Why are all the pop girls silent?

[Bronco 18,136]

17 minutes ago, elegidadedios said:

See this is why I stopped believing progressive people are in the same mindset and living mode as me. We see a blonde rebel girl who's vaguely queer, who gifted us an album dedicated to the LGBT community and the instant thought is: "oh she's one of us, she obviously have to speak up on how democracy is about to die in order to be replaced by a police State"

Girl no

See I see whats happened throughout history to effect change. 

Ya know

Things like celebrities presenting a joint front of solidarity during the AIDS crisis by forcing the Reagans out of the social circles they loved. Which is often discussed in politics as being so infuriating to Nancy Reagan that she became a major factor in Reagan finally acknowledging the ongoing crisis and having the federal government start taking action. 

Or the countless times big names like Sinatra refused to work with segregated jazz clubs or forced them to desegregate for his performances and treat his black friends as equals. 
Or in 1954 when Betty White not only refused to stop platforming Arthur Duncan on her tv show because of boycott threats by Southern TV stations, she actively gave him more airtime. 

Solidarity isn't about everyone being in the same living mode. It has never been about that, otherwise it wouldn't be solidarity it'd just be community orgainising and class conciousness. 
Solidarity is about everyone regardless of their background working together for the cause. 

When the gays went and fundraised for the miners in the UK - it wasn't because of mindsets and shared lived experiences. It was solidarity. People who saw the oppression from the state and opposed it and set out to help. And as a result it led to working class activists taking up the gay rights cause in solidarity and setting the UK up for actual progressive change. 

[Mason 257]

Maybe what is happening right now is informing some of her upcoming music

[Morphine Prince 109,181]

Honestly if you want to speak up do it, if not, at least those who have a history of speaking up I don’t care to see much about. 

It’s the ones who have always been completely silent that I’m side eyeing. 

At the end of the day it’s a choice. 

[elegidadedios 3,666]

13 minutes ago, Bronco said:

See I see whats happened throughout history to effect change. 

Ya know

Things like celebrities presenting a joint front of solidarity during the AIDS crisis by forcing the Reagans out of the social circles they loved. Which is often discussed in politics as being so infuriating to Nancy Reagan that she became a major factor in Reagan finally acknowledging the ongoing crisis and having the federal government start taking action. 

Or the countless times big names like Sinatra refused to work with segregated jazz clubs or forced them to desegregate for his performances and treat his black friends as equals. 
Or in 1954 when Betty White not only refused to stop platforming Arthur Duncan on her tv show because of boycott threats by Southern TV stations, she actively gave him more airtime. 

Solidarity isn't about everyone being in the same living mode. It has never been about that, otherwise it wouldn't be solidarity it'd just be community orgainising and class conciousness. 
Solidarity is about everyone regardless of their background working together for the cause. 

When the gays went and fundraised for the miners in the UK - it wasn't because of mindsets and shared lived experiences. It was solidarity. People who saw the oppression from the state and opposed it and set out to help. And as a result it led to working class activists taking up the gay rights cause in solidarity and setting the UK up for actual progressive change. 

You're 200% right but no need to point out you were not able to give current examples. Basically because society as of right now doesn't work like that anymore. Sadly. Bigger things need to happen right now.

Also, when I said "living mode", I meant "social class" (still don't know if that's a proper way to express it) - didn't mean personal experiences. English ain't my mother tongue so there are several ideas that when translated they don't fit that well I guess

Edited January 26 by elegidadedios

[Bronco 18,136]

13 minutes ago, elegidadedios said:

You're 200% right but no need to point out you were not able to give current examples. Basically because society as of right now doesn't work like that anymore. Sadly. Bigger things need to happen right now.

I'd argue its because of rampant individualism that this is the case. 

And that create get out of jail free cards for people who don't provide their solidarity is just contributing to the problem while doing nothing to solve it.

[elegidadedios 3,666]

8 minutes ago, Bronco said:

I'd argue its because of rampant individualism that this is the case. 

And that create get out of jail free cards for people who don't provide their solidarity is just contributing to the problem while doing nothing to solve it.

Sorry I'm still trying to figure out what you meant by the second paragraph 

[Ladle Ghoulash 37,699]

13 minutes ago, Bronco said:

I'd argue its because of rampant individualism that this is the case. 

And that create get out of jail free cards for people who don't provide their solidarity is just contributing to the problem while doing nothing to solve it.

Conversely, I do think the fixation on celebrity proxies can also be a personal get out jail free card for some stans online who might say, “Whew, my fave did the right thing” and then move on without having actually personally contributed anything (pressure to reps, fundraising etc.)

Edited January 26 by Ladle Ghoulash

[River 122,617]

46 minutes ago, PartySick said:

 What are we giving these people all this money and power for if they're just gonna sit on it? 

well, that's the harsh truth, we give them money because they give us a service, this is capitalism.

46 minutes ago, PartySick said:

You can vote out politicians, all you can do to celebrities is criticize them and stop buying their sh*t.

hmm no, it's not their job, they are singers lol, they are pop stars, they are the definition of capitalism, the social contract that we have with them is "you entertain me, I pay you" and that's it.. this is their role, this is why we have celebrities. 

Last elections proved that the only impact they are doing is in favor of Trump, because when they endorsed Kamala or Biden, when they spoke up about social issues, all it did was to give more points to Trump, because people saw them as the elite, rich, privileged people who are going against America, against Christianity, against all the fundamental structure of the USA..

This is the only impact they did.. because they are not politicians, they are biased, they have a career, they want money, they need to make money.

Gaga with the LGBTQ+ was once in a lifetime thing, we will never have another celeb who will speak for us and even she gave up. MJ as well, there is and there will be only one MJ, nobody, ever ever, will be as kind as he was. it's unfortunate, but society and politics has changed since.

[Franch Toast 27,550]

I'm not looking for celebrities to speak up about this. I'm looking for everyone to speak up about this, except for people who can't do so safely (such as immigrants, especially non-citizens). 

I am rarely political on social media (very careful about vetting my sources before I share and asking myself whether the world needs Franch's opinions on something), and even I cannot remain silent. 

Many creators I follow are speaking up––people who usually post content about cooking, skincare, cute dogs. And most of them are POC and women, many are immigrants––they are speaking up even though they are more vulnerable. Many celebrities are speaking up, including many POC, queer people, and immigrants. 

Not saying anything is a choice. 

The only thing I can think about Gaga is she's outside the US right now, and she might not want to risk anyone on her team, especially those who aren't US citizens, having trouble at border control when returning to the US. 

If Gaga's St. Paul shows happen and aren't cancelled because of what's happening, I wonder if she will say something there, the same way she acknowledged Uvalde when she played Dallas during Chromatica Ball. 

 

[elsamars 7,101]

16 hours ago, Ladle Ghoulash said:

I think you misunderstand what I mean when I say “performative” because I’m not saying that it’s intrinsically hollow or even pointless so much as  I’m saying celebrities signal boosting or amplifying political mostly serves as a sign to others about where they stand and doesn’t directly effect material outcomes in any pronounced way. I think that can be *helpful*, but I don’t think it moves the needle in any meaningful way nor does compelling it require the level of urgency some folks treat it with as opposed to the urgency required to compel pols to stand up and do their jobs to actually stop this ****.

On the issue of speaking giving people hope, there are so many Minnesotans out in the streets who genuinely give me hope in the way they’re fighting back in a way that Gaga posting about it on IG never could, tbh. There’s some brave motherf*ckers out there and I think it’s fair to say that there are probably very few people on this thread that don’t stand with them during this period of unrest.

 

There was a similar argument I read on Reddit today. It was pophead subreddit and every top comment was calling out and attacking Billie Eillish for being performative. I was shocked at the reaction. Then I scrolled down all the way down and I found out people like me shocked at the reaction. I want to post them

[Ladle Ghoulash 37,699]

4 minutes ago, elsamars said:

There was a similar argument I read on Reddit today. It was pophead subreddit and every top comment was calling out and attacking Billie Eillish for being performative. I was shocked at the reaction. Then I scrolled down all the way down and I found out people like me shocked at the reaction. I want to post them

Again, I would appreciate if you actually read what I wrote instead of having a knee jerk reaction to what you think I mean by “performative.” 

Edited January 26 by Ladle Ghoulash

[LunaUniverse 4,391]

12 minutes ago, Franch Toast said:

I'm not looking for celebrities to speak up about this. I'm looking for everyone to speak up about this, except for people who can't do so safely (such as immigrants, especially non-citizens). 

I am rarely political on social media (very careful about vetting my sources before I share and asking myself whether the world needs Franch's opinions on something), and even I cannot remain silent. 

Many creators I follow are speaking up––people who usually post content about cooking, skincare, cute dogs. And most of them are POC and women, many are immigrants––they are speaking up even though they are more vulnerable. Many celebrities are speaking up, including many POC, queer people, and immigrants. 

Not saying anything is a choice. 

The only thing I can think about Gaga is she's outside the US right now, and she might not want to risk anyone on her team, especially those who aren't US citizens, having trouble at border control when returning to the US. 

If Gaga's St. Paul shows happen and aren't cancelled because of what's happening, I wonder if she will say something there, the same way she acknowledged Uvalde when she played Dallas during Chromatica Ball. 

 

She mentioned something at yesterday’s Tokyo show about being saddened lately by the state of the country. I think she doesn’t want to put her touring team in danger since a lot of them aren’t American. She’ll probably say something at the first American show or will be asked about it during the Grammys 

[elsamars 7,101]

25 minutes ago, Ladle Ghoulash said:

Again, I would appreciate if you actually read what I wrote instead of having a knee jerk reaction to what you think I mean by “performative.” 

I don't know why you're so aggresive. I'm just posting what some fellow Minnesota residents feel and how they want there to be more voice. Minnesotans being on the street can give you hope but some Minnesotans themselves feel left alone by the rest of the states. I think that matters. It's not a knee jerk reaction to word performative. I already posted my thoughts on how labeling things performative can be dangerous. It does not matter how you "mean" it, it's how people understand it. The word has a general negative meaning and it is so dangerous to use this label as it will lead to more silence.

Edited January 26 by elsamars

[Ladle Ghoulash 37,699]

2 minutes ago, elsamars said:

I don't know why you're so aggresive. I'm just posting what some fellow Minnesota residents feel and how they want there to be more voice. It's not a knee jerk reaction to word performative.

How am I being aggressive?

[Bronco 18,136]

51 minutes ago, Ladle Ghoulash said:

Conversely, I do think the fixation on celebrity proxies can also be a personal get out jail free card for some stans online who might say, “Whew, my fave did the right thing” and then move on without having actually personally contributed anything (pressure to reps, fundraising etc.)

You are 100% correct with that. 

Stans are always a problem. 

55 minutes ago, elegidadedios said:

Sorry I'm still trying to figure out what you meant by the second paragraph 

My dyslexia kinda ****ed up the wording lol 
This is what I meant to say: 

We shouldn't be allowing people like celebrities (or anyone realistically) to hide behind the issues of modern society. If we excuse their silence we are giving them a free pass and this weakens the push for solidarity.