Churchill statue defaced, Edward Calston statue pulled down

[StrawberryBlond 15,618]

This isn't even the worst thing that happened. Police officers had missiles thrown at them and their horses. A man is caught on camera purposefully rolling a bike into a horse, causing it to bolt through the crowds, causing the female officer to fall off, resulting in her having a broken collarbone, collapsed lung and shattered ribs. Unlike in America, these cops weren't attacking protesters, they were just standing around, observing, keeping the peace, as officer should do at protests. They were attacked while just doing their jobs as they are paid to do so. And my heart goes out to the poor horses as former horse rider myself, this is animal abuse. The fact this topic focuses on statues being defaced over that stuff and this is what we're more outraged about tells you a lot.

But no matter, defacing statues of historic racist figures, while understandable, will not erase history. Don't get me wrong, we shouldn't honour bad people, however, the mere sight of a statue isn't actually going to lead to your discrimination, only real life events can do that. I don't even notice statues. However, if we want to pull them down, it should be done so under controlled conditions by professionals, not protestors.

1 hour ago, xoxo Craig said:

History isn't being taught properly. Every white person growing up think these men are saints... until they find out the REAL Churchill. These statues mean different things. When a white person sees Churchill they think "a war-time hero". When a black person sees Churchill, they probably think "racist". 

Absolutely not every white person thinks this. People in history are just that to me - people from the past. Plenty of bad stuff has come out about people we thought were good, so I just take historical information as it is, I don't glorify anyone. I actually didn't learn all that much about Churchill, so I can't speak much on his practices but I don't hold up anyone from history to a high degree. I just find out the facts about them and that's that. It's difficult to glorify someone who didn't live in my time. You really can't make a broad generalisation like that. A lot of young people now especially don't know this type of history or care.

[emresuxx 69]

1 hour ago, Cookies said:

they're not the superior people. sure, they WERE, but history is history. I wouldn't even want a statue of Hitler taken down. history shows trial and error, and though it is controversial, it's still beautiful to look at how far we've come

Yeah we can keep that sh*t in history books and schools. no need to glorify them by putting their ugly ass statues on the streets. 

[Harry 26,836]

Great our resident Karen is here

[xoxo Craig 55,649]

19 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

This isn't even the worst thing that happened. Police officers had missiles thrown at them and their horses. A man is caught on camera purposefully rolling a bike into a horse, causing it to bolt through the crowds, causing the female officer to fall off, resulting in her having a broken collarbone, collapsed lung and shattered ribs. Unlike in America, these cops weren't attacking protesters, they were just standing around, observing, keeping the peace, as officer should do at protests. They were attacked while just doing their jobs as they are paid to do so. And my heart goes out to the poor horses as former horse rider myself, this is animal abuse. The fact this topic focuses on statues being defaced over that stuff and this is what we're more outraged about tells you a lot.

But no matter, defacing statues of historic racist figures, while understandable, will not erase history. Don't get me wrong, we shouldn't honour bad people, however, the mere sight of a statue isn't actually going to lead to your discrimination, only real life events can do that. I don't even notice statues. However, if we want to pull them down, it should be done so under controlled conditions by professionals, not protestors.

Absolutely not every white person thinks this. People in history are just that to me - people from the past. Plenty of bad stuff has come out about people we thought were good, so I just take historical information as it is, I don't glorify anyone. I actually didn't learn all that much about Churchill, so I can't speak much on his practices but I don't hold up anyone from history to a high degree. I just find out the facts about them and that's that. It's difficult to glorify someone who didn't live in my time. You really can't make a broad generalisation like that. A lot of young people now especially don't know this type of history or care.

But it is what we get taught in school. The majority of white people go through most of their life without realising the atrocities Churchill did. Churchill is glorified... he is even on the money we use! Maybe you or I don't glorify him, but he is. It even goes as deep as British nationalism and what it means to be British. If you ask someone why they are proud to be British, they will tell you about the war and how Churchill was a hero and we should be proud of our history. People celebrate this man and glorify him to the point it becomes their identity as a British nationalist. Of course, not everyone will. Learning that he was a racist and killed millions in India (for example) never gets talked about or brought up. Its always overlooked in favour of him being a war hero. 

[Mugler 223]

Britain was the first country to outlaw slavery in the world. None of this is actually about slavery. 

[xoxo Craig 55,649]

1 minute ago, Mugler said:

Britain was the first country to outlaw slavery in the world. None of this is actually about slavery. 

Its about racism, which includes slavery 

[gag 22,449]

4 minutes ago, Mugler said:

Britain was the first country to outlaw slavery in the world. None of this is actually about slavery.

So why are people so adamant on keeping up a statue that honours a slave trader?

[ImTired 3,956]

2 hours ago, xoxo Craig said:

Edward Calston was a slave trader, and they took the statue down and threw it in the river. They have defaced Churchill and the streets are saying its the next one coming down, possibly thrown in the Thames

Its not just the US, the UK is taking down racist symbols too. 

Government personnel are outraged by it, along with many white English people. Timeline is going nuts  

[dutchyguy 249]

Its good to not have statues of the worst people in history in your town.. And good that so many care and go out to protest. It is great that there finally is a change.

Yet I can't help to think that this sucks for everyone who lost their job to covid, who stayed inside for months to protect their family and who might have lost friends or family to the virus.. To see the image of so many people crammed in the same spot against each other.. 

So I have mixed feelings, I support the removal and the protest but I find the crowds a bit disrespectful.

[xoxo Craig 55,649]

8 minutes ago, dutchyguy said:

Its good to not have statues of the worst people in history in your town.. And good that so many care and go out to protest. It is great that there finally is a change.

Yet I can't help to think that this sucks for everyone who lost their job to covid, who stayed inside for months to protect their family and who might have lost friends or family to the virus.. To see the image of so many people crammed in the same spot against each other.. 

So I have mixed feelings, I support the removal and the protest but I find the crowds a bit disrespectful.

Well before we try put the blame on the BLM protests, lemme show you this:

If there is a 2nd spike or a resurgence of Covid 19 (there are already signs of it in Northen England), then the blame should be put on people going to the beach or hanging out with their friends... who are white. Just because the BLM are important right now, the media and other people will try everything to put the blame on Black people and the movement. Its disgusting 

[dutchyguy 249]

11 minutes ago, xoxo Craig said:

Well before we try put the blame on the BLM protests, lemme show you this:

If there is a 2nd spike or a resurgence of Covid 19 (there are already signs of it in Northen England), then the blame should be put on people going to the beach or hanging out with their friends... who are white. Just because the BLM are important right now, the media and other people will try everything to put the blame on Black people and the movement. Its disgusting 

Obviously if there is a 2nd spike, its the fault of people crowding. I never said that I would blame the BLM movement for it. You are very right with these pictures, showing that lots of people are disregarding the social distance, not just the protest. If there would be a 2nd spike, crowds, including the protesters, are at fault. Its just a fact, thats how the virus spreads. It doesnt say 'oh this is a white crowd so I dont spread, or this is an important protest so I take that into consideration and I dont spread'.

Does that make it right tho? Because the white beach idiots are ****ing it up, 'we' can too? Am I not allowed to have these thoughts because I didnt say that I also judge all the beach people? Does it make me racist to have these thoughts?

In the Netherlands all the protests (except the first one) are organised so well with the social distancing, so that everybody can focus on what they are about (and the media is forced to talk about the topic instead of jumping on the ignored social distancing).

Don't get me wrong, I care deeply about the topic and since the protest I've tried to learn as much as possible about it..

[Morphine Prince 109,766]

2 hours ago, Adarsh said:

Winston Churchill was responsible for the worst famine in colonized India which killed almost 3 million people while being celebrated as a hero in the west. He deserves it 

Yup, and I was never taught this in World History in US public school. We were only taught about his role in WW2. 

[xoxo Craig 55,649]

Gonna leave this here 

 

[Morphine Prince 109,766]

Statues are to commemorate and praise someone. These monsters don’t deserve it. 

Move the statues to museums where people can look at how they were praised despite their atrocities. 

Imagine if Germany had statues of Nazi officials all over the country. Sounds insane, right? Because IT IS. And that’s exactly what happens in other countries. 

In the US it is Confederate statues. Do you realize they betrayed the US?? They are traitors who fought to the death to keep slavery. Then when they lost they implemented racist laws to keep the now free slaves from having the same opportunities as them. 

[xoxo Craig 55,649]

7 minutes ago, dutchyguy said:

Obviously if there is a 2nd spike, its the fault of people crowding. I never said that I would blame the BLM movement for it. You are very right with these pictures, showing that lots of people are disregarding the social distance, not just the protest. If there would be a 2nd spike, crowds, including the protesters, are at fault. Its just a fact, thats how the virus spreads. It doesnt say 'oh this is a white crowd so I dont spread, or this is an important protest so I take that into consideration and I dont spread'.

Does that make it right tho? Because the white beach idiots are ****ing it up, 'we' can too? Am I not allowed to have these thoughts because I didnt say that I also judge all the beach people? Does it make me racist to have these thoughts?

In the Netherlands all the protests (except the first one) are organised so well with the social distancing, so that everybody can focus on what they are about (and the media is forced to talk about the topic instead of jumping on the ignored social distancing).

Don't get me wrong, I care deeply about the topic and since the protest I've tried to learn as much as possible about it..

I think racism and tackling it is bigger than a virus... and if people wear masks and keep their distance, then it should be fine