Let's not forget that Hillary Clinton empowered & pushed Trump and sabotaged Sanders

[SpadesToStart 3,808]

This is a gross overestimation of Clinton and the DNC’s power. They didn’t sink Bernie and they didn’t elevate Trump. The voters did both of those things. 
 

People love to look back on Bernie’s run with such rose-colored glasses. (And I say that as a progressive.)

[StarstruckIllusion 53,563]

Wbk

She sucks so much

She actually deserved to lose bc she’s evil, unlike Kamala who was just a bit clownish in her and her campaign’s choices 

[LukiiGleek 212]

Hillary also just was not a great politician. Super corrupt. lol 
 

[Foxyy 345]

This is such a garbage take lol.

The left spends so much time trying to tear down people they effectively agree with most of the time while flailing when it comes to actually fighting against the people that need to be fought against.

Hillary Clinton did not create Donald Trump. Trump appealed to the paranoid and angry collective of Americans who have been misinformed and felt abandoned by their leaders.

Hillary Clinton did not "sabotage" Bernie Sanders. He's too far left. He can't even survive a Democratic primary. He would never win on a national level. That's why he spends his time safely ranting from his senate seat in Vermont where he's popular and exists within a political vacuum.

AOC said as much herself when she expressed her own ability to criticize the Democrats and speak freely. She acknowledges the only reason she can do that is because her district is beyond safe for her.

But she also gets on board when it comes to getting things done. She was hugely influential when it came to pushing Biden to the left because she knew when to leverage her power and when to capitulate to the party that gives her relevance. Meanwhile, while Kamala was trying to rally the moderates and sensible voters, Bernie was making videos about Gaza to reach voters that have long since been deemed unreachable and unreasonable. All that did was put that conflict right back into their minds.

The reason Donald Trump was reelected is because people are hurting economically. They see high prices and think "things were better for me when Trump was president". So they reelected him. It's not rocket science, it's not because they're all bigots, it's a problem incumbent parties have been facing around the world and hopefully they'll learn that was a poor decision in time and make a better choice in 2026 and 2028.

Maybe if the left spent more time organizing and mobilizing rather than virtue signalling and performative online activism things would have gone differently.

You can't be a part of the "Genocide Joe" group AND complain about Trump. YOU did this.

2 hours ago, AyeshaErotica said:

Anyway, Bernie Sanders now has won in Vermont, while loser evil Hillary has no state, in the end there is justice

Sanders has won a fourth time because people appreciate him and value his visions and he does not fool people.

And this is the problem lol. This is why Kamala's messaging skewed to the right. It was out of necessity. Leftists are not serious people and they are not reliable voters. They would rather lose and keep their egos intact.

"Justice"

A 7-2 conservative SCOTUS is basically confirmed for your generation, backwards ideals will reign for the rest of our lives, Republicans have taken both houses of congress and the presidency but your guy won in a state where anyone with a (D) or an (I) next to their name would win by default so it's all good right?

As long as a woman who would have been an incredible president is relegated to being a retired millionaire rather than a public servant because she beat your preferred candidate ten years ago?

You sound exactly like a MAGA voter. So full of vindictive feelings and for what? Bernie would have lost to Trump too. He would have lost to Trump in 2020. He would have lost to Trump in 2024. He is incapable of being a national candidate.

I apologize for the rant but I'm tired of seeing so many people I agree with policy wise act like such entitled idiots. It's costing people their lives and freedoms. At this point if you're not showing up in every election and bubbling the names with a (D) next to them then YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.

[Foxyy 345]

1 hour ago, faysalaaa said:

Then why are you electing a black woman to run for president if you know the country is sexist and racist?

If America is so sexist, why did Hilary win the popular vote?

If America is so racism, why did Kamala got more white votes than Biden? And why did Trump get more minority and women votes than Biden? 

Edit: Im not saying racism or sexism is not a problem in America, its a big problem, but its not why Kamala lost

People like to paint others as hateful when they don't understand them.

Kamala Harris' race and sex definitely hurt her with some voters but it didn't cost her the election.

The Democrats are the incumbent party at a time where incumbency is a huge weakness for politicians across the globe. Any Republican would have tap danced to election. Any Democrat would have been defeated. The fact that it was so close is a testament to how extraordinary of a candidate she was and how effective her campaign was.

Inflation hurt her and all Democrats across the country. That's why she lost.

I can only pray this isn't the end of her political career. I have so much admiration for her as a leader and she deserves to hold whatever office she decides to pursue next.

[PartySick 172,465]

I-

I disagree. That's all I'll say  I'm not incredibly thrilled with Bernie perpetuating this division on the center/left while everyone else is working to bolster our institutions before Trump gets control.

Even Mitch McConnell (the f*cker) is trying to get a "hard-on-Trump" senate majority leader before January.

Now is not the time for the self-titled socialist to be throwing others under the bus, especially when it comes to winning the presidency 'cause he's 0 for 2 afaik 

Let me hop back off this site for a bit, I can't do political discussions for a while. I'm too confused by the ignorance of America to make sense of anything.

[Othon 34,299]

Every single person in this thread pretending that changing the candidates would have accomplished nothing and that Sanders or a Sanders-style candidate would have lost are:

1. Blatantly wrong. Every single poll indicated that Sanders would've won in 2016 by a landslide if the Democratic party hadn't sabotaged his campaign, which they went on to do a second time in 2020. There's zero data to back up any argument otherwise; and are

2. The same exact people who have gotten every single thing wrong about US politics over the last two or three election cycles. The usual suspects are all in here making up excuses and repeating the same stale propaganda on behalf of the Democratic establishment that has now lost to a complete clown twice, and barely won in 2020 despite a disastrous economy and COVID. 

Stop ignoring reality, stop dismissing the left and the pain of working people or keep losing. You don't beat fascism with fascism light and you don't beat Republicans with imitation Republicans. Centrism has lost all credibility (and humanity, given that these people have been overseeing the mass murder of Palestinians for over a year now) and if you STILL won't admit that, you're a lost cause.

[Economy 52,842]

The problem is Rupublicans cater to their base.

 

Democrats on the other hand always try to play compromise, saying they support the average person while allowing big donor money to influence them at the same time. Corporate Democrats always play moderates to not "alienate" centrists but they end up alianating more middle class that see they arent getting much done in the end than anything.

 

Major role of money ruins politics in America. Here in Canada no individual can donate more than $1300 i believe was the cap. While the uper middle class still has disproportionate impact, at least it does not allow billionaires to buy political actors woth millions of dollars in carrot sticks.

 

A democracy isnt a true democracy if different social classes have so much disproportionate impact on politics and elections

[ALGAYDO 35,062]

Some facts were spilled, but so was some spoiled milk. However, you should know by now that a lot of democrats hate Leftists because a lot of democrats don’t want things to change for the better, they want things to go back to the way it was pre-Trump, where wealthy democrats controlled the country. Someone like Bernie will never become president because America is way too stupid to actually have someone who cares about  them in a position of power lmao 

[Economy 52,842]

On 11/11/2024 at 7:13 PM, faysalaaa said:

I did not deny racism and sexism, I said Kamala did not lose because Sexism and Racism, and I made my argument in my first comment to you.

I agree with this 100%

 

It could have cost her a few votes here and there but overall I think in a very small number to be of any consequence. Anyone racist and sexist enough to not vote for Kamala Harris just because shes a woman and not white probably was never going to vote Democrat anyway regardless of who is running

 

The democrats failed to energize and motivate voters enough with halfwash policies

 

Circumstances didnt help either. Post covid inflation hit ppl economically hard and ppl blame the party in power. Here in Canada Trudeau is taking on simmilar heat. Tho some criticism is fair, they can not be blamed for a lot of what happened after pandemic but the average person frankly is too unintelligent and poorly informed on how things work to even understand that

[faysalaaa 5,336]

1 hour ago, Economy said:

I agree with this 100%

 

It could have cost her a few votes here and thete but overall I think in a very small number to be of any consequence. Anyone racist and sexist enough to not vote for Kamala Harris just because shes a woman and not white probably was never going to vote Democrat anyway regardless of who is running

 

The democrats failed to energize and motivate voters enough with halfwash policies

 

Circumstances didnt help either. Post covid inflation hit ppl economically hard and ppl blame the party in power. Here in Canada Trudeau is taking on simmilar heat. Tho some criticism is fair, they can not be blamed for a lot of what happened after pandemic but the average person frankly is too unintelligent and poorly informed on how things work to even understand that

 

2 hours ago, Foxyy said:

People like to paint others as hateful when they don't understand them.

Kamala Harris' race and sex definitely hurt her with some voters but it didn't cost her the election.

The Democrats are the incumbent party at a time where incumbency is a huge weakness for politicians across the globe. Any Republican would have tap danced to election. Any Democrat would have been defeated. The fact that it was so close is a testament to how extraordinary of a candidate she was and how effective her campaign was.

Inflation hurt her and all Democrats across the country. That's why she lost.

I can only pray this isn't the end of her political career. I have so much admiration for her as a leader and she deserves to hold whatever office she decides to pursue next.

Yes and im not even trying to defend American voters, but if you want to win this fight, you need to understand why you failed, and why people are not voting for you. 

As for Kamala, I do think she did a really amazing job which was not expected, even though I dont like her as a polotician. 

[BUtterfield 8 41,817]

I didn’t have much of an opinion on Hillary until she bashed Bernie Sanders in her documentary 

Bitter old lady 

[nATAH 56,887]

i aint reading alla that

[ARTPOP 3,096]

People are forgetting that Biden’s campaign boost in 2020 was due to Bernie and the progressives support. The main reason Clinton lost is due to her and her husband’s corruption.

Kamala didn’t learn anything and tried to “work across the aisle” instead of embracing the progressives in her own party.

Trump didn’t get more popular votes than he did in 2020. Kamala got dramatically less popular votes than Biden in 2020 should tell you where the problem is.

[Foxyy 345]

45 minutes ago, ARTPOP said:

Kamala didn’t learn anything and tried to “work across the aisle” instead of embracing the progressives in her own party.

Because the progressives were too busy protesting her rallies and calling her a mass murderer.

Politicians go where the votes are and the left has proven to be an extremely unreliable, fickle and emotional group of purists.

Biden's win in 2020 was because he peeled off enough white working class voters in the Great Lake states and typically red states like Arizona and Georgia. Kamala's campaign was a bid to recapture the voters Biden lost which would have been impossible for anybody to pull off considering the hole Biden dumped her in.

The left has no power in this country because they would rather be powerless complainers than a real base of game changers.

Most of Trump's voters hate his guts but they still vote for what they think is right (even if they're wrong). The left could learn a thing or two.