McCarthy REMOVED as U.S. House Speaker

[HIM820 1,874]

4 minutes ago, Dennis said:

This will likely backfire on democrats. The new speaker is probably gonna be more MAGA, harsher on social spending, immigration and anti-Ukraine. Jim Jordan already announced his candidacy and he'll probably win.

McCarthy was malleable, able to work with Biden/democrats. The next speaker will probably not be.

Honestly, I'm sick and tired of democrats empowering/elevating MAGA republicans just so that they can watch the chaos from the sidelines. They had no business supporting a motion put forth by one of the most unhinged members of Congress. What they've done now, is that turned Matt Gaetz into a kingmaker. You win short term political victory, but long term it's not worth it. We won't be laughing anymore in 2024, if republicans win all branches of goverment and the likes of Matt Gaetz control the party.

 

I'm sick and tired of misguided opinions like this. "Democrats empowering/elevating MAGA republicans" - wtf? The media has made it so the GOP can do no wrong. Their horrible decisions and failures are just backed into the framework of DC, like its a given. Then it's "Look at how the Democrats aren't fixing this!" McCarthy made a deal with the most extreme parts of his party to secure his power, standing with Trump like the fool he is. He is malleable to everyone because he has no backbone. He lied and wasn't even willing to ask Dems for help with this because he couldn't. He would lose even more support from his own party, because of the deal HE MADE. A loser before he even got the gavel. To act like this was the Democrats supporting Gaetz and the extreme MAGA faction is not only laughable, but just stupid. They were not willing to support McCarthy because he's a snake that doesn't even have control. Anyone would want him out of that position as soon as possible. 

It's also funny because Pelosi was in a similar position just a few years ago, and I don't recall any Republicans helping out with that. She knew how to manage having a party with older moderates and newly elected progressives all without making a deal that makes her the biggest loser in the room. 

 

[Dennis 8,391]

5 minutes ago, HIM820 said:

 

I'm sick and tired of misguided opinions like this. "Democrats empowering/elevating MAGA republicans" - wtf?

 

"Misguided"? Lol

Maybe you should do a little more research. Yes democrats are actively helping MAGA republicans for political reasons:

"The Democrats are purposely boosting far-right Republicans. This will backfire"
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/oct/03/the-democrats-are-purposely-boosting-far-right-republicans-this-will-backfire

"The Washington Post found that Democrats had spent close to $20m in eight states on ads meant to elevate the profile of far-right candidates and election deniers running for governorships and for Congress."

Democrats think that by elevating far-right candidates, they can win over centrists/moderates, except that this strategy does not always work. And if the republican party completes transformation to far-right/MAGA, we may never have elections again one day.

[HIM820 1,874]

10 minutes ago, Dennis said:

"Misguided"? Lol

Maybe you should do a little more research. Yes democrats are actively helping MAGA republicans for political reasons:

"The Democrats are purposely boosting far-right Republicans. This will backfire"
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/oct/03/the-democrats-are-purposely-boosting-far-right-republicans-this-will-backfire

"The Washington Post found that Democrats had spent close to $20m in eight states on ads meant to elevate the profile of far-right candidates and election deniers running for governorships and for Congress."

Democrats think that by elevating far-right candidates, they can win over centrists/moderates, except that this strategy does not always work. And if the republican party completes transformation to far-right/MAGA, we may never have elections again one day.

Yea I think we have 2 different ways of thinking about the current political landscape and who to blame, so I guess agree to disagree. 
 

I do understand where you’re coming from with who they employ to run and strategize campaigns. I’ll never agree with certain strategies used during elections. But equating a tactic used to win with not supporting McCarthy is the misguided part of your opinion. Supporting the opposing parties leadership is unheard of, especially when that leader is unwilling to make concessions to secure that help. I think characterizing the Democrats not voting for McCarthy as “supporting MAGA” is wrong. The idea that they did so (collectively mind you) out of pure entertainment or revenge and not based off of legislation and policy is not well thought out. They would have had to vote for him based on the assumption that he is lying to parts of the GOP and made good faith agreements with the WH and Democrats. That would be an insane gamble, particularly because he has been so hypocritical to the press vs privately vs to his own party. Nobody like that should be in a position of power. In the end, if they did vote for him and he ended up lying it would be the Democrats fault yet again. Do you see the trend here? 

[Dennis 8,391]

2 hours ago, HIM820 said:

Yea I think we have 2 different ways of thinking about the current political landscape and who to blame, so I guess agree to disagree. 
 

I do understand where you’re coming from with who they employ to run and strategize campaigns. I’ll never agree with certain strategies used during elections. But equating a tactic used to win with not supporting McCarthy is the misguided part of your opinion. Supporting the opposing parties leadership is unheard of, especially when that leader is unwilling to make concessions to secure that help. I think characterizing the Democrats not voting for McCarthy as “supporting MAGA” is wrong. The idea that they did so (collectively mind you) out of pure entertainment or revenge and not based off of legislation and policy is not well thought out. They would have had to vote for him based on the assumption that he is lying to parts of the GOP and made good faith agreements with the WH and Democrats. That would be an insane gamble, particularly because he has been so hypocritical to the press vs privately vs to his own party. Nobody like that should be in a position of power. In the end, if they did vote for him and he ended up lying it would be the Democrats fault yet again. Do you see the trend here? 

Didn't take long for what I talked about earlier to materialize. There goes the first casualty; Ukraine aid. In contrast, McCarthy before he was ousted he said he'd bring up a seperate bill for Ukraine aid.

This is just the start, wait until they block many other appropriation bills. Democrats played with fire when they supported Gaetz' motion, and they'll get burned by it. They should've waited until they passed the 2024 budget before playing these games. If you want to oust McCarthy, do it on your own terms. But don't help MAGA republicans.
 

 

[Ladle Ghoulash 55,388]

3 hours ago, Dennis said:

"Misguided"? Lol

Maybe you should do a little more research. Yes democrats are actively helping MAGA republicans for political reasons:

"The Democrats are purposely boosting far-right Republicans. This will backfire"
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/oct/03/the-democrats-are-purposely-boosting-far-right-republicans-this-will-backfire

"The Washington Post found that Democrats had spent close to $20m in eight states on ads meant to elevate the profile of far-right candidates and election deniers running for governorships and for Congress."

Democrats think that by elevating far-right candidates, they can win over centrists/moderates, except that this strategy does not always work. And if the republican party completes transformation to far-right/MAGA, we may never have elections again one day.

Spoiler: the Dems won the elections in question 

[FATCAT 60,984]

Just a reminder that if Democrats had propped up McCarthy with votes, he would have been an even weaker speaker and would most likely have been asked to step down by the rest of the caucus. Democrats did the only reasonable thing they could do: stay out of it.

[Dennis 8,391]

9 minutes ago, FATCAT said:

Just a reminder that if Democrats had propped up McCarthy with votes, he would have been an even weaker speaker and would most likely have been asked to step down by the rest of the caucus. Democrats did the only reasonable thing they could do: stay out of it.

It would've turned McCarthy into a democratic asset basically, because he'd be dependent on their support. And dems could've used him to pass a budget for 2024. I don't think a majority of his caucus would ask him to step down. He def has the support of a majority. Now 20-30 could've asked him to step down, but that wouldn't be enough to bring him down.

[Dennis 8,391]

13 minutes ago, deactivated001 said:

Spoiler: the Dems won the elections in question 

Dems did not win the House. They only kept the Senate. And no, I'm not a fan of boosting fascists and closeted neo-nazis in the hope that they'd be easier to beat. What happens if they win? If they become governor and lives of millions of people are affected, can we say we're any better if we contributed to their success? 

[FATCAT 60,984]

8 minutes ago, Dennis said:

It would've turned McCarthy into a democratic asset basically, because he'd be dependent on their support. And dems could've used him to pass a budget for 2024. I don't think a majority of his caucus would ask him to step down. He def has the support of a majority. Now 20-30 could've asked him to step down, but that wouldn't be enough to bring him down.

If democrats would have saved him, 90-100 house republicans would suddenly be screaming "he's their guy" and would have wanted him out. Republicans are all about optics, its why McCarthy didn't reach out in the first place. Dems saving him was just as much a defeat as being ousted, he was losing the speakership no matter what.

[Ladle Ghoulash 55,388]

5 minutes ago, Dennis said:

Dems did not win the House. They only kept the Senate. And no, I'm not a fan of boosting fascists and closeted neo-nazis in the hope that they'd be easier to beat. What happens if they win? If they become governor and lives of millions of people are affected, can we say we're any better if we contributed to their success? 

You specifically quoted a passage that referred to them spending to elevate election deniers in gubernatorial and SoS races in swing states, which are the elections that they won using this strategy. I agree that the strategy is questionable in general, but in the instance you cited, it actually seems to have worked. 

[Dennis 8,391]

20 minutes ago, FATCAT said:

If democrats would have saved him, 90-100 house republicans would suddenly be screaming "he's their guy" and would have wanted him out. Republicans are all about optics, its why McCarthy didn't reach out in the first place. Dems saving him was just as much a defeat as being ousted, he was losing the speakership no matter what.

The issue is not about ousting McCarthy, the issue is about timing. We should've passed a budget first. 40 days till another potential shutdown. 60% of people live paycheck to paycheck. Millions of federal workers could go without pay. The last thing we neec is to put it in the hands of MAGA republicans to sort this mess, because they won't. We can cheer from the sidelines as the House burns, but it's average americans who'll pay the pirce.

I'd say, pass a budget, secure aid for Ukraine so that the 70B$ invested there don't go to waste, and then if you want McCarthy fired let it be.

[FATCAT 60,984]

7 minutes ago, Dennis said:

The issue is not about ousting McCarthy, the issue is about timing. We should've passed a budget first. 40 days till another potential shutdown. 60% of people live paycheck to paycheck. Millions of federal workers could go without pay. The last thing we neec is to put it in the hands of MAGA republicans to sort this mess, because they won't. We can cheer from the sidelines as the House burns, but it's average americans who'll pay the pirce.

I'd say, pass a budget, secure aid for Ukraine so that the 70B$ invested there don't go to waste, and then if you want McCarthy fired let it be.

Yea I agree that those things are a priority but Republicans have the majority, and they decided what gets put on the floor. Dems bought them 40 days to get their **** together, but Dems still can't force their hand. Republicans still have to be the ones to govern, the minority can't put their own bills up for a vote.

[HIM820 1,874]

1 hour ago, Dennis said:

Didn't take long for what I talked about earlier to materialize. There goes the first casualty; Ukraine aid. In contrast, McCarthy before he was ousted he said he'd bring up a seperate bill for Ukraine aid.

This is just the start, wait until they block many other appropriation bills. Democrats played with fire when they supported Gaetz' motion, and they'll get burned by it. They should've waited until they passed the 2024 budget before playing these games. If you want to oust McCarthy, do it on your own terms. But don't help MAGA republicans.
 

 

 
 

You are truly a fool if you believe McCarthy would have done anything. He’s a liar, and his balls are held by several others in his party. That’s the point. He agreed to terms publicly that basically compromise his leadership and opinions, making him beholden to extremists. He was and is useless. I don’t think you understand this. The only way the democrats would have voted for him is if he would have reached a deal on several issues and made concessions. Whatever would have been in that deal to save him would have then angered more GOP than the handful that voted against him, most likely resulting in him stepping down. We still end up back here and I bet the democrats would be being blamed yet again. McCarthy made the initial agreement to claim his speakership so powerless that nobody could save him. It’s shocking how politically unsavvy it was considering how long he’s been doing this. He made his bed and now he has to lie in it. 

[HIM820 1,874]

1 hour ago, Dennis said:

Didn't take long for what I talked about earlier to materialize. There goes the first casualty; Ukraine aid. In contrast, McCarthy before he was ousted he said he'd bring up a seperate bill for Ukraine aid.

This is just the start, wait until they block many other appropriation bills. Democrats played with fire when they supported Gaetz' motion, and they'll get burned by it. They should've waited until they passed the 2024 budget before playing these games. If you want to oust McCarthy, do it on your own terms. But don't help MAGA republicans.
 

 

btw are you blaming McCarthy for this at all? He backed out on the initial deal straight heading us to a shutdown. He does bring a resolution to the floor, where more democrats than his own party vote to avoid a shutdown ONLY to then publicly blame the democrats for his situation- where they just voted for his resolution… Never approaches them to talk or make deals and on top of all that wonderful stuff- JAN 6TH. Saying how horrible it was only to then give the green light to his party to overturn Biden’s win. I think that alone proves he’s a liar POS. 

[SharkmanthaC 115,336]

There is a rumor they want Trump to replace him.