AOC: Expand the court.

[Lion Heart 15,041]

If y'all are serious about this then donate, support, and vote for: 

-Steve Bullock in Montana

-Sara Gideon in Maine

-John Hickenlooper in Colorado

-Jaime Harrison in South Carolina (don't send anymore money, he has enough)

-Dr. Boilier in Kansas

-Amy McGrath in Kentucky 

-Theresa Greenfield in Iowa

-Doug Jones in Alabama (we may lose this seat unfortunately) 

-Jaime Peters in Michigan 

-and Cal Cunningham in North Carolina 

The only way to 'stack the court' is with a Biden Presidency + Senate Majority. 

[AndyDWUW 3,971]

1 hour ago, ZacharyMark said:

A vote for the Green party is a vote for Donald Trump.

Why are you trying lecture me on corporate wall street? I said that it should be expected that politicians have their hands in that arena. But at the end of the day, Dems are much better than the Reps regarding equality. Also, latinos are a very broad demographic. Biden is losing Florida because of the socialism attacks. So saying that latinos want medicare for all and making dems run on that is a losing argument for them. Additionally, Kamala literally said that marijuana would be legalized with all criminal records expunged. Like, these policies are literally in the works and yet you choose not to even comprehend that. I can't help you if you don't want to listen. 

I'm not shaming PoC, minorities and working class people. I was talking about you. THIS type of gaslighting and putting words into other people's mouths is not going to help your anti democrat arguments as you've now proven you 1) don't understand the democratic platform for 2020 and 2) use my arguments about voting third party into a fake attack on minorities. So I don't understand why you continue to hate on the dems so much when you clearly are having issues with your own adventure/party. 

I literally just laid out for you numerous facts about the democrats for 2020. Ones that you clearly are trying to ignore to fulfill some pretentious fever dream of sticking it to the dems/reps. Once again, the republicans/conservatives on SCOTUS just tonight made it harder for people to get their votes in in Wisconsin. The same people you apparently care about regarding voting. I don't expect Dems in Washington to magically make things better. But that's not the point of participating in politics. The point is to fight against the obvious attack on democracy at this time. And clearly Democrats are on the side of democracy. 

 

But please share @Cookie Tookie

Were you not the one that assumed I was quitting politics altogether because I was ranting against democrats? 😂🤣 You assumed I wasnt gonna vote too 😂. Sorry if I was assuming things, but it appears you were too.
 

I am not trying to shame you or anyone for voting Biden, I understand the voting for lesser of two evils and voting for Biden just for the sake to get Trump out. I just have no fake illusions that Biden will be the next FDR or implement any fundamental change and his neoliberal policies might certainly lead us to the next, worse Trump (because the economic problems that brought us Trump won’t be addressed). I am trying to explain why half the country doesn’t vote. These politicians are sold out through and through, and working class people have been left to rot. So please don’t shame me as sounding privileged or call me pretentious.

Yes I am angry, I am pissed off. But not at you or any ordinary American citizen with not as much power as the corrupt politicians on both the Dem and GOP side. They love internal fighting among us, and I do not want to do that because they are the real enemy, not your fellow citizens.

A vote for green party is a vote. Plain and simple. Why can’t a Trump supporter yell at me that not voting for Trump is a vote for Biden? Same logic.

The reason I bring up the latino working class issues is because a lot of them are working class and need material well-being rather than only being pandered to with immigration policies (which are relevant but have a huge blindside) and despacito songs being played at rallies. Glad to see Biden seems to at least be talking about a minimum wage more.

Kamala’s stance against freeing an innocent man from deathrow when further evidence was provided, keeping people in prison for cheap labor,  her refusal to prosecute (against her own department’s recommendation) OneWest Bank's then-CEO Steve Mnuchin for mortgage fraud (who is now happily in trump’s administration), and locking people up for minor marijuana charges (while laughing on a radio station that she smoke pot) speak for themselves vs the words she might be speaking today.

Also, the DNC platform earlier this year voted against legalizing weed, and won’t oppose fossil fuel subsidies anymore. So there’s some of the fun democratic platform ideals!

Also regarding democracy, the democrats don’t have a moral high ground. They went to court in states like Pennsylvania to make sure the green party is off the ballot. They love silencing dissent when it’s against them. God forbid people have a choice.

 

Again, I am not attacking you or Biden supporters. I am sorry if it sounds that way, but I am pissed off at the establishment (GOP AND THE DEMOCRATS) and I want people to understand why people like me are voting third party. I will not shut up when speaking against them. Both corporate puppets!

[AndyDWUW 3,971]

2 hours ago, TimisaMonster said:

I'm not looking forward to the riots in a week...

Did you hear about the red mirage that might occur?

 

What might happen is a lot of Dems will vote by ballot while mostly Republicans in-person the day of. Because of the delay in mail ballot counting, on election day there's a chance it appears Trump is winning for a while/maybe for days, but as time progresses, and mailed ballots are counted, states will turn blue.

 

republicans will be thinking the election is being stolen from them and theres certainly gonna be tensions in the streets. 
 

link: https://www.axios.com/bloomberg-group-trump-election-night-scenarios-a554e8f5-9702-437e-ae75-d2be478d42bb.html

[TimisaMonster 31,073]

3 minutes ago, AndyDWUW said:

Did you hear about the red mirage that might occur?

 

What might happen is a lot of Dems will vote by ballot while mostly Republicans in-person the day of. Because of the delay in mail ballot counting, on election day there's a chance it appears Trump is winning for a while/maybe for days, but as time progresses, and mailed ballots are counted, states will turn blue.

 

republicans will be thinking the election is being stolen from them and theres certainly gonna be tensions in the streets. 
 

link: https://www.axios.com/bloomberg-group-trump-election-night-scenarios-a554e8f5-9702-437e-ae75-d2be478d42bb.html

OMG...that sounds like a nightmare, but honestly no matter who wins there will be civil unrest and it won't be pretty...this year of 2020 was a COMPLETE disaster for so many reasons...like

[BillieGOAT 5,272]

This is a dumb idea. What happens when dems have a super majority in 30 years? Will republicans make the court 13? 

[Luc 4,776]

2 hours ago, AndyDWUW said:

Not sure how I feel about this but regarding ACB’s confirmation, we really do need to think a lot.

Think about how the Democratic senators always speed vote and confirm all of trump’s federal judges (which have a big influence like this)

Go think and ask Pelosi why she said she wouldn’t consider shutting down the court to delay this supreme court pick.

Fun fact: Tim Kaine voted to confirm ACB in 2017 for a judge seat

I hate the supreme court pick but sorry, the democrats aren’t there to fight for you either.

I am done voting democrat for president and will obviously never in my life vote GOP. They’ve become a republican lite party ever since Bill Clinton.  
 

The solution will never be to quit politics entirely either, and I won’t quit. I am just done playing in this duopoly system. I am voting green party for president and voting democrat down ballot.
 

At least the republicans don’t pretend and lie that they arent stabbing you in the back and trying to take everything from you. Meanwhile dems will gaslight you into thinking they’re fighting for your interest while theyre just their to do their corporate master’s bidding (same bidding that republicans do)

Voting blue no matter who and voting dems just for the courts ain’t it. 

Once you realize our two party system is a mirage and there is just one corporatist party of the USA, man do things change.

 

of course the progressives in the squad, Bernie and like 2 other members are the only ones not taking corporate money, yet they NEVER NEVER LEVERAGE their power against the corrupt democratic establishment

And this is exactly why nobody ever wins an election on a leftist platform in the Western world. With the exception of Greece in 2015, no western country has voted leftists in power since at least the 90s. Leftists are a notoriously unreliable voting bloc. Politicians make a simple political calculation to see how far to the centre they have to shift to still win. They base their political decision-making on polls, polls and polls, and go for what makes them the most likely to win an election. The group of centrist voters is always bigger than the group of leftist voters in a country. What that means is that for every leftist who refuses to vote, Biden has to shift a little bit more to the centre to compensate for that lost vote.

Look at black people to see how you can still be powerful and work the system. Supporting Black Lives Matter has now become an accepted centrist position, while it used to be quite fringe. Why? Because (a) black people vote, not for third parties but for politicians that can actually win, and (b) because they protested and convinced people of their position. That's how you get progressive change in the US. Compare that to leftists in the US. Bernie campaigned on a leftist platform, hoping it would turn out young people. But young people voted even less in the 2020 primaries than they did in 2016. The strategy to turn to the left failed, because leftists are unreliable as a voting bloc. The more leftists vote, the less Biden needs centrists (a bigger group overall) to win the presidency and the senate.

[ThisGuyTony 35,344]

2 hours ago, TimisaMonster said:

I'm not looking forward to the riots in a week...

September and October really did fly by.  

It will be a mess nonetheless...

[StarstruckIllusion 53,681]

7 minutes ago, BillieGOAT said:

This is a dumb idea. What happens when dems have a super majority in 30 years? Will republicans make the court 13? 

Maybe if you googled who Merrick Garland is and realized the republicans started it...

[MACATL 2,169]

I think dems need to be careful not to fire up republican voters who might have sat out the vote.  

[AndyDWUW 3,971]

13 minutes ago, Luc said:

And this is exactly why nobody ever wins an election on a leftist platform in the Western world. With the exception of Greece in 2015, no western country has voted leftists in power since at least the 90s. Leftists are a notoriously unreliable voting bloc. Politicians make a simple political calculation to see how far to the centre they have to shift to still win. They base their political decision-making on polls, polls and polls, and go for what makes them the most likely to win an election. The group of centrist voters is always bigger than the group of leftist voters in a country. What that means is that for every leftist who refuses to vote, Biden has to shift a little bit more to the centre to compensate for that lost vote.

Look at black people to see how you can still be powerful and work the system. Supporting Black Lives Matter has now become an accepted centrist position, while it used to be quite fringe. Why? Because (a) black people vote, and (b) because they protested and convinced people of their position. That's how you get progressive change in the US. Compare that to leftists in the US. Bernie campaigned on a leftist platform, hoping it would turn out young people. But young people voted even less in the 2020 primaries than they did in 2016. The strategy to turn to the left failed, because leftists are unreliable as a voting bloc. The more leftists vote, the less Biden needs centrists (a bigger group overall) to win the presidency and the senate.

The thing is the majority of Bernie’s ideas ARE moderate. It is the dem politicians who are extreme in opposing policies that their constituents want (because they are bought off by special interests)

Poll after poll has shown a majority of Americans, an overwhelming majority of Democrats, and a slight majority (if not then a bit below 50% sometimes) of republicans for example, support Medicare for All.

Link: https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/494602-poll-69-percent-of-voters-support-medicare-for-all

Exit polls from the dem primary showed in every state that a majority supported M4A.

Keep in mind these are the medicare for all stats with all the misinformation the corporate media yells about it, propaganda against it from special interests, and the phrasing of the question. If it was presented fairly it would certainly shoot up even more in the pools

while people argued against Bernie’s radicalism of $15 minimum wage, it has always polled with a majority of Americans.

link: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/07/30/two-thirds-of-americans-favor-raising-federal-minimum-wage-to-15-an-hour/%3famp=1

 

these are just 2 examples, and I’m not saying ALL his policies are popular with a majority of americans, but the most important and impactful are. He’s not the extremist, he is THE centrist because he is taking the regular American’s side (rather than the side of Wall Street or Special Interests who do not want the mafia middle man that is private insurance, to go away with Medicare for All)

[BillieGOAT 5,272]

19 minutes ago, StarstruckIllusion said:

Maybe if you googled who Merrick Garland is and realized the republicans started it...

I agree that what happened to him was unjust. He should have been confirmed.

What I’m arguing is that expanding the court doesn’t stop this super-majority mess from happening again. It’s a temporary fix and I don’t think it’s a logically sound long-term solution.

[Luc 4,776]

19 minutes ago, AndyDWUW said:

The thing is the majority of Bernie’s ideas ARE moderate. It is the dem politicians who are extreme in opposing policies that their constituents want (because they are bought off by special interests)

Poll after poll has shown a majority of Americans, an overwhelming majority of Democrats, and a slight majority (if not then a bit below 50% sometimes) of republicans for example, support Medicare for All.

Link: https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/494602-poll-69-percent-of-voters-support-medicare-for-all

Exit polls from the dem primary showed in every state that a majority supported M4A.

while people argued against Bernie’s radicalism of $15 minimum wage, it has always polled with a majority of Americans.

link: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/07/30/two-thirds-of-americans-favor-raising-federal-minimum-wage-to-15-an-hour/%3famp=1

 

these are just 2 examples, and I’m not saying ALL his policies are popular with a majority of americans, but the most important and impactful are. He’s not the extremist, he is THE centrist because he is taking the regular American’s side (rather than the side of Wall Street or Special Interests who do not want the mafia middle man that is private insurance, to go away with Medicare for All)

Sadly people always vote a little bit more right-wing than the policies they actually favor. That's because the policies are asked one-at-a-time in polls. People support M4A if it's the only thing. People support raising the minimum wage if that's the only thing. Same for many leftist ideas. But if you put them all together and ask people 'Do you favor implementing M4A AND the Green New Deal AND raising the minimum wage AND changing the electoral system AND making university tuition free AND forgiving student loan debt', every extra thing you add less people will support it, because they're worried about rising taxes or just generally don't like too much change. Otherwise Bernie would've easily won the primaries, because he ran on those populr policies. So how do you work around this? It's quite simple, you either choose to do one or two of these every four years (let's say that criminal justice reform and the green new deal are the most crucial at the moment), or you go halfway in all at the same time (which is what Biden is proposing). As soon as progressive legislation is passed, it becomes nearly impossible to revert it - just look at ObamaCare, so it's a stepping stone for more progressive policies.

Biden will expand ObamaCare to insure 80% of the currently uninsured and include a public option. It will only be a small step towards full coverage with a subsidized public option. And then it will only be a small step to universal public single-payer healthcare. But doing it all at once is politically very risky. The more Biden's plans get realized, the more realistic Bernie's plans become. I agree that corporate (and billionaire) donations need to be forbidden by the way. That's the other most crucial thing that needs to happen to shift the centre leftwards.

 

By the way, I just found this and thought it was very illustrative of how important it is to convince centrists/even centre-right people:

Now imagine 2% of the 11% in the Green camp don't vote. That means Biden (or 'Labor') would need to convince an extra 2% from the conservative camp to get a majority. If all greens vote, Biden doesn't need those conservative votes to win and can move more to the centre.

[Fresco 1,688]

16 minutes ago, AndyDWUW said:

The thing is the majority of Bernie’s ideas ARE moderate. It is the dem politicians who are extreme in opposing policies that their constituents want (because they are bought off by special interests)

Poll after poll has shown a majority of Americans, an overwhelming majority of Democrats, and a slight majority (if not then a bit below 50% sometimes) of republicans for example, support Medicare for All.

Link: https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/494602-poll-69-percent-of-voters-support-medicare-for-all

Exit polls from the dem primary showed in every state that a majority supported M4A.

Keep in mind these are the medicare for all stats with all the misinformation the corporate media yells about it, propaganda against it from special interests, and the phrasing of the question. If it was presented fairly it would certainly shoot up even more in the pools

while people argued against Bernie’s radicalism of $15 minimum wage, it has always polled with a majority of Americans.

link: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/07/30/two-thirds-of-americans-favor-raising-federal-minimum-wage-to-15-an-hour/%3famp=1

 

these are just 2 examples, and I’m not saying ALL his policies are popular with a majority of americans, but the most important and impactful are. He’s not the extremist, he is THE centrist because he is taking the regular American’s side (rather than the side of Wall Street or Special Interests who do not want the mafia middle man that is private insurance, to go away with Medicare for All)

Bernie is not on the ballot. He did not get enough primary votes. This is a democracy, not a dictatorship. We don't need to argue about his policies being socialist instead of democrat. That is all off-topic. If you can't see the differences between the republican platform and the democrat platform, you are not looking very hard. Granted that Trump refused to tell us his plans for a 2nd term in the debate even when specifically asked to do that. It involves cutting programs that get poor people money, defunding social security,  and enriching military contractors, and businesses.

SCOTUS needs 7 justices instead of 9. That way, we get rid of the 2 most recent that democrats fought against.  The remaining 7 have been there for years and the GOP can't complain about them.  It also avoids the process of getting more new justices confirmed. Maybe later, it goes back to 9, who knows.  Though adding 2 more justices would be better than doing nothing. Dems need to use their power, assuming they can get some.

 

[StarstruckIllusion 53,681]

14 minutes ago, BillieGOAT said:

I agree that what happened to him was unjust. He should have been confirmed.

What I’m arguing is that expanding the court doesn’t stop this super-majority mess from happening again. It’s a temporary fix and I don’t think it’s a logically sound long-term solution.

You’re having an argument that’s been settled years ago. Republicans don’t cate about logic. Why do Democrats always get **** for fighting hard back lmao **** civility if you’re not gonna get it back. 

[BillieGOAT 5,272]

1 minute ago, StarstruckIllusion said:

You’re having an argument that’s been settled years ago. Republicans don’t cate about logic. Why do Democrats always get **** for fighting hard back lmao **** civility if you’re not gonna get it back. 

I’m just trying to look at it logically.

I, of course, know what I would like to see happen because of my personal beliefs.. but I’m saying that it isn’t a logical solution to this obvious flaw in the structure of the supreme court.

If we want to fix the problem permanently then dems need to move towards term limits for justices. THAT is a permanent solution to decades of super-majority reign happening. Thats the way I see this problem being solved permanently.