Indegenous Tribes on Billie Eilish's Grammys speech

[PartySick 166,155]

1 minute ago, elegidadedios said:

You have a good point on the matter (the image part), don't get me wrong, but I do consider her saying "nobody is illegal in stolen land" out of all things is a hard take knowing what we know. 

That being said, and in general terms, I think saying "nobody is illegal in stolen land" is dangerous and risky in the long run. Mostly because it would open up a debate about laws not being important and borders do matter for a democracy, or worse: if no one is illegal in stolen land, every single soul is "legal". I think saying something like "immigrant rights are human rights and those are fundamental" would fit way more

Don't know if this is the correct thread to state this opinion but I still wanted to say it (no need to say I live in Spain but it's obvious that what happens in the USA will affect the rest of us, so)

It's just a punchier way of saying "stop abducting immigrants and locking them in detention centers, you creepy ass white supremacists".

You have to take into account the intention behind the words, not just the words themselves. She isn't calling for the abolition of borders, she's calling for the humane treatment of immigrants regardless of their documented status.

[thedirtymonster 763]

Give people an inch, they want a mile. If Billie wouldn't have said anything, then they wouldn't be begging for more attention. Should she just have not said anything at all and left them in the dark? Why not harbor a progressive relationship with allies, realize who the common enemy is, and work towards change?

This is a very similar situation with the Far Left in US politics. They want all or nothing. They refuse to realize who the allies are that will work towards incremental change, and instead create rifts within the progressive side of US politics, suppressing the vote for people who would work towards change (in a system that works slowly by design), and ultimately prop up the Far-Right MAGA Republicans.

Make it make sense. Do we want progress and change, or not? If so, we need to realize how we achieve it.

[elegidadedios 2,952]

Just now, PartySick said:

It's just a punchier way of saying "stop abducting immigrants and locking them in detention centers, you creepy ass white supremacists".

You have to take into account the intention behind the words, not just the words themselves. She isn't calling for the abolition of borders, she's calling for the humane treatment of immigrants regardless of their documented status.

200% agree on what you said, and I don't think she's calling for the abolition of borders, in fact, just repeating an online statement. I'm certainly not directing my opinion on what she said, but towards anyone who would say such a thing. If the stolen land narrative really permeate on people and mostly on politics, what's the point on having a constitution? What's the point on articulating *this particular land* as a country? I'm just trying to see the bigger picture

[PartySick 166,155]

Just now, elegidadedios said:

200% agree on what you said, and I don't think she's calling for the abolition of borders, in fact, just repeating an online statement. I'm certainly not directing my opinion on what she said, but towards anyone who would say such a thing. If the stolen land narrative really permeate on people and mostly on politics, what's the point on having a constitution? What's the point on articulating *this particular land* as a country? I'm just trying to see the bigger picture

I mean, anyone who's reaching that hard is doing so in bad faith anyway so we shouldn't even worry about them. They're not persuadable to begin with and their bias is almost certainly that "the dumb celebrity should shut up about ICE, my president is doing a great job #MAGA".

If we really wanna have a discussion about land that was stolen 400+ years ago, we can talk about how to integrate more protections and reparations for native populations into our laws and society but nobody who is serious about the topic of native American rights would go as far as to disqualify the US from existing period.

That's as ridiculous as people expecting Israel to up and dissolve and all the Israelis move to Europe leaving the land for Palestinians.

It's just not a real thing and it's not worth our time to entertain such distractions and bad faith hyperbolic hypotheticals.

[elegidadedios 2,952]

1 minute ago, PartySick said:

I mean, anyone who's reaching that hard is doing so in bad faith anyway so we shouldn't even worry about them. They're not persuadable to begin with and their bias is almost certainly that "the dumb celebrity should shut up about ICE, my president is doing a great job #MAGA".

If we really wanna have a discussion about land that was stolen 400+ years ago, we can talk about how to integrate more protections and reparations for native populations into our laws and society but nobody who is serious about the topic of native American rights would go as far as to disqualify the US from existing period.

That's as ridiculous as people expecting Israel to up and dissolve and all the Israelis move to Europe leaving the land for Palestinians.

It's just not a real thing and it's not worth our time to entertain such distractions and bad faith hyperbolic hypotheticals.

I didn't go that far not even in my inner thoughts 😭 i just think there should be some rephrasing 

[Dojo 19,760]

Probably one of the reasons Gaga stays silent most of the time because damned if you do, damned if you don't, like in this case 

[NCgaga 4,344]

As a gay minority, Nothing is enjoyable anymore with live tv award shows anymore at least in America. You can’t even watch the Grammys anymore and enjoy music without getting bible nonsense scream/preached at you by Jelly Roll, or White Guilt liberal celebrities performatively giving constant self hate lectures. In every day life things aren’t this devisive. Americans go to work and work with very diverse people and go home. Life is good. But when you turn on the tv and watch the Grammys, it’s like it’s pushing a weird narrative to try to get you to hate yourself. It’s so weird. I don’t know, just my perspective. It seems like a lot of Americans on this website are also trained to hate themselves or feel massive guilt for being American. You’re just citizens, just like everyone else on this planet. Like give yourselves a break. And then when elections don’t go your way it’s always the hardcore right or left go insane. When Biden was president the right was going crazy, now Trump is president and the hardcore left is going crazy. I think everyone in America needs to go to a third world country for a week, and they will come back with a different level of thinking. 

[PartySick 166,155]

1 hour ago, NCgaga said:

now Trump is president and the hardcore left is going crazy.

Wild energy considering the reality of the situation 

It's not like "oh, a conservative is in power right now, let's all pee our pants and hold our breath"

The very institutions of our democracy are under attack and millions are in direct danger of abduction and physical harm at the hands of a unchecked and poorly trained paramilitary force  

[RAMROD 112,688]

4 hours ago, nATAH said:

because it's stupid to pressure celebrities to use their platform only to pick them apart for doing so

everyone on this thread is pointing out how it's twisted their words

Providing space for discussion for engaging minds isn't stupid, as you can see how this thread grows into 

My personal belief on things is not part of it  

[Morphine Prince 108,501]

2 hours ago, NCgaga said:

As a gay minority, Nothing is enjoyable anymore with live tv award shows anymore at least in America. You can’t even watch the Grammys anymore and enjoy music without getting bible nonsense scream/preached at you by Jelly Roll, or White Guilt liberal celebrities performatively giving constant self hate lectures. In every day life things aren’t this devisive. Americans go to work and work with very diverse people and go home. Life is good. But when you turn on the tv and watch the Grammys, it’s like it’s pushing a weird narrative to try to get you to hate yourself. It’s so weird. I don’t know, just my perspective. It seems like a lot of Americans on this website are also trained to hate themselves or feel massive guilt for being American. You’re just citizens, just like everyone else on this planet. Like give yourselves a break. And then when elections don’t go your way it’s always the hardcore right or left go insane. When Biden was president the right was going crazy, now Trump is president and the hardcore left is going crazy. I think everyone in America needs to go to a third world country for a week, and they will come back with a different level of thinking. 

This is the weirdest take I’ve seen and I’ve seen a lot. 

Life is good? 

Americans are being executed by government forces. Undocumented immigrants are being rounded up like criminals for coming here and working to better their families while the actual criminals are in power. 

Nobody is trained to “hate themselves” tf? Most of us are demanding accountability from our government. 

My family comes from the “third world” as you call it and that is NOT something we’d like the US to be which is exactly why we should demand better from our government and society. 

[ALGAYDO 33,977]

9 hours ago, thedirtymonster said:

Give people an inch, they want a mile. If Billie wouldn't have said anything, then they wouldn't be begging for more attention. Should she just have not said anything at all and left them in the dark? Why not harbor a progressive relationship with allies, realize who the common enemy is, and work towards change?

This is a very similar situation with the Far Left in US politics. They want all or nothing. They refuse to realize who the allies are that will work towards incremental change, and instead create rifts within the progressive side of US politics, suppressing the vote for people who would work towards change (in a system that works slowly by design), and ultimately prop up the Far-Right MAGA Republicans.

Make it make sense. Do we want progress and change, or not? If so, we need to realize how we achieve it.

Girl what are you taking about, they didn’t say say anything negative towards Billie lol 

Edited Wednesday at 06:08 AM by ALGAYDO

[Ashley 9,873]

3 hours ago, NCgaga said:

As a gay minority, Nothing is enjoyable anymore with live tv award shows anymore at least in America. You can’t even watch the Grammys anymore and enjoy music without getting bible nonsense scream/preached at you by Jelly Roll, or White Guilt liberal celebrities performatively giving constant self hate lectures. In every day life things aren’t this devisive. Americans go to work and work with very diverse people and go home. Life is good. But when you turn on the tv and watch the Grammys, it’s like it’s pushing a weird narrative to try to get you to hate yourself. It’s so weird. I don’t know, just my perspective. It seems like a lot of Americans on this website are also trained to hate themselves or feel massive guilt for being American. You’re just citizens, just like everyone else on this planet. Like give yourselves a break. And then when elections don’t go your way it’s always the hardcore right or left go insane. When Biden was president the right was going crazy, now Trump is president and the hardcore left is going crazy. I think everyone in America needs to go to a third world country for a week, and they will come back with a different level of thinking. 

[gagzus 17,387]

I think two things can be true, she can advocate for wanting change whilst also being on stolen land. The entire country is stolen because of European (predominantly British and Spanish) Catholics anyway.

I still stand on not needing celebrities to advocate for these things but hey at least she’s doing something positive and chose to do so.

[MadArchitect 1,317]

the worse part is she said it like it was a tagline and that's it, it felt so weird and contrived to me, she just said it and didn't elaborate at all, then she awkwardly looked at her brother as if needed to approve, and he was like oh yes billie said the line, and then they left like that... she just gives so much performative activist vibes

Edited Wednesday at 04:36 AM by MadArchitect

[ode 1,534]

eeek

Edited Wednesday at 09:57 AM by ode
yala