Beyonce didn’t want to do “Telephone”, because it was Techno-Pop

[salty like sodium 1,764]

20 hours ago, VTV said:

I can see where Bey is coming from. The final solo demo really sounds bland imo compared to RedOne tracks. She's just being too nice. The redo really saved it.

 

PS: i didnt know her official YT uploaded a solo album version of Telephone during pandemic titled Telephone (w/o Beyonce) 

oooof this feels soooo weird, especially the repeated chorus where they removed the beyoncé verse 

[OliviaRodrigoStan 6,524]

1 minute ago, salty like sodium said:

@OliviaRodrigoStan Have you ever listened to a Beyoncé song?  

Yes, the ones that are good enough to be popular and represent her as an artist, I have listened to. And she sounds like a great R&B singer in all of them . 

Nothing wrong with that, she's leagues above most in her genre, I just don't see any legitimate "genre conquering" besides... her actual genre, which R&B and Pop Music . 

5 minutes ago, salty like sodium said:

(1) Virgo's Groove (R&B croon + falsetto) (2) Daughter (Opera style singing)

I'm sorry but this is why I often can't take musical takes, from pop stans, seriously. Beyoncé using her head voice is not her "conquering" a different music genre, that's a level of delusion that's leading you guys to make these wild claims .

You HAVE to take the stan glasses off to have these type of conversations, it's unserious to me. You can't legitimately be making the argument that Beyoncé is "a versatile singer" because she used her head voice in one song 💀. 

This is Bel Canto, a legitimate singing style that requires discipline and vocal excellence: 

This is a wonderful R&B singer using her head voice for dramatic effect on a song: 

They're not the same, and you cannot claim expertise on Beyoncé's part over such field. She still sounds R&B on that bridge, and the song in't a remarkable production of either country, or classical music. 

Such would be legitimate "genre conquering": to have a meaningful artistic contribution to a musical genre, becoming a relevant name within that space. If you think 15 seconds of head voice singing with vibrato makes her an opera singer, and that represents "genre conquering" on her end, then you must believe JoJo Siwa conquered rap music with this song: 

To even include such thing in a conversation about Beyoncé's musical contributions, to any music genre besides R&B, can only be considered either ignorance regarding the alleged genres you guys claim she's "conquered", or delusion . I love Lady GaGa, but I would never entertain the idea that she's a classical singer because she used her head voice on "Bloody Mary", the "Sound Of Music" tribute and "Abracadabra" bridge. 

She used that sound to achieve a specific effect, and bring a particular atmosphere to her songs. But she's not profficient in it, nor is she outstanding in such singing style, hence why I can't call her a classical singer, unless I was trying be get laughed out of the room by actual classical music schollars. I can appreciate GaGa's efforts to keep her sound fresh, without being delusional.

Same is true about Beyoncé's use of her head voice on that song you brought up. She's mimicking an operatic sound to evoke a sense of drama solemnity, which is a completely valid artistic choice. But that is not an example of "genre conquering" . 

This is conquering Bel Canto: 

"Daughter" by Beyoncé is pop-country song by an R&B artist, with a dramatic bridge. Not the same thing. Touching a music style with a teen feet pole, on a completely surface level, is not "genre conquering" .

Again, I can use GaGa as an example: "Bloody Mary" includes gothic elements. Will I say she's a gothic artist because she has one song that includes a gothic choir? will I say she's an opera singer because of Abracadabra's bridge? no, because I'm educated on both gothic, and classical music, and GaGa isn't representative of either genre. Bloody Mary is not a remarkable gothic piece, and Abracadabra is not a remarkable classical piece; they're both POP songs, with minor elements from said genres . 

I as a fan can understand that and appreciate GaGa for what she actually is: a great Pop musician with a taste for drama and retro glamour. THAT is the part some Beyoncé fans struggle with. 

Some of you don't seem capable of appreciating Beyoncé for her actual artistic strenghts (her voice and her dancing skills) and feel the need to inflate her creative merit, in order to position her as a bigger creative force than she actually is . Beyoncé is an interpreter, and a performer, a great one at that. 

But she's not an author, a writer, or an innovator on any field besides R&B. She never brought significant creative contributions to any musical genre, beyond R&B/Pop, and is not a recognized figure in any other genre, besides those two. 

The "genre conquering" narrative exists exclusively within her fanbase, and I don't get it . If we were talking about someone with little to no talent like Katy Perry, then I could understand why her fanbase would be inclined to inflate her creative merits. 

But Beyoncé does have real talent to "brag" about if that's the need: she has a beautiful voice, and is a great live performer, WHY do you guys need to be delusional? . You're just setting yourselves up to be triggered time and time again, because of course you'll be challenged when claiming she innovating in all these genres, she's not, she's touching all of them on surface level, and adding nothing of value to any of them . 

And when I say: "Nothing of value", I do not mean her music is awful or can't be enjoyed. If you guys love it, that's great . A lot of people here LOVE "Bloody Mary", but I surely hope nobody on this site thinks that song is considered relevant or influential in actual gothic spaces, because that certainly isn't the case . 

You can't enjoy "Cowboy Carter" without deluding yourself into believing that album meant anything for the actual country genre, when it barely sounds country for the most part. If you guys were to say: "Beyoncé is... artistically curious, and likes to incorporate different elements to her music to keep it fresh", I wouldn't challenge that, cause it would be true. 

She does like to renovate her sound and try new things, that much is true. Now, when I hear you guys talk so confidently about "genre conquering", when literally all of her music sounds R&B/Pop, I have to wonder if those genres are aware at all that they have been "conquered" by Beyoncé, cause I don't think they are .

1 hour ago, salty like sodium said:

What I don't understand is the need to diminish her abilities, deny her involvement in her own work (were you there in the room with her?) and strip her of her agency.

In order to "diminish" her merits, I would have to disregard her contributions, which I'm not doing. She's a wonderful singer and I give her credit for that, I don't think she's overrated, I think she has the level of success she deserves, based on her charisma, vocal abilities and performing skills. 

Me acknowledging the fact that her songs have 900 writers each, and she's known to be an interpreter, rather than a composer, is neither a need of mine, nor an act of diminishing her merits as a musician. That is me appropriately praising her actual strenghts, instead of inflating her talents. 

I'm neither a hater, nor a lover. I'm completely neutral when it comes to Beyoncé, I enjoy some of her songs as a casual listener ("Break My Soul", "Telephone", "Halo", "Survivor", and a bunch more), and I'm indifferent towards most of her catalogue. Pointing out the fact that she has not contributed to other musical genres besides R&B/Pop is not me "feeling the need to bring her down", I simply think she really hasn't done that at all . 

But like I said: I don't hate Beyoncé, I just don't see where the genre conquering is, I don't hear it in her music. We disagree on this matter, and that's ok, because this is just pop music, is not that serious 

[salty like sodium 1,764]

33 minutes ago, OliviaRodrigoStan said:

Yes, the ones that are good enough to be popular and represent her as an artist, I have listened to. And she sounds like a great R&B singer in all of them . [...] she's not an author, a writer, or an innovator on any field besides R&B. She never brought significant creative contributions to any musical genre, beyond R&B/Pop, and is not a recognized figure in any other genre, besides those two.

I was going to do a point by point reply but honestly these two sentences killed my flow. So to just summarize briefly, because I'm losing bandwidth to write long chapters in reply to others on this forum, it's turning into a full-time job at this rate 

1. I never claimed Beyoncé had CONQUERED anything. Someone else said that but it wasn't me, please don't accuse me of saying things that I did not say and calling me delulu for things I DID NOT SAY.

2. You must really think pretty highly of yourself to be able to assert Beyoncé is not an author or a writer, despite documented evidence of collaborators explaining how she fits into the creative process and is a part of that, all the while admitting you don't even listen to her music beyond the "famous song". Who exactly died and gave you the right to determine whether she was an author or not, and why would your opinion on that be more valid than those of people who actually worked with her? As soon as that point was made, I understood it was pointless to really engage more fully in this discussion.

3. Cowboy Carter already is credited for having brought more black country artists to the limelight, which led to Shaboozy nabbing a #1 hit song for 19-consecutive weeks. (A record-typing streak, 19 consecutive weeks being the longest a song has ever topped the chart). This is widely accepted as a consequence of his being featured on Cowboy Carter, and is an example of how her contributions have been significant. Her explorations of new genres are also very recent still. People now are only just crediting 2010s Gaga and Beyoncé music as influences. Who knows how these works will fare over time? They're brand new. Maybe a whole wave of black country artists in 2032 will be inspired by Cowboy Carter. You have no way of knowing this today. Also, you're overlooking the fact she's also introducing those genres to pop fans who did not listen to them before – and that is also a contribution in its own right, just like when Gaga did Joanne and brought attention to country-inspired music to her fans. It's great you think you're the ultimate gatekeeper and sole arbiter of what a relevant contribution is, but the reality is that these contributions do their part, even if it's not in the way you expect or desire.

4. Pop is not a genre. It's literally shorthand for "popular" and is a catch-all term to represent any musical genre that has a wide audience and is overplayed on the radio. Adele's music sounds nothing like Gaga's which sounds different from Beyoncé's and from Katy Perry's, Taylor Swift's, and Charli XCX. But all of these are classified as "pop".

5. I get all the other stuff you said about the operatic singing style, and that is correct. But Beyoncé does have versatility by being able to use chest, belt, mix and head which is something a lot of pop singers don't actually do (a lot of people only do chest and head, or chest and belt, very few play around with all four in the way Beyoncé and Gaga can).

6. You are absolutely disregarding her contributions, as a songwriter and as an author/artist. Calling her "just an interpreter" is not just insulting her creative abilities, it's also ignorant. She's capable of thinking, just like your other favourite artists/writers. She has a brain, a mind, thoughts, agency. She's not some puppet who has no idea what she's doing. You haven't produced a single shred of evidence to support your claim she doesn't write anything, meanwhile I have given you multiple examples in which collaborators have acknowledged her contributions. And then you have the audacity to call me deluded?  Please.

Edited 19 hours ago by salty like sodium

[HeavyCapiLover 3,539]

Just got my first major backlash for a post on ggd, thats so exciting omg 

[Gaga2645 2,224]

23 hours ago, 50 Ft Queenie said:

Yas Bey isnt musically educated  unless the song was v diff.. hey i would have also loved techo pop! 

Calling her uneducated is … motivated