China signals end to dog meat consumption by humans

[Fish 6,259]

in 2020 

[Ziggy 14,009]

16 minutes ago, Autumn said:

i mean, i get why they've done it but they shouldn't bow to western sentimental pressure

yes, the way they kill and eat dogs is cruel and disgusting and should absolutely be banned, but if they're raised and killed humanely it should be legal. it should be restrictions and hygiene standards, not out right banning

I think it’s more that I’m China that’s so difficult to do because of how the population is spread out. With that many people spread in such disparate ways, restrictions and standards are harder to enforce then outright banning (That’s my thought at least).

[Robagaga 9,345]

7 minutes ago, Autumn said:

thank you! i'm slowly reducing my consumption and i'm making the leap

obviously i don't want dogs to suffer and in the short term it's a great idea, i'm just concerned about the moral implications. if we hold dogs to a higher standard it immediately objectifies other animals and makes cows, pigs etc. feel less important or like a different level to dogs, which is in my opinion harmful

I do see what you mean, I think that maybe the best approach to this problem might be to ban the consumption of dogs and then you can show how all of these other animal lives are just as important and worth protecting as the one of the dog.

[paurok89 151]

19 minutes ago, Robagaga said:

About god damn ****ing time. 

I hope that soon, we will ban all meat for "the progress of human civilization" as the chinese put it. 

I know this is gonna be controversial but I am ready to have a constructive debate with any meat eater that disagrees with me. 

Yay! Constructive non aggressive debate without it having to be mean

Heeeere we goo (a-yo)

Im not a fanatic in this type of topics but as a veterinary medicine student I do want to bring in a couple of facts why I dont really see meat-free humanity happening.

The major problem is obv the death of the animals. I dont know where you are from and what the laws are there but in the UK and most of Europe all of the animals are killed in a very humane way. Okay, abattoir(new place)/traveling are stressful situations for all animals but this is usually a necessity in every animals life(going to a vet for example). Im not sure how you perceive animals, but they are not as sentient as we are. They dont think about tomorrow. Their life is more about quality than quantity(that's why we have euthanasia in veterinary medicine). And having dealt with many farmers in the past I know that most of them really love their animals and they want to ensure the best life for them. After all, they really depend on their animals. It's their living.

Also, most farm animals have been used for the purpose of meat/indoor living for such long periods that they would not survive in the wild anymore. Pigs get skin cancer when exposed to UV lighting, chicken are vulnerable to viral diseases when kept outdoors(the mortality rate is higher than indoors). Do you expect that people would still keep these animals if there was no benefit? No one is gonna cover the maintenance of their animals if they dont make any profit. So what do you want by banning meat? All of the farm animals to go extinct? They depend on people just as much as we depend on their meat(well for now at least)

The key is really in the standards. It should be about being even more humane, giving better life to animals rather than completely stopping farming industry.

[Tayko 1,203]

52 minutes ago, Robagaga said:

About god damn ****ing time. 

I hope that soon, we will ban all meat for "the progress of human civilization" as the chinese put it. 

I know this is gonna be controversial but I am ready to have a constructive debate with any meat eater that disagrees with me. 

Yay! Constructive non aggressive debate without it having to be mean

2 words : Fried Chicken 

[Horny Chicken 10,932]

Divorto Vegana, a spell to turn meat eaters into vegans. Use sparingly. 

[StuckInMyMind 5,930]

1 hour ago, Robagaga said:

About god damn ****ing time. 

I hope that soon, we will ban all meat for "the progress of human civilization" as the chinese put it. 

I know this is gonna be controversial but I am ready to have a constructive debate with any meat eater that disagrees with me. 

Yay! Constructive non aggressive debate without it having to be mean

Yall really think we can live without protein? 

[AsleepOnTheCeiling 6,939]

3 minutes ago, Ally Maine said:

Yall really think we can live without protein? 

 tofu, tempeh, lentils, nuts, seeds, and quinoa are all protein rich and vegan.

[River 127,324]

I started to reduce the red meat and the bacon that I'm eating from twice per week to once every 2 weeks.. it's the least that I can do. I love meat, nothing can change that, no matter how many animal snuff films vegans can show me

Anyway back to topic, I think it's time, but why to stop with dogs? why to stop only in China, what about Japan and the whales? Canada and the seals? and so on..

 

[Bling 31,680]

5 minutes ago, Ally Maine said:

Yall really think we can live without protein? 

 

2 minutes ago, justhislife said:

 tofu, tempeh, lentils, nuts, seeds, and quinoa are all protein rich and vegan.

And you mostly don’t have to worry about getting sick from these foods (versus animal products) such as Salmonella, E. coli, Trichinosis, BSE, etc. 

[Robagaga 9,345]

Cracked my back and my neck when I read this reply getting my debating bones tingling 

hahaha.

I'm gonna go through your post and try to respond to each different aspect individually. 

2 minutes ago, paurok89 said:

All of the animals are killed in a very humane way.  

Whilst yes the EU and many western countries claim to have done their best to make the slaughter procedure as humane as possible (even though I honestly dont think there is a way to fully humanely kill anything and on top of that the guidelines are still weak.), the life of the animal remains a sad, painful, traumatising and short life. 

I will put in the spoilers below how different animals bred for consumption live. Bewarned tho that it is very graphic in language and can be triggering. Also this is the standard for most western countries tho small difference might apply amongst different countries.

Spoiler

Pigs:

They are crammed into barren concrete pens, many never see the sun or breathe fresh air in their short lives. Boredom and the stress of extreme confinement can drive the animals to engage in aggressive behaviour such as tail-biting, so farmers routinely cut off their tails and grind down their sensitive teeth, usually without painkillers. Female pigs endure chronic pain after having rings forced through their noses, while male piglets are castrated without anaesthetics – a procedure which is legal in the EU. Just imagine that, physical castration without anaesthetics.

Chickens:

Chickens raised for consumption are called broilers. Newly hatched chicks are sent into huge sheds with 30,000 or more other birds. Bred and fed to have such a large upper body that they can barely support their own weight, the chickens may reach “slaughter weight” at only 41 days old.

Chickens on these factory farms commonly suffer from severe health problems, including deformed or arthritic legs because of excess weight gain, foot rot from never having their bedding changed, infectious diseases such as salmonella and listeria and heat stress, heart failure, breast blisters and dermatitis caused by severe crowding. Farmers frequently subject the animals to agonising procedures such as amputating part of their beaks with an infra-red laser, which is also legal in the EU, US and UK.

Cows:

 Cows are “fattened up” on a highly unnatural cereal-based diet which causes them almost-constant digestive pain. Many sheds have slatted floors, which are uncomfortable for cows to lie on. Even grass-fed cows usually spend some of their time inside, often in crowded, faeces-filled feedlots. And many animals develop respiratory problems because of the choking chemicals that fill the air caused by the piles of manure in the packed feedlots. 

Sheep:

During their short lives, they undergo painful mutilations, such as having their tails cut off or being castrated without painkillers.

Sheep left out on the hillsides hardly fare better. They are often neglected, suffering from lameness, painful infections, flystrike and parasites, such as ticks. And every winter, thousands of animals freeze to death in icy conditions.

The issue isn't how they are killed, the main issue is that we are even breeding them for our own consumption in the first place.

24 minutes ago, paurok89 said:

I'm not sure how you perceive animals, but they are not as sentient as we are.

This is a tricky and complicated topic. But the bottom line is that we have absolutely no way of knowing if animals think about tommorow. We can't go into their brains. It is also often claimed that we are more intelligent than animals. However we are measuring intelligence in a human basis when animals have their own type of intelligence. Bats that are able to detect their prey using ultrasounds might see our stupid asses and think we are really not intelligent as their measure of intelligence is different from ours. 

But the truth is that each animal is intelligent in its own way. They also feel pain, get attached, get depressed, get lonely, get stressed in very similar ways than us. I am sure you can agree with that as a veterinarian. Thus the lives that factory farmed animals live through is inherently cruel and inhumane. 

I really recommend watching the episode of Explained on netflix about animal intelligence it is an amazing and enlightening watch. 

30 minutes ago, paurok89 said:

Having dealt with many farmers in the past I know that most of them really love their animals and they want to ensure the best life for them. After all, they really depend on their animals. It's their living.

The farmers that interact with animals in this personal way are in the minority. 

99% of farmed animals in the US live in the factory farms I described before and the stats are similar in the EU and UK. 

Even then I still don't ethically agree with raising animals with their sole purpose being death. The debate about milk and eggs is a separate one that I won't get into rn as I still dont know 100% how I feel. I just believe that it is better for these animals to have never been born then to just live a life destined for consumption.

But this debate is irrelevant as a negligible amount of farmed animals are actually treated humanely during their lives. 

34 minutes ago, paurok89 said:

Do you expect that people would still keep these animals if there was no benefit? 

What do you want by banning meat? All of the farm animals to go extinct? They depend on people just as much as we depend on their meat

Honestly I still believe people that live in ethical farms like the ones you described would still keep animals for eggs or milk. 

As for farm animals to go extinct, if that means the end of their suffering yeah, I'd rather them go extinct than to continue to live through suffering. As you explained, what we have done to them is so atrocious that they often no longer can live in the wild. I don't know enough about that to give an educated answer but if stopping to breed them for consumption would mean their extinction then yes I think it would be worthwhile. 

They don't depend on us in any way. The chickens don't have the same perception of species like we do, they just perceive the suffering they are going through in that moment. I would rather these animals never be born than live through a life of suffering. 

 

I know that what I wrote is a lot hahaha but I did warn that I was ready for a debate. Just to make sure I want you to know that there are no hard feelings at all and I'm sorry if my language came off as aggressive this was never my intention. Its just a topic that I am very passionate about. 

I can give you all the sources I used if you want to do more research. 

I agree with you that it is difficult to achieve a meat free world but I still think we should fight to end the suffering of other sentient creatures. 

Also you're really cute hit me up sometime  

[Robagaga 9,345]

34 minutes ago, Tayko said:

2 words : Fried Chicken 

I know.....

Tbh Fried chicken was one of the hardest things to give up....

But gotta save those cute innocent chickens tho

[Debithius 6,056]

1 hour ago, Robagaga said:

About god damn ****ing time. 

I hope that soon, we will ban all meat for "the progress of human civilization" as the chinese put it. 

I know this is gonna be controversial but I am ready to have a constructive debate with any meat eater that disagrees with me. 

Yay! Constructive non aggressive debate without it having to be mean

Lets not.

[Robagaga 9,345]

7 minutes ago, River said:

I started to reduce the red meat and the bacon that I'm eating from twice per week to once every 2 weeks.. it's the least that I can do. I love meat, nothing can change that, no matter how many animal snuff films vegans can show me

Bless! hahaha

That is so much better than nothing and you can be proud of making a decision however small to change the status quo.

Good on you queen!

[Bling 31,680]

1 minute ago, Debithius said:

Lets not.