Tajikistan, A Muslim Country, Bans Hijab & Public Eid Celebrations

[misha4ever 2,077]

1 hour ago, Aussie said:

So odd! For a country which is supposed to be 96.4% Muslim according to wiki

I mean that was Iran, Afghanistan, etc., before the religious extremists went nuts.

[faysalaaa 5,336]

1 minute ago, Edonis said:

I'm pretty sure @river said right in his first sentence that you should let women do what they want. If a Muslim woman believes they will have a closer relationship to God by wearing a head covering, then they should be allowed to do it, just as other Muslim women should not have to be forced or shamed to wear one. 

 

Yes and I agree with him on that part of his comment, that women should do whatever they want, and im a secular Muslim. The only disagreement we have is them saying women born into Islam and wears a hijab does not have a choice. 

[Edonis 28,974]

Also, not to get off-topic too much, but the way the Lebanese government is set up has nothing to do with this situation. The whole 18+ sects have to be represented in the Lebanese government was thanks to a post-civil war resolution that was backed by the US and France of all countries lol. Lebanon is LONG overdue to have a true sectarian government, but there's so much corruption over there that I doubt it will happen anytime soon.

As @palma said, it's an absolute shame the way Lebanon's government has played out because Lebanon had (and, maybe I'm being optimistic as a Lebanese American myself, has) the potential to be something more than it is now in the Middle East. The communities, Christian, Muslim, and everything in between, have always been historically more progressive than most of the Levant on multiple issues political, economic, social, and religious issues. Maybe things will change some day, but that will take a lot to happen. 

Promise that's as far off-topic as I'll get lol. 

[misha4ever 2,077]

17 minutes ago, faysalaaa said:

So you dont believe adults can make choices? we are all effected by our environment, but at the end of the day, we all have the choice.

If you think women born into a religious country and culture are not capable of choice, then you have to apply this same logic to all women born into social norms and expectations, which means none of us have a choice.

Girls and women born in any religion have a set of rules exclusively set for them, and depending on how extreme the family, community, and/or country is about that religion, the less freedom and choice they have and you know this.

[Aren 965]

1 hour ago, Aussie said:

So odd! For a country which is supposed to be 96.4% Muslim according to wiki

Only on paper. The majority of Tajikistan’s population are Persians. Most Persians in Iran under sharia law are irreligious themselves, let alone in a secular country like Tajikistan.

[faysalaaa 5,336]

Just now, misha4ever said:

Girls and women born in any religion have a set of rules exclusively set for them, and depending on how extreme the family, community, and/or country is about that religion, the less freedom and choice they have and you know this.

Freedom and choice are two different things. Yes laws can stop your freedom, but if there was laws to protect your freedom, we have to treat you as an adult thats capable of making a choice. Looking at Muslim women as brainwashed women who have no choice is weird.

[faysalaaa 5,336]

10 minutes ago, misha4ever said:

I'm shocked and so happy. I think it should be a choice, but also, religions don't have options for girls and women so...

So you dont think it should be a choice. Why do you want the credit of saying you want it to be a choice, but then say you dont want it to be a choice? lol

[Aren 965]

12 minutes ago, Edonis said:

Also, not to get off-topic too much, but the way the Lebanese government is set up has nothing to do with this situation. The whole 18+ sects have to be represented in the Lebanese government was thanks to a post-civil war resolution that was backed by the US and France of all countries lol. Lebanon is LONG overdue to have a true sectarian government, but there's so much corruption over there that I doubt it will happen anytime soon.

As @palma said, it's an absolute shame the way Lebanon's government has played out because Lebanon had (and, maybe I'm being optimistic as a Lebanese American myself, has) the potential to be something more than it is now in the Middle East. The communities, Christian, Muslim, and everything in between, have always been historically more progressive than most of the Levant on multiple issues political, economic, social, and religious issues. Maybe things will change some day, but that will take a lot to happen. 

Promise that's as far off-topic as I'll get lol. 

Lebanon was ruined by Islamic extremists. It was supposed to be the only Christian country in the Middle East and a safe haven for persecuted minorities. When Christians ruled Lebanon, it was known as the Paris of the Middle East. Since Hezbollah took over, the country has become one of the poorest in the region.

[Edonis 28,974]

4 minutes ago, Aren said:

Lebanon was ruined by Islamic extremists. It was supposed to be the only Christian country in the Middle East and a safe haven for persecuted minorities. When Christians ruled Lebanon, it was known as the Paris of the Middle East. Since Hezbollah took over, the country has become one of the poorest in the region.

Objectively speaking, Lebanon was never a "Christian country". My ancestors can tell you that, anyone who isn't a Maronite Christian can tell you that lol. But it's interesting to see Phalange rhetoric alive and well on GGD in 2024! 

[Aren 965]

1 minute ago, Edonis said:

Objectively speaking, Lebanon was never a "Christian country". My ancestors can tell you that, anyone who isn't a Maronite Christian can tell you that lol. But it's interesting to see Phalange rhetoric alive and well on GGD in 2024! 

I didn’t say everyone in the country was Christian, I said modern Lebanon was founded by Christians (and the Druze to some extent) with the help of the French to be a safe haven for persecuted religious minorities. This is a fact.

 

And for the few decades that Christians ruled it, it was a very modern country. Then the religious civil war ruined everything and the terrorist group Hezbollah took over. The rest is history.

 

[palma 8,909]

30 minutes ago, Aren said:

Lebanon was ruined by Islamic extremists. It was supposed to be the only Christian country in the Middle East and a safe haven for persecuted minorities. When Christians ruled Lebanon, it was known as the Paris of the Middle East. Since Hezbollah took over, the country has become one of the poorest in the region.

And when the Phoenicians Lebanon it was a superpower wym  Lebanon was destroyed by the civil war, foreign powers pitting local societies against one another, colonialism, a number of refugees way higher than they could handle, two very aggressive and interventionist neighbors, corrupt politicians, wealth inequality, dirty money, etc. etc. Saying that as soon as Christians ended their "rule" (which is not the case as Christian parties have participated in the government) the country went back to the stone age is ignoring it's past and current issues and presents the solution that if they could magically get rid of the Muslims everything would be ok and that's a very dangerous discourse. Anyway Lebanon is not even the topic here idk why we're focusing on that 

[27monster27 15,859]

I agree with other members in that this shouldn't be a ban, but it also shouldn't be a requirement either.

I'm not against religion, but I am against organized religion.* If people want to be religious then let them, but don't force it on people, especially through laws.

Spoiler

*I understand the definition of "organized religion" can get blurry, but basically I view it as religion that is forced on people through mandated requirements.

 

[PartySick 172,532]

Can't we just abolish religion as a whole and call it done?

[Aren 965]

1 minute ago, 27monster27 said:

I agree with other members in that this shouldn't be a ban, but it also shouldn't be a requirement either.

I'm not against religion, but I am against organized religion.* If people want to be religious then let them, but don't force it on people, especially through laws.

  Hide contents

*I understand the definition of "organized religion" can get blurry, but basically I view it as religion that is forced on people through mandated requirements.

 

The majority of people in Tajikistan support the ban though, since they feel hijab is incompatible with Tajik/Iranian culture.

Tajiks are actually Persians, and they are very much aware how their counterparts in Iran live. Unfortunately decades of a repressive theocratic regime made Persians (whether in Iran or other Iranian countries like Tajikistan) very much anti-Islam.

[27monster27 15,859]

4 minutes ago, Aren said:

The majority of people in Tajikistan support the ban though, since they feel hijab is incompatible with Tajik/Iranian culture.

Tajiks are actually Persians, and they are very much aware how their counterparts in Iran live. Unfortunately decades of a repressive theocratic regime made Persians (whether in Iran or other Iranian countries like Tajikistan) very much anti-Islam.

I agree with what you are saying, and considering how Persians have been treated by some Arab authorities I agree with the it not being required.

I still just think that a ban may be too much. I feel like that comes off as hypocritical just from my view, but I do see why they are doing it now that you explained that the Tajik people are also Persian.