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Explosions hit 600 kms deep into Russia


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I don't think it's fuel for Putin. Popular opinion didn't seem to matter at all. Putin carried out mobilization successfully. And whether russians approve or not of this is becoming increasingly irrel

Don't think so. Every nation has a right to defend itself. As long as Ukraine strikes legitimate military targets while trying to avoid civilian casualties, they're fine. In this case they attacked bo

Russa must capitulate and accept "defeat" soon. Ukraine also has to be pragmatic and leave something for Russia to save face otherwise they will continue on this war. I think the most logical compromise would be Ukraine officially accepting and ceding Crimea to Russia as well as permitting water resources to pass smoothly to Crimea. This way Russia gets something for it to warrant a pull back out of the other Ukrainian territories and Ukraine gets to keep all its territory including Donetsk and Luhansk. That said, I can understand how doing that still would feel like a defeat for the Ukrainians as now they are aiming to even snatch up Crimea eventually but doing that will make Russia act like a cornered animal and we all know how horrible things can get when someone feels like there is no way out. Let's hope the both sides can think pragmatically about this and preferably soon. Hard winter months are ahead...more lives will be lost if this persists. Things will be even more devastating this winter for both nations. Russia needs to understand it is time to NEGOTIATE. 

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34 minutes ago, Eido said:

Ukraine gonna be left alone real quick 

Don't think so. Every nation has a right to defend itself. As long as Ukraine strikes legitimate military targets while trying to avoid civilian casualties, they're fine. In this case they attacked bombers that were preparing to fly and launch air strikes on ukrainian cities. So no one has the right to complain, and especially not people who live thousands of miles away from the targets of these bombers.

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12 minutes ago, dit said:

Russa must capitulate and accept "defeat" soon. Ukraine also has to be pragmatic and leave something for Russia to save face otherwise they will continue on this war. I think the most logical compromise would be Ukraine officially accepting and ceding Crimea to Russia as well as permitting water resources to pass smoothly to Crimea. This way Russia gets something for it to warrant a pull back out of the other Ukrainian territories and Ukraine gets to keep all its territory including Donetsk and Luhansk. That said, I can understand how doing that still would feel like a defeat for the Ukrainians as now they are aiming to even snatch up Crimea eventually but doing that will make Russia act like a cornered animal and we all know how horrible things can get when someone feels like there is no way out. Let's hope the both sides can think pragmatically about this and preferably soon. Hard winter months are ahead...more lives will be lost if this persists. Things will be even more devastating this winter for both nations. Russia needs to understand it is time to NEGOTIATE. 

Russia is unlikely to abandon claims to the Donbas. They rejected a similar deal in March which also included Ukraine's neutrality (not joining NATO or hosting foreign military installations).

Unfortunately the most likely outcome now, is a frozen conflict. Ukraine will probably push out Russia for as much as they can, and then negotiate a ceasefire with neither side fully conceding anything.

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1 minute ago, Dennis said:

Russia is unlikely to abandon claims to the Donbas. They rejected a similar deal in March which also included Ukraine's neutrality (not joining NATO or hosting foreign military installations).

Unfortunately the most likely outcome now, is a frozen conflict. Ukraine will probably push out Russia for as much as they can, and then negotiate a ceasefire with neither side fully conceding anything.

Sadly you are likely right tbh. It's so frustrating that Russia will choose the long gruesome route instead of negotiating something right now. So many more lives will be lost on both sides and Ukraine's infrastructure will continue to be destroyed. ugh

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FfFfFfFF
47 minutes ago, Eido said:

Ukraine gonna be left alone real quick 

99% certain this happened with US/NATO approval. We are just the peasants watching the political elites escalate more each day and we can do nothing about it.

We are in 2022 and Ukraine is striking 600kms into Russia with Western weapons, this would have been unthinkable in 2021. Imagine at what stage we will be in 2023 or 2024.

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6 minutes ago, FfFfFfFF said:

99% certain this happened with US/NATO approval. We are just the peasants watching the political elites escalate more each day and we can do nothing about it.

We are in 2022 and Ukraine is striking 600kms into Russia with Western weapons, this would have been unthinkable in 2021. Imagine at what stage we will be in 2023 or 2024.

I literally shivered thinking about it...this is escalating on levels no one thought imaginable. I'm really worried for these next two years ahead...

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7 minutes ago, FfFfFfFF said:

We are in 2022 and Ukraine is striking 600kms into Russia with Western weapons, this would have been unthinkable in 2021. Imagine at what stage we will be in 2023 or 2024.

This is not factual. There's no evidence Ukraine used western weapons. Also FYI they've been developing their own drones for quite sometime now.
 

And if they used their own weapons, we have no right to tell people to not defend themselves. So humble yourself a little.

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7 hours ago, Dennis said:

This is not factual. There's no evidence Ukraine used western weapons. Also FYI they've been developing their own drones for quite sometime now.
 

And if they used their own weapons, we have no right to tell people to not defend themselves. So humble yourself a little.

We have no evidence =/= this is not true. Since when has Ukraine the technology to strike hundreds of kms when it has repetedly and repetedly asked for Western weapons? Regardless, even if it was an Ukrainian made weapon, this happened with US support.

We can't tell Ukraine what to do, but we have the right to pull our support when things go off rails. You can be idealistic and reckless, or you can be grounded and objective. It's a matter of time until Ukraine will strike Moscow and Russia will then feel emboldened to strike NATO supply line. Don't believe it? Just watch.

Also I can do a bit of digging and find your comments (when you also said I spread mIsInFoRmAtIoN) when Ukraine first got HIMARS and you were saying we have no right to believe they might even use it for targets inside Russia. Well HIMARS or not, 6 months laters and Ukraine did strike Russia many times. 

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40 minutes ago, FfFfFfFF said:

We have no evidence =/= this is not true. Since when has Ukraine the technology to strike hundreds of kms when it has repetedly and repetedly asked for Western weapons? Regardless, even if it was an Ukrainian made weapon, this happened with US support.

We can't tell Ukraine what to do, but we have the right to pull our support when things go off rails. You can be idealistic and reckless, or you can be grounded and objective. It's a matter of time until Ukraine will strike Moscow and Russia will then feel emboldened to strike NATO supply line. Don't believe it? Just watch.

Also I can do a bit of digging and find your comments (when you also said I spread mIsInFoRmAtIoN) when Ukraine first got HIMARS and you were saying we have no right to believe they might even use it for targets inside Russia. Well HIMARS or not, 6 months laters and Ukraine did strike Russia many times. 

The extent to which you're going out of your way to intentionally spread disinformation and conspiracy theories on this website is amazing. And I honestly think something should be done about it. This is not the first time now. No, Ukraine did not use HIMARS. And you don't have a right to spread conspiracy theories and disinformation, misleading other people without providing any source/evidence.

Here, even russian military reporters  admit that Ukraine did not use western weapons to attack the military base. They used an old soviet drone (Tu-141 Strizh UAVs). Western sources also confirmed that no western weapons were used. Here is a Wall Street Journal article for you, confirming that Ukraine can't use HIMARS to strike inside Russia because they were modified by the U.S military to hinder that ability. 

So i'm not gonna waste my time on another back and forth with you. But please stop with these unhinged unsubstantiated takes. When even the Russian Ministry of Defense lacks the audacity to make claims as ridiculous as yours, that says something about your credibility.
 


 

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PartySick
9 hours ago, FfFfFfFF said:

99% certain this happened with US/NATO approval. We are just the peasants watching the political elites escalate more each day and we can do nothing about it.

We are in 2022 and Ukraine is striking 600kms into Russia with Western weapons, this would have been unthinkable in 2021. Imagine at what stage we will be in 2023 or 2024.

I definitely buy into the "this is a proxy war" narrative (as to why the US and NATO are so keen on backing Ukraine as hard as we have) but I also HIGHLY doubt any NATO member, the US included, would approve of striking into Russia.

9 hours ago, Dennis said:

Don't think so. Every nation has a right to defend itself. As long as Ukraine strikes legitimate military targets while trying to avoid civilian casualties, they're fine. In this case they attacked bombers that were preparing to fly and launch air strikes on ukrainian cities. So no one has the right to complain, and especially not people who live thousands of miles away from the targets of these bombers.

But how long until "military targets" turn into "oops we hit a city /s". 

I am 10000% here for Ukraine pushing Russian forces out of their borders but there's people living in Russia that I care deeply about and this new level of escalation is, personally, terrifying :saladga: not to mention part of this war is about controlling a narrative. Ukraine striking within Russian borders? That's just fuel for Putin tbh. He already uses annexed territory in that way, I'm sure actual Russian land would be used the same way.

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30 minutes ago, PartySick said:

I am 10000% here for Ukraine pushing Russian forces out of their borders but there's people living in Russia that I care deeply about and this new level of escalation is, personally, terrifying :saladga: not to mention part of this war is about controlling a narrative. Ukraine striking within Russian borders? That's just fuel for Putin tbh. He already uses annexed territory in that way, I'm sure actual Russian land would be used the same way.

I don't think it's fuel for Putin. Popular opinion didn't seem to matter at all. Putin carried out mobilization successfully. And whether russians approve or not of this is becoming increasingly irrelevant as Putin is simply able to do whatever the heck he wants so far.

And I don't think russian lives are more valuable than Ukrainians lives. Ukraine's duty is to avoid civilian casualties and not commit war crimes. This is not a war they started. They don't have a duty to not target russian military bases at all. They have a duty to protect their own citizens from incoming russian bombers who keep thrusting 10M+ into cold and darkness in the middle of winter, as well as killing thousands of their own civilians. And as such, they were more than justified in taking out some of these bombers that were preparing to strike ukrainian cities. And maybe it's one of the reasons why Russia's missile attacks today were one of the least successful ones in recent weeks.

It's beyond insulting if we ask and expect ukrainians to worry more about russian lives than their own, nor can we ask them to await their death without fighting back because we're afraid of Putin. This is their battle. They're the ones dealing with the consequences and feeling the pain. It's not our place. My only ask, is in their fight they must adhere to the rules of war in international law. And this attack on a russian base does not violate that.

 

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FfFfFfFF
2 hours ago, Dennis said:

The extent to which you're going out of your way to intentionally spread disinformation and conspiracy theories on this website is amazing. And I honestly think something should be done about it. This is not the first time now. No, Ukraine did not use HIMARS. And you don't have a right to spread conspiracy theories and disinformation, misleading other people without providing any source/evidence.

Here, even russian military reporters  admit that Ukraine did not use western weapons to attack the military base. They used an old soviet drone (Tu-141 Strizh UAVs). Western sources also confirmed that no western weapons were used. Here is a Wall Street Journal article for you, confirming that Ukraine can't use HIMARS to strike inside Russia because they were modified by the U.S military to hinder that ability. 

So i'm not gonna waste my time on another back and forth with you. But please stop with these unhinged unsubstantiated takes. When even the Russian Ministry of Defense lacks the audacity to make claims as ridiculous as yours, that says something about your credibility.
 


 

Irelevant.

Ukrainian or Western we are atill talking about weapons being used by a Western ally to strike military targets into Russia (first into Belgorid, then Kursk, then this - you are just naive to think other cities won't follow). This goes to show how red lines are continously and mutually being crossed and this transforms into something big. If you are so pro-Ukraine that you don't care about the consequences of these actions, you can fight as a volunteer already, but the rest of us may mot be willing to do so.

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