat is sourced is ****ing disgusting and horrendous and diabolical and I'm not proud of financing that industry.

Anyone who can convince me otherwise, go ahead. 

How about this - animals don't care about our welfare, they look out for their own species and don't think twice about killing us for food. So, why should we be any different? It's indeed a very human thing to care about other species but it's hardly mandatory. Just because we can expand our humanity to care for every living thing doesn't mean we should. Animals would never. Don't even get me started on the uber sensitive vegans who feel guilty when they rip a plant out the ground. I once even heard about feeling guilty for getting rid of mould! Toxic mould! That stuff is a much lower grade of sentiency to us, I have no time for that nonsense. They may technically be living things but they don't have a heart, lungs and nervous system, so not living in any way that any rational person would define it.

Don't get me wrong, far too much meat is created, animals are losing their lives over nothing when nobody eats it, the way some of these animals are killed is horrific. But that doesn't mean we still shouldn't eat them. God knows they suffer much more when they're hunted in the wild. As long as we're only killing animals for food, I have no issue with it. I have a moral opposition to the killing of infant animals, personally, but that's about it. No bullfighting, dog/c**k fighting, killing healthy greyhounds after retirement, eating of live animals. As long as they're killed for the most noble purpose (food), there's nothing to be ashamed of.

[Ultimecia 6,881]

Eating animals isn't a problem, it is natural. We as individuals cannot be blamed for having no choice but to partake in this problematic industry in order to fulfill this primary, instinctual need.

The frequency and quantity in which we eat meat is a problem however, and is the cause of the deteriorating conditions in which animals are raised.

I've worked in a chicken slaughterhouse for a couple years. The number of chickens I would see each day is absolutely mind-boggling, but is ultimately the mere reflection of the ever-growing, and unsustainable demand for meat there is.

Yes, you can eat meat and love animals. Yes, you can eat meat and be critical of the system that provides that meat to you.

If that's the case, being mindful of how much meat you buy and eat goes a long way, and isn't hypocritical in the slightest.

[FurankiGaga 75]

She sounds like an ad (which is not wrong):

'If you love your body/yourself you should take this product '

I can't be bothered with her take 

[Lord Mayhem 3,430]

[Bebe 17,289]

1 hour ago, Ultimecia said:

Eating animals isn't a problem, it is natural. We as individuals cannot be blamed for having no choice but to partake in this problematic industry in order to fulfill this primary, instinctual need.

The frequency and quantity in which we eat meat is a problem however, and is the cause of the deteriorating conditions in which animals are raised.

I've worked in a chicken slaughterhouse for a couple years. The number of chickens I would see each day is absolutely mind-boggling, but is ultimately the mere reflection of the ever-growing, and unsustainable demand for meat there is.

Yes, you can eat meat and love animals. Yes, you can eat meat and be critical of the system that provides that meat to you.

If that's the case, being mindful of how much meat you buy and eat goes a long way, and isn't hypocritical in the slightest.

Natural =\= moral. I also take issue with your premise that eating meat "fulfill's a primary, instinctual need" or that you have no choice. Plenty of people live on plant based diets either due to culture formed from a scarcity of meat options and/or abundance of plants or because of moral objections or environmental reasons.

We know a vegan diet comes with reduced risk of chronic illnesses such as obesity, cancer, type 2 diabetes, and heart disease. So eating meat isn't a "need".  

It sounds like what you witnessed at the slaughterhouse wasn't positive it it came away with you describing "deteriorating conditions in which animals are raised".

I agree that the meat industry is unsustainable, and I'm glad to hear you are "critical of the system". Why not encourage to move to a method of food production that is plant based?

We know it has better outcomes for the environment, we know it's more efficient (70–80% of soy goes to animal feed in the US, 1/3 of all crops grown globally are used as animal feed) and we also know it's more ethical by eliminating unnecessary animal suffering.

[Ultimecia 6,881]

I think you've misinterpreted some of the points I made.

50 minutes ago, Bebe said:

Natural =\= moral. I also take issue with your premise that eating meat "fulfill's a primary, instinctual need" or that you have no choice. Plenty of people live on plant based diets either due to culture formed from a scarcity of meat options and/or abundance of plants or because of moral objections or environmental reasons.

The "no choice" I brought up was in relation to having no source of ethical or sustainable meat at our disposition, I'm not arguing anyone has no choice of eating meat.

52 minutes ago, Bebe said:

It sounds like what you witnessed at the slaughterhouse wasn't positive it it came away with you describing "deteriorating conditions in which animals are raised".

I didn't experience any poor treatment of animals first hand, and my overall experience working there was positive. My takeaway was that the industry is simply fulfilling a demand for meat that is way too high, and that this demand is what leads to more animals being raised, which in turn leads to worse conditions for them.

1 hour ago, Bebe said:

I agree that the meat industry is unsustainable, and I'm glad to hear you are "critical of the system". Why not encourage to move to a method of food production that is plant based?

The industry is unsustainable because the current demand for meat is unsustainable, but eating meat isn't inherently immoral. Shifting to a more plant based diet and production is part of the solution, I don't disagree, but cutting off all meat consumption isn't.

[southpaw773 4,366]

Ok PETA. BRB going to KFC. 

[Stylor 204]

She’s the definition of performative activism.

[Joshie 790]

3 hours ago, Bebe said:

Only responding again because you’ve edited your message.

Are you able to explain how you can claim to love animals while advocating for, and participating in, inhumane animal suffering at such a large scale? These ideas are completely contradictory. 

We roll our eyes at the Israeli settler who claim that the Palestinian people are their brothers and sisters while they use violence to remove Palestinians from their land.

We roll our eyes at the historical American founders who claimed freedom for all men while keeping people as slaves.

We roll our eyes when we hear someone say they love animals as they support an industry that commits attrcoties against them on a scale of cruelty that is almost unfathomable.

As one example, I like to use dairy as it's specifically Vegan not just vegetarian: 

Dairy cows are kept in a cycle of forced impregnation, birth and milk production. Calves are taken from their mothers within hours or days of birth. Cows often bellow and search for their calves for days and participate in pacing and searching behaviours. Calves are simply slaughtered or become veal if male or are forced into the same dairy industry if female.

Knowing this and choosing to continue drinking milk and claiming you love animals is simply cognitive dissonance. It is contradictory to say you love animals but behave in a way that shows you simply don't care about their suffering.

You keep talking about this "forced binary" as if this disproves the argument of veganism, but it doesn’t do anything but communicate that you are uncomfortable. That's fine, it's an uncomfortable topic. However, if you cannot explain how it's a false binary then it doesn't mean anything substantial.

This is beautifully put. Well done you.

[ALGAYDO 35,134]

As a vegan, I agree. It’s okay to admit that you’re okay with animals being tortured for your food, but don’t lie and say you love them lol 

[Monstermilo 5,473]

and thats why she only has one number one on the hot 100

[PartySick 172,545]

Oop. My dear vegans in the chat tonight, please try not to break an arm jerking yourselves off.

You don't get to tell people who they are simply because they eat one thing or another. That's like me calling all vegans eco-terrorists because agriculture at it's core is bad for the environment (deforestation, cuts biodiversity, rampant pesticide use, aggressive water usage, destruction of top soil, etc).

"You can't say you love nature when acres and acres of forest are being chopped down to grow YOUR soy beans!!"

See how stupid that sounds?

"You can't say you care about animal welfare when you EAT HAMBURGERS"

See how stupid that makes you sound?

I eat meat and I love animals. I support regulations on the meat industry to curb both its impact on the environment and to curb the cruelty aspect.

To tell me "um actually, you think and feel this way because I said so ☝️🤓" is so egotistical and self-aggrandizing it's no wonder people hate vegans lmao.

We're all human, we're all hypocrites. And if you say "I'm not a hypocrite!" then you're both a hypocrite and a liar.

[TheSine 6,911]

4 hours ago, Bebe said:

Natural =\= moral. I also take issue with your premise that eating meat "fulfill's a primary, instinctual need" or that you have no choice. Plenty of people live on plant based diets either due to culture formed from a scarcity of meat options and/or abundance of plants or because of moral objections or environmental reasons.

We know a vegan diet comes with reduced risk of chronic illnesses such as obesity, cancer, type 2 diabetes, and heart disease. So eating meat isn't a "need".  

It sounds like what you witnessed at the slaughterhouse wasn't positive it it came away with you describing "deteriorating conditions in which animals are raised".

I agree that the meat industry is unsustainable, and I'm glad to hear you are "critical of the system". Why not encourage to move to a method of food production that is plant based?

We know it has better outcomes for the environment, we know it's more efficient (70–80% of soy goes to animal feed in the US, 1/3 of all crops grown globally are used as animal feed) and we also know it's more ethical by eliminating unnecessary animal suffering.

Ahhh, I'm not trying to deflect your point, because having higher plant consumption can help improve the environment, but...

As humans, we are born omnivores, which means we can thrive on a varied diet. While going vegan comes with its perks, it requires more planning to avoid lacking important nutrients such as Omega-3s, and B12. Much of the benefit comes from eating fewer processed foods, and increased fiber intake which is good for lowering LDL cholesterol and slows down sugar absorption. Those same benefits can be achieved through other balanced diets, like Mediterranean or pescatarian, without fully cutting out animal products.

Eating meat may not be a need, but it can make certain nutrients easier to obtain. For many people, especially in the US, High-quality food isn't easily obtainable due to cost and time constraints. Broader improvements in food systems and reductions in industrial meat production may have a larger impact than expecting everyone to adopt a single dietary pattern.

Edited April 29 by TheSine
I cut out too much of the quoted comment