Billie: “You can eat meat. You can love animals. But you can’t do boooooooooth.”

[apollorowling 903]

6 minutes ago, Bebe said:

Are you hunting rats and pigeons to make stew? I mean it’s so telling that everyone here has to go to such extremes to justify their own diet.

You are not in a survival situation, you can choose the oat milk/soy milk/almond milk instead.

Your point is still stupid. You complain about us and then do the same thing, dismissing specific situations. I'm not interested in oat milk, soy milk, nuts, or anything else you can think of. The only difference between you and me is that I don't think I'm superior for believing I'm "better" by contributing to a "cruel and unfair" world 😂. That's life. If you don't like it, that's your problem 🤗 Nobody cares about your oat milk. We don't bother anyone, but you...

[LGAte 821]

She is right actually!

 

but this is where morality doesn’t always line up with reality and people have to make mistakes.
 

because not only is this is impossible to implement. There are just not enough fruits and vegetables to feed earth right now. It also completely ignores the fact that humans are genetically built to eat meat and we aren’t the only species- meaning it’s a naturally occurring phenomenon across the ecological spectrum. 
 

so yeah it’s nuanced but impossible. 

[elegidadedios 4,902]

The way I can tell most vegans are because they've got white guilt so they need to find a movement to join and play the woke card, presenting themselves as "good people"

And that's a #FACT #STAYPRESSED

[apollorowling 903]

5 minutes ago, elegidadedios said:

"go vegan" 

why don't you go clever instead i'm tiredddddddddd bring me a beer

Yeah, this argument with this vegan has gotten ridiculous. It's like they're trying to force you to be vegan.

[Bebe 17,289]

1 minute ago, apollorowling said:

Your point is still stupid. You complain about us and then do the same thing, dismissing specific situations. I'm not interested in oat milk, soy milk, nuts, or anything else you can think of. The only difference between you and me is that I don't think I'm superior for believing I'm "better" by contributing to a "cruel and unfair" world 😂. That's life. If you don't like it, that's your problem 🤗 Nobody cares about your oat milk. We don't bother anyone, but you...

I’m not dismissing specific situations - I’m just not going to allow you to use it as an excuse! Go eat pigeons and rats if you need to in order to survive, I am about eliminating unnecessary harm. I’ve said the same earlier in this topic.

The fact that you would happily support an industry that results in cows being repeatedly raped and forced to become pregnant, the separation of the cow from its calf at birth, for the torture the calf for veal as its mother paces and calls out in distress for weeks, for the mothers udders to be in pain due to being selectively bred to produce and hold more milk, for it to be forcibly impregnated again, for its joints to become extremely painful due to the repeated forced pregnancies… all because your not really interested in oat milk is frankly abhorrent.

Your complete lack of empathy for animals is bordering sociopathic. It’s giving I torture small animals for fun. 

[Bronco 25,131]

14 minutes ago, Bebe said:

Are you hunting rats and pigeons to make stew? I mean it’s so telling that everyone here has to go to such extremes to justify their own diet.

The american supremacism is so blatant its almost boring.

Can't fathom the idea that non-American countries face different realities significantly different to your own so naturally its extremism.

The Argentinian poverty rate peaked at over 50% not even 2 full years ago. And yet you think its extreme for a latin forum member to share real world experience. 

[apollorowling 903]

2 minutes ago, Bebe said:

I’m not dismissing specific situations - I’m just not going to allow you to use it as an excuse! Go eat pigeons and rats if you need to in order to survive, I am about eliminating unnecessary harm. I’ve said the same earlier in this topic.

The fact that you would happily support an industry that results in cows being repeatedly raped and forced to become pregnant, the separation of the cow from its calf at birth, for the torture the calf for veal as its mother paces and calls out in distress for weeks, for the mothers udders to be in pain due to being selectively bred to produce and hold more milk, for it to be forcibly impregnated again, for its joints to become extremely painful due to the repeated forced pregnancies… all because your not really interested in oat milk is frankly abhorrent.

Your complete lack of empathy for animals is bordering sociopathic. It’s giving I torture small animals for fun. 

HAHAHAHA NOW I'M A SOCIOPATH, GO TAKE A NAP.

[Morphine Prince 109,683]

2 hours ago, Bronco said:

Its definitely cheaper if you are focusing purely on whole foods and home cooking. 

The problem is, the people who would benefit the most from this route are the people stuck in negative cycle caused by capitalism where they're often forced to rely on convenience meals/ready meals/take out meals due to the labour demands placed on them. 

And that's where veggie/vegan options become more expensive - the so called "vegan" tax on branded products. There's not been enough of a market shift yet so that there are an abundance of cheap value brand convenience meal options for vegans yet. 

Yeah, I was focusing on groceries and cooking. 

You can be a vegetarian or vegan *at home* without buying branded ultra processed products. 

Being vegan means you are forced to put more thought into what you consume and what nutrients you need to supplement.

It’s still a dietary lifestyle that isn’t attainable for everyone for multiple reasons. 

[Bronco 25,131]

4 minutes ago, Bebe said:

I am about eliminating unnecessary harm.

And yet you've attacked and ridiculed anyone who points out examples of harm within society that impact uptake of veganism.

Rather than talk about the reality of how the system is designed, you've dismissed any reference to struggles as extremism.

Edited April 29 by Bronco

[apollorowling 903]

4 minutes ago, Bronco said:

The american supremacism is so blatant its almost boring.

Can't fathom the idea that non-American countries face different realities significantly different to your own so naturally its extremism.

The Argentinian poverty rate peaked at over 50% not even 2 full years ago. And yet you think its extreme for a latin forum member to share real world experience. 

Thank you! I'm from Uruguay, and we have slums and informal settlements here too, but Argentina is much worse. There are two or three times as many settlements with 100-200 children who eat only once a day, whatever can be donated—noodles, milk, anything. They don't even have electricity, and what I said before is true. I've seen groups of children hunting guinea pigs, pigeons, and ducks to make a stew and share it among themselves. They even scavenge vegetables from the garbage. It's a reality throughout the country. Veganism isn't possible; it's been drastically reduced because there's no access to food anymore. There aren't even enough resources to survive.

[Bebe 17,289]

19 minutes ago, elegidadedios said:

The way I can tell most vegans are because they've got white guilt so they need to find a movement to join and play the woke card, presenting themselves as "good people"

And that's a #FACT #STAYPRESSED

Babe, I’m the wrong person to accuse of that bahahahaha. 

Very politically active in my community and have been very hands on involved in supporting indigenous and minority lead media and protest campaigns. 
 

I was introduced to vegetarianism through my Indian family friends who were vegetarian. A lot of Indian dishes are. From there I learned a lot more about factory farming during my university studies and won a scholarship from my writing on the subject.
 

You cannot engage with the points I’m making so your resorting to ad hominem.

[Bronco 25,131]

3 minutes ago, apollorowling said:

Thank you! I'm from Uruguay, and we have slums and informal settlements here too, but Argentina is much worse. There are two or three times as many settlements with 100-200 children who eat only once a day, whatever can be donated—noodles, milk, anything. They don't even have electricity, and what I said before is true. I've seen groups of children hunting guinea pigs, pigeons, and ducks to make a stew and share it among themselves. They even scavenge vegetables from the garbage. It's a reality throughout the country. Veganism isn't possible; it's been drastically reduced because there's no access to food anymore. There aren't even enough resources to survive.

Yeah I've had friends backpack around Latin America in the last 12 months (some still there) and the deprivation they are seeing is insane compared to what other friends saw like 5-10 years ago

[Bebe 17,289]

9 minutes ago, Bronco said:

The american supremacism is so blatant its almost boring.

Can't fathom the idea that non-American countries face different realities significantly different to your own so naturally its extremism.

The Argentinian poverty rate peaked at over 50% not even 2 full years ago. And yet you think its extreme for a latin forum member to share real world experience. 

Girl I’m not American.

I’ve made my position very clear on the situation of those eating meat for survival reasons - which is that it is acceptable?

Let’s not pretend you are eating pigeons though - let’s be real. You can become vegan! You’re not in that situation.

[apollorowling 903]

1 minute ago, Bebe said:

From there I learned a lot more about factory farming during my university studies and won a scholarship from my writing on the subject.

Good for You! Maybe next time you could write how one can be vegan in Venezuela for example, when the month salary it's 3 dollars.

[Morphine Prince 109,683]

I need to push back on some of you. 

You absolutely CAN engage in veganism without believing humans are the same as animals or any of the other dogma. 

For instance, you CAN choose oat milk with your coffee, you CAN choose to cut back on animal products. 

Of course not every single person has the access or choice, but you don’t have to label yourself a vegan to participate in vegan choices