Billie: “You can eat meat. You can love animals. But you can’t do boooooooooth.”

[robotvoiceinalice 2,119]

lmao

[Yakul 104]

dayummm miss eilish starts a long overdue conversation. this might be bad for billie's reputation but she seems very eager on that topic. I don't like her wording and yes, I do think she is privileged. I also think it's important to talk about our treatment of animals. 

I don't think eating meat is unethical. I think the amount of meat and the low prizes, the millions of animals slaughtered everyday, yes, that's very unethical. disrespectful to life even. when you want to look at it from the bigger picture, it's capitalism. the constant need for more and the way people have been raised in a capitalistic environment. also people's lack of money, sometimes also education. 

however, when people are labeled as evil because they are eating meat, it's doing nothing. people will become defensive and everyone will be upset. but I think the majority of people want animals to be treated well, and yes, you can agree on that and still eat meat. 

I guess what im trying to say is, that things can be equally true. 

Edited April 28 by Yakul

[Old Gregg 46]

if it wasn't impractical, i'd reply to nearly half the comments in this thread with this site, which addresses every point against veganism : https://www.godfist.com/vegansidekick/guide.php

[Xzxcuzme 177]

Every single time she opens that mouth it’s just to say some bullsh*t, seriously she is so out of touch 

[Decodekid 30,708]

Our relationship with meat is a cognitive dissonance, so both loving animals and sort of ignoring the problem can actually be true at once. I followed a (mostly) plant based diet for over 7 years and had to recently transition to a pescatarian diet because I was having a Vitamin D deficiency and didn't want to rely on medication to maintain a certain lifestyle. 

I still very much believe in veganism's core philosophy, but I don't agree with the all or nothing mentality because it contradicts its sole purpose which is reducing harm as far as possible. This approach excludes people from the conversation. 

 

[Hadrian 2,637]

That's fine sis but my hill to die on is covered in delicious bacon.

[Nine Inch Heels 853]

so when are we getting a dislike react button 

[PartySick 172,545]

6 hours ago, littlepotter said:

All the people triggered already

I eat meat, but I think she's right. How can I say I love animals and then pay for their flesh? I can't give up meat yet but I can admit to myself that the way meat is sourced is ****ing disgusting and horrendous and diabolical and I'm not proud of financing that industry.

Anyone who can convince me otherwise, go ahead. 

I think you're hitting on the nuance of the issue.

Billie's quote here is gonna be taken very literally. "Eating ANY meat means you don't love animals". Idk if that's actually what she means but either way, that's just ridiculous. You can care about the welfare of animals, even livestock raised specifically to become food, and still eat what humans have been eating since before we were even humans.***

It's the industry itself that's evil. A lot of us are pretty powerless to change it other than giving our votes to politicians who promise to push back against the barbaric way they're run.

In the meantime, some people still buy meat and that's ok. A dietary choice isn't a moral choice when moral options are stripped away from consumers by corporations that have significant power. 

 

***A lot of vegans are correct that even though eating meat is natural and meat has been part of humanity's diet for literally millions of years, our society is at a point where we can make other choices to fill nutritional needs. But you can't force people to make those choices and it doesn't make somebody a bad person just 'cause they have a steak every now and then.

[PartySick 172,545]

3 hours ago, Kayi said:

Not carnivores pets opinions... 

More seriously, she should do a message to slaughterhouses that provide deplorable living conditions for animals.

It's maybe more about decent living conditions for the animals.

Yeah, this would have more value.

So many people come for the consumers (as in customers) and what are we supposed to do?  I simply do not wish to live on a rabbit food diet. I've gotten so into veggies and stuff lately but I'm an omnivore and will remain one.

Someone with Billie's influence could reliably put a bit of pressure on the meat industry itself by rallying the cause around certain politicians who promise to change the practices and engage in thoughtful, respectful, and blameless conversations that need to happen but are touchy.

I love the girl so much but this sound bite is just gonna make people go buy a hamburger out of pure spite

[Ladle Ghoulash 53,146]

7 minutes ago, PartySick said:

I think you're hitting on the nuance of the issue.

Billie's quote here is gonna be taken very literally. "Eating ANY meat means you don't love animals". Idk if that's actually what she means but either way, that's just ridiculous. You can care about the welfare of animals, even livestock raised specifically to become food, and still eat what humans have been eating since before we were even humans.***

It's the industry itself that's evil. A lot of us are pretty powerless to change it other than giving our votes to politicians who promise to push back against the barbaric way they're run.

In the meantime, some people still buy meat and that's ok. A dietary choice isn't a moral choice when moral options are stripped away from consumers by corporations that have significant power. 

 

***A lot of vegans are correct that even though eating meat is natural and meat has been part of humanity's diet for literally millions of years, our society is at a point where we can make other choices to fill nutritional needs. But you can't force people to make those choices and it doesn't make somebody a bad person just 'cause they have a steak every now and then.

Not to mention that the advent of in vitro meat could very well make much meat production obsolete in the near future, so a transition to veganism across the board may end up becoming more feasible culturally and economically without people having to sacrifice what they enjoy about the taste of meat (assuming in vitro ends up being produced well on a mass scale).

[sarahb 17,188]

Steve Irwin ate meat 

[PartySick 172,545]

2 minutes ago, Ladle Ghoulash said:

Not to mention that the advent of in vitro meat could very well make much meat production obsolete in the near future, so a transition to veganism across the board may end up becoming more feasible culturally and economically without people having to sacrifice what they enjoy about the taste of meat (assuming in vitro ends up being produced well on a mass scale).

I really don't like the term "in vitro"  

But yeah, we can 3D print cruelty free burgers now (which are technically vegan, huh?), let's invest in that and provide a contrast between sustainable, ethical options and the barbarism of the current meat industry instead of telling 90% of the country they're sociopaths for a dietary decision.

[Emvee 8,832]

Isn’t it true though? I eat meat but technically you can’t claim to love animals if you consume from the modern food industry. But even if you hunt a deer and do a little prayer or whatever, you’re still using them for your own gain. That’s nature.
 

You can call it appreciation. You can call it respect. But you can’t call it love. That’s ****ing absurd.   That’s delusion to make yourself feel better about the realities of life. 

Edited April 29 by Emvee

[Bebe 17,289]

8 hours ago, Ladle Ghoulash said:

But this is honestly the reason why absolutist sloganeering is really bad for generating discussion: by refusing the space in which I’d imagine most people exist (eats meat, but fundamentally does care about/wants the ethical treatment of animals), you’re both misrepresenting and flattening what they actually think and feel while also forcing them into an essentially unwinnable binary, which naturally triggers defensiveness. Advocating for the ethical treatment of animals is one thing, but claiming that it’s wholly incompatible to love animals while simultaneously consuming animal products is a completely different statement. This type of messaging does precisely nothing for advocating for animals, imo, and, if anything, it negatively polarizes people that might be otherwise inclined to agree with her broader argument.

 

There isn't a way to have a conversation with those that eat meat without triggering a level of defensiveness.

I'm sorry, but this statement is so simple and not accusatory at all. It actually assumes that most people “love” animals while pointing out their actions contradict what they state they believe.

These statements may be uncomfortable to hear, but they are true.

The reality is we have all grown up in a culture that consumes meat and animal product. Criticising this is a critique on you personally, your family and your culture - it's an attack on your identity. That's hard to reconcile with our internal perception of ourselves.

At the end of the day, It's only an “unwinning binary”, because one position is indefensible but to accept the alternative is to accept a level of culpability and accepting this also necessitates a significant lifestyle change. It is a fancy way of saying “You’re right, but I don’t want to concede that I’m wrong because of what that means for my comfort”.

The fact is it IS wholly incompatible to love animals while simultaneously consuming animal products - like… I’m sorry but your actions completely contradict the belief you say you have.

If you love animals then amazing! Become a vegan 🙂 We’d love to have you and have plenty of delicious recipes and hints and tips to make it easier to transition!

[Ladle Ghoulash 53,146]

10 minutes ago, Bebe said:

There isn't a way to have a conversation with those that eat meat without triggering a level of defensiveness.

I'm sorry, but this statement is so simple and not accusatory at all. It actually assumes that most people “love” animals while pointing out their actions contradict what they state they believe.

These statements may be uncomfortable to hear, but they are true.

The reality is we have all grown up in a culture that consumes meat and animal product. Criticising this is a critique on you personally, your family and your culture - it's an attack on your identity. That's hard to reconcile with our internal perception of ourselves.

At the end of the day, It's only an “unwinning binary”, because one position is indefensible but to accept the alternative is to accept a level of culpability and accepting this also necessitates a significant lifestyle change. It is a fancy way of saying “You’re right, but I don’t want to concede that I’m wrong because of what that means for my comfort”.

The fact is it IS wholly incompatible to love animals while simultaneously consuming animal products - like… I’m sorry but your actions completely contradict the belief you say you have.

If you love animals then amazing! Become a vegan 🙂 We’d love to have you and have plenty of delicious recipes and hints and tips to make it easier to transition!

This post only proves a lot of my original point, btw. You’re basically doing exactly what I was describing but putting smiley emojis after every attempt to force an absolute binary.

Edited April 29 by Ladle Ghoulash