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Evan Rachel Wood claims Marilyn Manson ‘essentially raped’ her on-camera


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Teletubby

Evan Rachel Wood claims that she was “essentially raped on-camera” by Marilyn Manson in the first part of Phoenix Rising, Wood’s new documentary that premiered Sunday night at the Sundance Film Festival. Phoenix Rising will air in 2 parts on HBO in the coming months.

The film details her on-again, off-again relationship with the rocker, who Wood claimed “horrifically abused” her for years from 2006 to 2011. (“When I made my final escape,” she says in the film.)

The actor has accused the rock musician of raping her on the set of the music video for his 2007 single Heart-Shaped Glasses (When the Heart Guides the Hand).

Spoiler

“It’s nothing like I thought it was going to be,” Wood says in the Amy Berg-directed film. “We’re doing things that were not what was pitched to me. We had discussed a simulated sex scene, but once the cameras were rolling, he started penetrating me for real. I had never agreed to that … It was complete chaos. I did not feel safe. No one was looking after me. It was a really traumatizing experience filming the video. I felt disgusting and that I had done something shameful and I could tell that the crew was uncomfortable and nobody knew what to do.

“That’s when the first crime was committed against me. I was essentially raped on-camera.”

She said that Manson gave her “really clear” instructions on how she should describe the video to journalists. “I was supposed to tell people we had this great, romantic time and none of that was the truth,” Wood says.
“But I was scared to do anything that would upset Brian in any way. The video was just the beginning of the violence that would keep escalating over the course of the relationship.”

“Phoenix Rising” began filming in 2019 as Wood banded together with other survivors of domestic violence to push for changing the statute of limitations on cases like theirs in California and beyond.

The first part ends with Wood on the precipice of publicly naming Marilyn Manson as her abuser for the first time, which she did along with several others in February 2021.

Though Marilyn Mansonsubsequently became the subject of investigations and was dropped by his agents and record label, he’s since resurfaced to hang out with the likes of Kanye West and Madonna as recently as last week. 

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Evan Rachel Wood claims that she was “essentially raped on-camera” by Marilyn Manson in the first part of Phoenix Rising, Wood’s new documentary that premiered Sunday night at the Sundance Film Festiv

What the ****?! She explicitly says she agreed to do a simulated sex scene but was "barely conscious" to object because she was "fed absinthe": In Phoenix Rising, a new documentary about her life

She's not saying she didn't agree to a sex scene. But a simulated sex scene is very different than actually being p*netrated on camera, which is what she's saying she didn't agree to.

Nathaniel Arven
5 minutes ago, ProfessionalClown said:

She has literally changed her story 50 different times.

the video was literally based on how she got to manson, by going to his shows, wearing Lolita inspired outfits, and her heart shaped glasses. She had creative direction in the video, now she’s saying this? :saladga:

 

:saladga:

r u also a michael yukson's fan ? 

Edited by Nathaniel Arven
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Suspiria
26 minutes ago, ProfessionalClown said:

She has literally changed her story 50 different times.

the video was literally based on how she got to manson, by going to his shows, wearing Lolita inspired outfits, and her heart shaped glasses. Literally SHE was the one who pitched the s3x scene covered in blood….I-

She had creative direction in the video, now she’s saying this? :saladga:

 

She's not saying she didn't agree to a sex scene. But a simulated sex scene is very different than actually being p*netrated on camera, which is what she's saying she didn't agree to.

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Meta Mart

As someone with a very conflicted and arduous relationship with Marilyn's music and persona, I know he can be a tough person to deal with. His persona is argumentative to the point of disregard of any criticism.

That being said, I read that Evan's main accusation of rape had to do with him holding her chained or locked up in a room in a scary situation, for like a day or something, or many hours, and then coming back to her and taking advantage of her vulnerability to engage into sexual intercourse following.

For wether this is rape or not, it depends on it being a kind of a reflection on what counts as kinky role-play and what does not. I don't think that such an objectification or abuse role play would be acceptable either. And from what I hear she didn't consent to going through that that experience, it was not a norm of their relationship, she was duped into it. And I wouldn't consider indecency against a person in such a manner to allow conditions where positive sexual attentiveness should ever be construed as non-coercive. As for wether they had a relationship which could balance something like that and still have a sexual relationship following where you could call it consent, I am on the side that I don't think it's consensual from an objective point of view of that circumstance. But people are projecting that it's the kind of relationship they had, even her seeming to state that their relationship was built of a bit of a nightmare ride, of hers and his personalities living up to the Marilyn darkness persona and behaviour. Perhaps, and I'm not saying it is this, but the impressions of the worst things can overshadow the meaningful participated attachment people ascribe to themselves and their relating with others in these ways. After all, that is exactly kind of what the perspective of that very situation is reflective of. And I don't find that to be a significant or quizzical parallel, it's just I think people engaging in differing levels of power manipulation and the capacity for them to express their own consent or voice in the perspective of.. "depravity"? is what makes it meaningful to considering something as rape. It seems like it's kind of unable for Marilyn to actually do that to her, without it being rape, but that culture they were in, could still imply that such role-play might be a factor in their behaviour as to involve something like that. 

You should never bring things down to victim blaming. Evan is not at fault. And Brian may not be redeemable. But it could be a situationally irredeemable factor in the kinds of things they were doing, which is ultimately the failing of Brian's, I believe, because he brought her into that.

People engaged in that kind of BDSM type behaviour as consenting couples might have different proclivities for what they contend with as a psychological game in sex play or what not. I find that story atrocious and disgusting. I am never a fan of abusiveness in sexual relationships.

It is however a complicated notion, that would the relationship they genuinely had, where she knew the kinds of behaviours and attitudes and games they played together, have meant that Brian was in a rapist mode of fault for engaging in sex with her. It doesn't mean that it may not have been rape, or that she may not have been interpreting it as rape. And Brian's reflection of intention, matters a lot, not just to dismiss it or something, but to inter wether it was the fault of abusive behaviours he encouraged, or an intentional raping ambition.

I can't speak to their relationship. I always hoped they had a relationship of hanging out with happy goth ness and chilling watching weird movies or whatever. This whole thing makes me pretty sad, but I have to say I'm happy for anyone who is able to free themselves from a mindset of their enduring someone else's abuse, and I hope everyone chases that freedom. Heart Shaped Glasses was the first Manson record I ever got, and though I don't have it anymore, it sucks to think as a fan where I was really enjoying that music, and thought their sex scene was some kind of freaky statement, I might have been a part of that pain relationship she was going through.

Edited by Meta Mart
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Kalinda
34 minutes ago, ProfessionalClown said:

She has literally changed her story 50 different times.

the video was literally based on how she got to manson, by going to his shows, wearing Lolita inspired outfits, and her heart shaped glasses. Literally SHE was the one who pitched the s3x scene covered in blood….I-

She had creative direction in the video, now she’s saying this? :saladga:

 

What the ****?! She explicitly says she agreed to do a simulated sex scene but was "barely conscious" to object because she was "fed absinthe":

In Phoenix Rising, a new documentary about her life and career which premiered at the 2022 Sundance film festival, Wood said that during a previously discussed “simulated sex scene”, Manson “started penetrating me for real” once the cameras were rolling.

“I had never agreed to that,” she said.

She said she was fed absinthe on the set of the video, in which she plays a character styled as Lolita, and was barely conscious to object to Manson’s alleged actions.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2022/jan/24/evan-rachel-wood-accuses-marilyn-manson-of-raping-her-on-music-video-set

What she's describing is rape, and your first instinct is to attack her? 

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alsemanche

Manson is such a disguting human being and the fact that his stans still defend him and consistently attack people who were harrassed and raped by him is even more disgusting. The woman is straight up saying she got raped and they still wanna discredit her and victim blame and write 'nuanced' analyses about what happened (and we literally already have both these things on this thread lmao). F*cking disgusting. 

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Meta Mart
2 minutes ago, alsemanche said:

Manson is such a disguting human being and the fact that his stans still defend him and consistently attack people who were harrassed and raped by him is even more disgusting. The woman is straight up saying she got raped and they still wanna discredit her and victim blame and write 'nuanced' analyses about what happened (and we literally already have both these things on this thread lmao). F*cking disgusting. 

I'm not doing that. If you read it, you'll see I'm talking about why exactly that kind of thing IS rape. And why it can be technical rape and it can be even worse than rape. If people don't want to take into account what counts as technical rape things like this will continue happening.

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Nathaniel Arven
2 minutes ago, Meta Mart said:

I'm not doing that.

sis was not coming for u. 

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alsemanche
1 minute ago, Meta Mart said:

I'm not doing that. If you read it, you'll see I'm talking about why exactly that kind of thing IS rape. And why it can be technical rape and it can be even worse than rape. If people don't want to take into account what counts as technical rape things like this will continue happening.

The very fact that you say "For wether this is rape or not, it depends on it being a kind of a reflection on what counts as kinky role-play and what does not." is problematic. It IS rape and there is no doubt about that. There is no need to write essays about it. I understand what you're saying in your reply and I'm not saying you're justifying his actions or blaming the victim, but I'm tired of these long, nuanced takes that if anything only make the matter more obscure whenever a rape victim speaks up. 

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Roseblud Kisses

Why do so many rapist/pedo big names in Hollywood come from the 90s or at least became massive in the 90s?

Harvey Weinstein 

Epstein

Bryan Singer

Marilyn Manson

Kevin Spacey

???

:patrizia:

 

Skinni Pussi ConfirmedT
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Robo Ga
52 minutes ago, ProfessionalClown said:

She has literally changed her story 50 different times.

the video was literally based on how she got to manson, by going to his shows, wearing Lolita inspired outfits, and her heart shaped glasses. Literally SHE was the one who pitched the s3x scene covered in blood….I-

She had creative direction in the video, now she’s saying this? :saladga:

 

What is wrong with you?

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Meta Mart
44 minutes ago, alsemanche said:

The very fact that you say "For wether this is rape or not, it depends on it being a kind of a reflection on what counts as kinky role-play and what does not." is problematic. It IS rape and there is no doubt about that. There is no need to write essays about it. I understand what you're saying in your reply and I'm not saying you're justifying his actions or blaming the victim, but I'm tired of these long, nuanced takes that if anything only make the matter more obscure whenever a rape victim speaks up. 

FYI the very same culture Manson projected had me literally raped due to people finding exactly this kind of dark kink a culture worth celebrating.

I am a person who sometimes forgets how bad the Evan thing with Manson is, and Manson can be extremely disgusting for me, as something I have had to deal with.

That line though. About exactly the kinds of situations I've seen in my life. People that are into kink. People that are into the very goth scene, think "suicide girls" even. It doesn't make it ok to rape, even if it's a technicality of rape. 

I don't however, point the finger of blame from the people who raped me, at Manson, as if they deserve an out like that. 

For wether this is rape or not, as a court will most likely determine, it will be an argued point of notion, as to wether what they engaged in, counts a kinky role play, or not. And you might find that line problematic in this discourse, and I find it repulsive that it has to be said. But I am not intending to construe Evan as the one who is inviting the rape as a kink role play. I am speaking as to the nature of the rape that occurred, and if you read what I said, I summarise all the reasons for that line.

When I know people, who have raped me, believe that that kind of binding rape, is acceptable, because they have the power to do it. And are seen as justified because there is legitimate enthusiastic consent cultures of that kind of role play. It becomes a point of order, that for Marilyn and Evan, that will be something that's contended with.

I don't agree with it. She has made her point clear that she didn't consent. I may have made it seem like Evan had a consensual long-lasting relationship with Brian, which might have invited that kind of behaviour or attention. But I believe in the article it said they had engaged in similar in the past, not to such a degree. I don't have the nuance to explain wether it was or not, like neither do you. But if this is the discussion, I'd have it said, that even enthusiastic cultures like that, which personally disgust me, make the question of the technicality of the rape, or the horrendous notion of Manson doing some really horrific rape, quite a point of order. We see pics of Gaga in bonds in some of her photos. If people don't want to talk about when the seeming norms become the unacceptable, people will not learn.

You might find the most problematic "apologist" notion in what I said, the fact that people create a perspective after the fact, but Evan herself is open about this duplicitous nature of her relationship. I thought it relevant. I thought it had meaning as to the nature of why vulnerability in such a rape carries after effects of perspective which can and do matter. There is reason for argument that not all after perspectives should be meaningful about the nature of something that happened, as it can be so manipulative of self-assuming, but I'm not endearing that be the view. What I'm saying, is that when people do create a post-perspective that endears something to be negative, when the circumstance had more gray elements, or just wasn't built of the post-creative impulses, that matters. In this case, I would find it hard to believe, that the sex they had, was consensual, even as in the moment, she may have been consenting to the act. From Brian's perspective, he may have thought it consensual, if it were enthusiastic and non-objecting. This is the reason the technical side of this issue matters, and why the post-construction of a perspective matters in terms of the inability to form expressions at the time.

I've been avoiding the music video, because it sounds horrible. And who can excuse non-consensual and non-priorly informed and enthusiastic penetrative actions. Was Manson drugging her on absinthe? Perhaps.

There's no "nuance" in this other than what we might call reason for nuance.

Edited by Meta Mart
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Teletubby
2 minutes ago, CRUISING said:

Why do so many rapist/pedo big names in Hollywood come from the 90s or at least became massive in the 90s?

it was always like this, even before 90s, they thought that with fame, money they have a power and can do whatever they want without consequences. in the past people were more scared to talk and no one cared what rich people do. now Hugh Hefner (Playboy founder) is accused of being predator and years ago no one would care what he does because he was rich.

Reveals when?? Results when?? Do we have all submissions?? Do we have all votes?? Am I winning??
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SamanthaC
31 minutes ago, Teletubby said:

it was always like this, even before 90s, they thought that with fame, money they have a power and can do whatever they want without consequences. in the past people were more scared to talk and no one cared what rich people do. now Hugh Hefner (Playboy founder) is accused of being predator and years ago no one would care what he does because he was rich.

Not only that, he had a show the idolized his behavior. I'm glad those women are now speaking out.

she/her/hers
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