heygurlhi 3,200 Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 Only reason why Putin still doing all this special operation nonsence and pulling wierd reserves is cause regular people dont like and dont support the war, **** some more on them who already dealing with sanctions affecting the poorset and their opinion will change so Putin will declare oficial war mobilise the full army and GG. Ignore me i drink Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfio 97 Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 This is idiotic and would even amplify the Russian narrative that the west were never friendly towards Russia to average Russians. You would be surprised that the current isolation 'tactics' Europe and US is pulling is making Putin's approval ratings skyrocket. While were at it, maybe it's time we recognize the Zelensky the world knew before the "special operations" started; and that there are actual liberal Russians residing West currently being hated by the average Westerners and the Russian government before the world becomes how it treated the Japanese and the Italians all over again. Everybody, stay cautious. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRCF29 8,230 Posted August 10, 2022 Author Share Posted August 10, 2022 A couple on thoughts on posts so far in this thread. 1. Zelensky is not talking about denying visas to Russian nationals, he is talking about banning all travel into western countries. 2. Comparisons of Russian protesting habits to French and American protesting habits is apples to oranges. There does not exist, in Russia, any de facto protection for free assembly and protest. Peaceful protests at the start of the invasion led to the arrests of over 5,000 in one weekend It's not just a matter of "guts" it is very much a matter of life-and-death, in some cases, to protest against Putin. 3. From a geopolitical standpoint, the West banning entry for all Russians on the grounds that the people chose their government may have the unintended effect of further legitimizing Russian elections and thus Putin's administration. 4. As others have mentioned, it will hand Putin a propaganda tool along the lines of "Western Nazis are discriminating against the Russian people." Don't Call Me Gaga Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamaris 73 Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 The last time when this kind of media and all-out war was waged against a nation, WW2 started. The ban on Russians is being called or is already in force Sportsman Composer A musician A journalist Academics Media Writers It is widely accepted to call for the murder or to celebrate the death of Russians. I don't support killing, I never will. But please understand that at any moment you can fall out of favor with the media, global politics, open contempt. Recognize the danger of lobbying and hustling, things get out of hand. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsleepOnTheCeiling 6,988 Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 On 8/9/2022 at 3:13 AM, AnnaNicoleSmith said: Takes guts to do it. I think not many nation can do it. France is capable, US… many others but some just can’t. They stay silent in their corner too scared i also think u can’t blame Zelensky for banning all Russians. They can’t trust the country anymore. Sure not everyone is « bad » but it’s better to ban everyone than to have to play the guessing game I think you can blame Zelensky. It comes off as a hate towards Russians because they're Russians. Segregating people based on their background alone has NEVER ended well, ever. We've seen that some of Russia's own soldiers don't know what's going on or want to do it. So our solution is to cut them off more and put them into more of a bubble? Enforce the propaganda that everybody discriminates against Russia? It's short sighted, discriminatory, and very World War behavior of them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 5 minutes ago, TortureMeOnReplay said: I think you can blame Zelensky. It comes off as a hate towards Russians because they're Russians. Segregating people based on their background alone has NEVER ended well, ever. We've seen that some of Russia's own soldiers don't know what's going on or want to do it. So our solution is to cut them off more and put them into more of a bubble? Enforce the propaganda that everybody discriminates against Russia? It's short sighted, discriminatory, and very World War behavior of them. I don't know, we don't live in a world of teletubbies and nickleodeon. They have been hurt, deeply, r*ped, attacked, murdered, bombed, they can't trust the country anymore. I think it's sane to want to ban everyone there. It'd be like saying you were married and the husband was abusive, you get a divorce, and you tell the person well your husband's cousins are nice, you can trust them. You just don't want to talk to them anymore? You wanna cut them off out of your life, and so what if they wanna do that? I say good for them. We live in different eras anyways and I'm sure maybe the rship could heal, but playing a guessing game of which russian citizen you can trust and won't hurt you, well, i'm sorry but that's stupid. Would take way too much time and effort and for what. Russians are doing good, don't worry about them Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 38 minutes ago, JRCF29 said: 2. Comparisons of Russian protesting habits to French and American protesting habits is apples to oranges. There does not exist, in Russia, any de facto protection for free assembly and protest. Peaceful protests at the start of the invasion led to the arrests of over 5,000 in one weekend It's not just a matter of "guts" it is very much a matter of life-and-death, in some cases, to protest against Putin. Yeah.. just like how algerians had the guts to protest against their "leader" who was a dictator.Many citizens have done this, some can't though, for example Morocco has never had the guts, they tried when Hassan II was in power and the police came out with guns, ever since they never had the courage to protest against dictatorship. It is what it is. 40 minutes ago, JRCF29 said: 4. As others have mentioned, it will hand Putin a propaganda tool along the lines of "Western Nazis are discriminating against the Russian people." Whatever you do, his propaganda will always work in his country so... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRCF29 8,230 Posted August 10, 2022 Author Share Posted August 10, 2022 1 hour ago, AnnaNicoleSmith said: Yeah.. just like how algerians had the guts to protest against their "leader" who was a dictator.Many citizens have done this, some can't though, for example Morocco has never had the guts, they tried when Hassan II was in power and the police came out with guns, ever since they never had the courage to protest against dictatorship. It is what it is. I don't disagree with the spirit of this take. I certainly celebrate those who, even in the face of loss of life or limb, stand up against dictatorships, totalitarianism, and oppression. And I don't necessarily disagree with the opinion that Russians don't have it in them to take that stand. Hong Kong is a really timely example of citizens being brave enough to fight back in the face of handcuffs and guns, and it may be true that history will remember Russians as weaker in spirit than those who have faced Putin-type leaders in the past. I just think this situation is more layered than Zelensky is portraying it with his statement in the WaPo piece, and an understanding of Russian government reaction to peaceful protests puts the lack of "shouting at" Putin in better context. I'm not saying that Russians are fully off the hook, in all cases, for lack of protest (and certainly those 5,000 arrested that I mentioned weren't deterred, proving it is possible to protest however briefly) just because it's more difficult or dangerous than in France or the U.S., but lack of action is, I think, more understandable than it might be in the U.S. or France. Don't Call Me Gaga Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRCF29 8,230 Posted August 10, 2022 Author Share Posted August 10, 2022 2 hours ago, Lamaris said: It is widely accepted to call for the murder or to celebrate the death of Russians. I will need to see some sources on this one. I'm not sure that anybody in the mainstream of international politics discussions is calling for the murder of Russians as a national group. Don't Call Me Gaga Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsleepOnTheCeiling 6,988 Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 1 hour ago, AnnaNicoleSmith said: I don't know, we don't live in a world of teletubbies and nickleodeon. They have been hurt, deeply, r*ped, attacked, murdered, bombed, they can't trust the country anymore. I think it's sane to want to ban everyone there. It'd be like saying you were married and the husband was abusive, you get a divorce, and you tell the person well your husband's cousins are nice, you can trust them. You just don't want to talk to them anymore? You wanna cut them off out of your life, and so what if they wanna do that? I say good for them. We live in different eras anyways and I'm sure maybe the rship could heal, but playing a guessing game of which russian citizen you can trust and won't hurt you, well, i'm sorry but that's stupid. Would take way too much time and effort and for what. Russians are doing good, don't worry about them That's a gross oversimplification of the reality and gravity of the issue. And really if you want to make your analogy work it'd be more close to "my ex husband abused me so throw his entire family in jail because they might all be abusers. It's too much time and effort to see who might or might not be one in his family". No, this isn't all Nickelodeon and Teletubbies and nobody ever said it was. But not everybody or even close to half the people are guilty. That is the kind of stuff that led us to World War 2 (pointing fingers at entire demographics) and if we held up to the practice then we still would be shutting out Germany entirely. Also, let's not forget Ukraine was once part of the USSR and because we aren't in the land of teletubbies and Nickelodeon, by your theory we couldn't trust the Ukrainians either. Since it's too much effort to see who each individual is. Lumping 100,000s or 1,000,000 of people into a single group is a dangerous game and would result in never ending conflict. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRCF29 8,230 Posted August 10, 2022 Author Share Posted August 10, 2022 "Why people in my native Russia aren't protesting attacks against Ukraine" From WBUR (a Boston-based news outlet) c. May 2022. An interesting perspective that I think reveals the complexities of protesting in Russia. Don't Call Me Gaga Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 29 minutes ago, TortureMeOnReplay said: That's a gross oversimplification of the reality and gravity of the issue. And really if you want to make your analogy work it'd be more close to "my ex husband abused me so throw his entire family in jail because they might all be abusers. It's too much time and effort to see who might or might not be one in his family". No, this isn't all Nickelodeon and Teletubbies and nobody ever said it was. But not everybody or even close to half the people are guilty. That is the kind of stuff that led us to World War 2 (pointing fingers at entire demographics) and if we held up to the practice then we still would be shutting out Germany entirely. Also, let's not forget Ukraine was once part of the USSR and because we aren't in the land of teletubbies and Nickelodeon, by your theory we couldn't trust the Ukrainians either. Since it's too much effort to see who each individual is. Lumping 100,000s or 1,000,000 of people into a single group is a dangerous game and would result in never ending conflict. I'm not saying you have to think all russians are bad. I'm only thinking, in my opinion, for security reasons and the state of the war, banning entry of all russians is not a bad idea at all Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamaris 73 Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 32 minutes ago, JRCF29 said: I will need to see some sources on this one. I'm not sure that anybody in the mainstream of international politics discussions is calling for the murder of Russians as a national group. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/exclusive-facebook-instagram-temporarily-allow-calls-violence-against-russians-2022-03-10/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/03/10/tech/facebook-instagram-russians/index.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/03/10/facebook-violence-russians/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRCF29 8,230 Posted August 10, 2022 Author Share Posted August 10, 2022 6 minutes ago, Lamaris said: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/exclusive-facebook-instagram-temporarily-allow-calls-violence-against-russians-2022-03-10/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/03/10/tech/facebook-instagram-russians/index.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/03/10/facebook-violence-russians/ I disagree that these sources adequately support the claim that it is widely acceptable to call for the murder of Russians. From your first listed source (Reuters): "We still won't allow credible calls for violence against Russian civilians," A Meta spokesperson said in a statement. Calling for a military victory is substantially different than calling for the murder of Russians writ large Don't Call Me Gaga Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamaris 73 Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 I'm interested in your opinion about Israel. Should they be subject to sanctions and bans like Russia? Then, considering several really suspicious operations and attacks by US and NATO forces, should they also be put under generalization and lock? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Featured Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.