Canada Agressively Reverses Immigration Plan... Population To Decline Next 2 Years

[Bronco 27,671]

The only issue with going after student visas in such a manner is that a lot of HE institutions balance their budgets on the back of rich foreign students. 

And its always been the case that in return those students essentially get a shortcut into the country. 

Suddenly disrupting that kind of economic relationship can cause sudden economic issues....

[Economy 53,090]

1 hour ago, weed said:

so they plan on over 1.1 million people leaving every year for the next 2 years?? or 0.2% of what figure?

No, 1.1M to 1.2M is how many were let in annually. Some became permanent residents already and are not leaving...

 

But basically they will let in a bit less permanent residents (395K instead of 500) but a much smaller number of temporary workers and students 

 

We accomolated a lot of temporary residents the last few years (a few million)... by letting in far fewer, more visas will expire than the number of new ones issued.

 

So there will be a temporary 2 year rollback effect where more will be leaving than coming in

 

After that growth should resume but at a slower pace

[Economy 53,090]

1 hour ago, Bronco said:

The only issue with going after student visas in such a manner is that a lot of HE institutions balance their budgets on the back of rich foreign students. 

And its always been the case that in return those students essentially get a shortcut into the country. 

Suddenly disrupting that kind of economic relationship can cause sudden economic issues....

Yeah, theres issues either way

 

But i think long term not adressing this will be even worse

[Economy 53,090]

1 hour ago, AyeshaErotica said:

All of Canada, well except for Atlantic Canada, has been geared towards greedy, never-ending population growth for decades, and a whole system has emerged that revolves around it. It would be truly sensational if the population were to truly decline, even if it were only two years. There are reunions of relatives, there are still refugees, there are still illegal border crossings and above all:

Ultimately, a law means nothing if it is not enforced. In Québec, a few years ago, the OQLF (Language Police) compiled a report on the percentage of companies/businesses that disregarded the Loi 101 law (companies must show French writing, greater than English). It was about a fifth. It somehow went down from 23% to 21% in five years, and the OQLF celebrated this as a success. Theoretically, if the law were followed, it should be close to 0%. At the time, there was a Liberal government that simply did not urge, or even demotivated, its public servants to comply. It takes institutions that are willing to enforce and respect such laws. Canada is not Hungary, not Japan. It doesn't have mass institutionalised state workers who are against mass migration and somehow migrants will continue to get through. I expect immigration to perhaps decrease, but still be a plus (and population increasing) and still above the average of the world.

I guess well see

 

We have accomulated so many temporary residents that to me a temorary decline as their visas are allowed to expire doesnt seem implausible to me

 

Dont forget temporary residents have been coming in in higher numbers than permanent residents in recent years. Theres a lot of potential ones to send back

[Bronco 27,671]

1 minute ago, Economy said:

Yeah, theres issues either way

 

But i think long term not adressing this will be even worse

Oh for sure.

I just worry that pushing for sudden changes like this without having a wider plan to support the aspects of the Canadian economy that rely on it is prone to disaster. 

Bit like the recent UK policies on similar visas which has put a lot of our top Universities on a direct course to bankruptcy within 2 years

[Economy 53,090]

2 hours ago, Bronco said:

Oh for sure.

I just worry that pushing for sudden changes like this without having a wider plan to support the aspects of the Canadian economy that rely on it is prone to disaster. 

Bit like the recent UK policies on similar visas which has put a lot of our top Universities on a direct course to bankruptcy within 2 years

Yeah will be interesting to see how this plays out

[Lucas 31,507]

This will be controversial but I feel like there should population control in the world  Well there is definitely some kind of stuff that we don't know about already happening but less births sound like a good option considering we are using our ressources way faster than the earth can produce them and there isn't enough food to feed all

[Ayesha Erotica 1,963]

4 hours ago, Economy said:

I guess well see

 

We have accomulated so many temporary residents that to me a temorary decline as their visas are allowed to expire doesnt seem implausible to me

 

Dont forget temporary residents have been coming in in higher numbers than permanent residents in recent years. Theres a lot of potential ones to send back

Temporary residents is just another word that the government uses with the actual meaning "future permanent residents". They will become permanent residents and de facto are already.

To your point:

Then their visa expires and they stay anyway, and then they receive their deportation notice and they stay anyway. And then what does Canada do? According to reports, the authorities are overburdened, overwhelmed, and deportees remain in Canada. The country to which they are to be deported can simply say "no" and refuse to accept them. The simplest way for a deportee to achieve that is to commit a crime before scheduled deportation because the accepting country doesn't want criminals. That way the person can stay forever in Canada.

"Although a deportation order has been issued against Deng, it has never been enforced by immigration authorities, and the same is true for a growing number of other such individuals.
Countries refuse to issue travel documents

A Global News investigation has found that the federal government is becoming increasingly ineffective in carrying out deportations on public safety grounds.

But a list obtained by Global News shows the main obstacle is that certain foreign governments won’t issue travel documents allowing deportees to return, effectively making them Canada’s problem.

The list identifies the worst offender as Jamaica, which is holding up 51 deportations of criminals because it won’t issue the required travel documents. Cuba is second-worst, followed by India and China."

 

https://globalnews.ca/news/4087292/canada-deporting-dangerous-criminals-ineffective-still-here/

 

Basically, anyone from Jamaica, India and Cuba can stay in Canada if they want because they are not being sent back. All they have to do is to disobey the "leave" notice. Indians could also come as tourists and forget to fly back and also remain forever in Canada. I think the immigration plan is unlikely to be successful.Let's not forget the migrants usually are in metropolitan big cities who are ruled by liberal politicians and they locally have no desire to deport them because they don't like the new policy. The metro cities politicians want them to become permanent resident and then citizens with voting rights , so that they can vote for them. I think this conflict of interest will make the population decrease less likely.

[Economy 53,090]

7 hours ago, AyeshaErotica said:

Temporary residents is just another word that the government uses with the actual meaning "future permanent residents". They will become permanent residents and de facto are already.

To your point:

Then their visa expires and they stay anyway, and then they receive their deportation notice and they stay anyway. And then what does Canada do? According to reports, the authorities are overburdened, overwhelmed, and deportees remain in Canada. The country to which they are to be deported can simply say "no" and refuse to accept them. The simplest way for a deportee to achieve that is to commit a crime before scheduled deportation because the accepting country doesn't want criminals. That way the person can stay forever in Canada.

"Although a deportation order has been issued against Deng, it has never been enforced by immigration authorities, and the same is true for a growing number of other such individuals.
Countries refuse to issue travel documents

A Global News investigation has found that the federal government is becoming increasingly ineffective in carrying out deportations on public safety grounds.

But a list obtained by Global News shows the main obstacle is that certain foreign governments won’t issue travel documents allowing deportees to return, effectively making them Canada’s problem.

The list identifies the worst offender as Jamaica, which is holding up 51 deportations of criminals because it won’t issue the required travel documents. Cuba is second-worst, followed by India and China."

 

https://globalnews.ca/news/4087292/canada-deporting-dangerous-criminals-ineffective-still-here/

 

Basically, anyone from Jamaica, India and Cuba can stay in Canada if they want because they are not being sent back. All they have to do is to disobey the "leave" notice. Indians could also come as tourists and forget to fly back and also remain forever in Canada. I think the immigration plan is unlikely to be successful.Let's forget the migrants usually are in metropolitan big cities who are ruled by liberal politicians and they locally have no desire to deport them because they don't like the new policy. The metro cities politicians want them to become permanent resident and then citizens with voting rights , so that they can vote for them. I think this conflict of interest will make the population decrease less likely.

How often is a country gonns refuse to take their own citizens back?

 

Were talking students here. Young ppl what every country wants. I dont see india not accepting them back

 

I just dont buy the notion that most will stay anyway. Some try to disobey and succeed but many do in fact go back

[Economy 53,090]

7 hours ago, Lucas said:

This will be controversial but I feel like there should population control in the world  Well there is definitely some kind of stuff that we don't know about already happening but less births sound like a good option considering we are using our ressources way faster than the earth can produce them and there isn't enough food to feed all

1. We produce enough food for everyone, but so much of it is wasted and not well distributed

 

2. The wealthiest 1 to 2 billion individuals consume about as much as the remaining 5-6 billion and those are countries where birth rates are already low. Meanwhile Africa the only continent still growing fast hardly has any per capita consumption

 

In short I never bought the idea that total population is the problem. Its the consumerist system that we have.

 

With lower births and even some declining population globally i guarantee u the richest Nations will manage to get enough immigration to keep their population at least somewhat stable and global consumption wont really drop much tbh

[Ayesha Erotica 1,963]

9 hours ago, Economy said:

How often is a country gonns refuse to take their own citizens back?

 

Were talking students here. Young ppl what every country wants. I dont see india not accepting them back

 

I just dont buy the notion that most will stay anyway. Some try to disobey and succeed but many do in fact go back

I don't know how often they are being refused

I've been looking for some statistics how many % of deportations are (un)successful and how many people stay anyway. This is what I found:

 

"There are an estimated 300,000 to 600,000 people living in Canada without valid documents. Many have been working here for decades but risk deportation because they lack formal status. Immigration Minister Marc Miller is planning to create a path to citizenship for people who have lived and worked in Canada illegally for years, many of whom have children."

 

"The figures show that 14,609 people were sent letters informing them they are facing deportation between 2016 and May last year.

But 9,317 of those were still living in Canada last year, including 2,188 people sent deportation letters in 2016 and 2017.

Conservative immigration critic Tom Kmiec, who received the figures in an answer to a parliamentary question he asked last May, said they suggest a lack of enforcement. He said they are a symptom of a “broken immigration system” and are contributing to an erosion in public confidence.

The figures show that 3,087 people – fewer than a quarter of people sent deportation letters since 2016 – have been removed from Canada."

source: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-most-immigrants-with-deportation-letters-are-still-in-canada-cbsa/

So, about 63,7% of people who got a deportation letter , stay anyway.

Though at the same time the source says, "less than 25%" of deportation are enforced. So I don't know if 75%+ stay or 63,7%.

It seems that thwo-thirds or three-quarter of people stay anyway and disobey and Canada is powerless and does nothing to remove them. I can't imagina Toronto or the likes to sent them back [Edit: in sufficiently high numbers so that population declines] because Toronto & co want them to get citizenship so that they vote for the liberal part< that gifted them citizenship. The deporation system has been failing for at least 12 years by now. It would be sensational if the immigration plan succeeds. About 1% of the population is "illegally" there and nothing is done , and I think nothing will be done. The metro cities have different interests than the country as a whole and the metro cities will sabotage the plan, they already do.

The topic should be rather called "Canada intends to reverse immigration. Population might decline" rather than "reverses" and "to decline" because at the moment it does not

 

 

[Ayesha Erotica 1,963]

Ultimately, politicians also depend on donations from global corporations to win election campaigns. These large corporations also control the media and can give politicians a damaging or positive reputation.

We have seen how Biden was bullied out of office by the media and chased out of office by global corporations.  For years Biden had reasonably acceptable mixed to positive coverage and in just one week the media started a mudslinging campaign against him and Biden was ousted.

The big companies in Canada want to be able to import labour at any time and they want cheap labour. They don't want long application processes and they don't want to pay high wages. I think the global corporations will start a bully campaign against the politicians who are against continued immigration in the long-term and then they will either change their minds or be ousted like Biden. In Canada, as in America, capitalism is ultimately the dominant power.

[Ayesha Erotica 1,963]

@Economy   To achieve this ambitious goal, everyone would have to pull together. In fact, the provinces are working against each other and sabotaging each other, and the opposing parties are also working against each other. And then the big companies step in, who want cheap labour and adapt the laws accordingly. Canada is very fragmented. It's getting fuller and fuller and people are on their own and have to see how they get by. In the deportation authorities, the old governments mainly appointed employees who were instructed to "work slowly", "ignore things" and "don't enforce" and that worked because on the one hand the employees were convinced of this themselves, but on the other hand they also had less work and more free time by "looking away". They would have to sack them all and hire new ones, but I don't think that will happen. In the public sector, they "have to stay somehow" and because they get paid anyway, they have few reasons to change. As a result, things will stay mostly the same at local level, people will stay and more will come in. There already are so many migrants, who tell stories of how they came in to their relatives and friends in their home countries and they wanna follow. Canada is a magnet. Well, not a magnet than can indefinitely produce energy but indefinitely attract new people. Once you activate the magnet, the law of physics do not allow for a deactivation. I rather expect ongoing population records.

 

+ considering the wars outside the world and problems in the other countries, more and more people will have a reason to come to Canada . Canada is a victim of its own popularity

[Economy 53,090]

7 hours ago, AyeshaErotica said:

Ultimately, politicians also depend on donations from global corporations to win election campaigns. These large corporations also control the media and can give politicians a damaging or positive reputation.

We have seen how Biden was bullied out of office by the media and chased out of office by global corporations.  For years Biden had reasonably acceptable mixed to positive coverage and in just one week the media started a mudslinging campaign against him and Biden was ousted.

The big companies in Canada want to be able to import labour at any time and they want cheap labour. They don't want long application processes and they don't want to pay high wages. I think the global corporations will start a bully campaign against the politicians who are against continued immigration in the long-term and then they will either change their minds or be ousted like Biden. In Canada, as in America, capitalism is ultimately the dominant power.

I dont think we can compare Canada to US tho when it comes to the level of influence money has on politics

 

Canadas campaign rules do not allow nearly as much money to be received from individuals and institutions as they allow in the US. As such, the impact of that is much more muted.

[Economy 53,090]

2 hours ago, AyeshaErotica said:

@Economy   To achieve this ambitious goal, everyone would have to pull together. In fact, the provinces are working against each other and sabotaging each other, and the opposing parties are also working against each other. And then the big companies step in, who want cheap labour and adapt the laws accordingly. Canada is very fragmented. It's getting fuller and fuller and people are on their own and have to see how they get by. In the deportation authorities, the old governments mainly appointed employees who were instructed to "work slowly", "ignore things" and "don't enforce" and that worked because on the one hand the employees were convinced of this themselves, but on the other hand they also had less work and more free time by "looking away". They would have to sack them all and hire new ones, but I don't think that will happen. In the public sector, they "have to stay somehow" and because they get paid anyway, they have few reasons to change. As a result, things will stay mostly the same at local level, people will stay and more will come in. There already are so many migrants, who tell stories of how they came in to their relatives and friends in their home countries and they wanna follow. Canada is a magnet. Well, not a magnet than can indefinitely produce energy but indefinitely attract new people. Once you activate the magnet, the law of physics do not allow for a deactivation. I rather expect ongoing population records.

 

+ considering the wars outside the world and problems in the other countries, more and more people will have a reason to come to Canada . Canada is a victim of its own popularity

Even if ur right about all of this, and some still come or stay illegally... these changes are bound to slow population growth very consoderably at least. I dont see us breaking population growth records anymore with this in place

 

Lets also not forget that in the last few years alone birtg rates plummeted further. Now its at 1.2 births per woman, were now among the worlds lowest along with Southern Europe with only South Korea, Japan, China and a couple other Asian Countries being significantly worse

 

So we do need some immigration going forward just to stay flat. Its not like each 1 new immigrant is going to equal 1 population growth cuz were about to enter natural population decline as the baby boomers start to enter dying age