US unemployment could hit 20% in worst case scenario

[Maleficent 6]

18 minutes ago, gabeoz said:

Spain and Italy's lockdowns are WORKING, they are plateauing and their daily cases are falling.

Iran’s cases are falling as well and there were no lockdowns implemented. 

We have nothing to compare the coronavirus to so we can’t say for certain the spread was lessened by social distancing or by warmer weather or even by the possibility that 100x the number of ppl tester contracted the virus and no have widespread immunity. 

i don’t understand why so many on this thread are quick to accept the social distancing rules without even allowing another possibility to cross their mind. thank god these people are not scientists. 

@Florin don’t let these ppl wear you down. 

[Bt1 5,213]

5 minutes ago, Morphine Prince said:

Italy and Spain have peaked or plateaued recently and are on their way downwards.  

See the data for yourself: 

Italy: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/italy/

Spain: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/spain/

Why? Lockdowns. 

If no lockdowns were put in place there would be MORE cases, MORE deaths, MORE hospital systems in chaos.

These are MITIGATION efforts. Had none been enforced they would be NOWHERE near peaking. 

The alternative is mass deaths. 

Italy :

march 22 : 601 deaths

April 9 : 610 deaths

Spain :

March 23 : 6300 new cases

April 8 : 6200 new cases

There are good days and there are bad days. If the lockdowns would really work, the fall of new cases after 2 weeks should be clear, not 10%.

no one is saying that the lockdowns dont have effects. The questions are if the effects justified the extreme measures and if similar effects cant be obtained with other social distancing measures.

and if u look at the differences between complete lockdowns, easier lockdowns and no lockdowns ( but other social distancing measures) all over the world, the total lockdowns are hard to be justified. A good organization of the healthcare system is far more important.

 

[Morphine Prince 109,729]

3 minutes ago, Florin said:

Italy :

march 22 : 601 deaths

April 9 : 610 deaths

Spain :

March 23 : 6300 new cases

April 8 : 6200 new cases

There are good days and there are bad days. If the lockdowns would really work, the fall of new cases after 2 weeks should be clear, not 10%.

no one is saying that the lockdowns dont have effects. The questions are if the effects justified the extreme measures and if similar effects cant be obtained with other social distancing measures.

and if u look at the differences between complete lockdowns, easier lockdowns and no lockdowns ( but other social distancing measures) all over the world, the total lockdowns are hard to be justified. A good organization of the healthcare system is far more important.

 

There are trends. The trends are showing that these two countries are peaking and are hopefully on their way down in cases and deaths. You have to wait a while to see effects. 

"the fall of new cases after 2 weeks should be clear" - False. 

Thousands if not millions were already infected before this, many asymptomatic, testing won't get everybody, especially those with no symptoms. There are new infections occurring every day even if less people are out. You can be asymptomatic for up to two weeks or so from the point of infection. 

Based on the data available, we can see mitigation efforts are working to an extent. 

You say "A good organization of the healthcare system is far more important." yet you want to destroy these healthcare systems by overloading them with patients. Ludicrous. 

[Bt1 5,213]

27 minutes ago, gabeoz said:

 

 I dont-  I just-  I cant- 

China JUST lifted it's lockdown in Wuhan a few days ago after slowly lifting them in other parts of the country. Spain and Italy's lockdowns are WORKING, they are plateauing and their daily cases are falling. If the lockdown measures weren't implemented they would be in a far worse scenario right now. Lockdown doesn't magically end everything in a couple weeks, it takes time. 

I just- what is not clicking? Why is it so hard to admit the fact that lockdown measures work? A virus doesnt give a flying f*ck about the shape of the economy or our timelines. If we dont take drastic measures things could be a lot worse. And insisting on reopening the economy now would be suicide, you would just cause a second wave. How little the world, especially the US, has learned from it's mistakes in the 1918 pandemic. 

Do you even understand when people think a pandemic is under control? It isnt when there arent any new cases. 

Cant believe you take China as an example.  the numbers in the other countries are based on incomplete data, but the data from  China isnt believed by anyone, but you. 

You also dont understand what a lockdown should do, when a virus is basically everywhere. Since u cant control it anymore, u want your healthcare system to be able to control it in some way. When you have done that, the reasons behind a lockdown arent there anymore. 

 

[Bt1 5,213]

10 minutes ago, Morphine Prince said:

There are trends. The trends are showing that these two countries are peaking and are hopefully on their way down in cases and deaths. You have to wait a while to see effects. 

"the fall of new cases after 2 weeks should be clear" - False. 

Thousands if not millions were already infected before this, many asymptomatic, testing won't get everybody, especially those with no symptoms. There are new infections occurring every day even if less people are out. You can be asymptomatic for up to two weeks or so from the point of infection. 

Based on the data available, we can see mitigation efforts are working to an extent. 

You say "A good organization of the healthcare system is far more important." yet you want to destroy these healthcare systems by overloading them with patients. Ludicrous. 

Hard to explain why partial lockdowns and no lockdowns ( but social distancing measures) have similar effects with total lockdowns? 

Anyway, it is clear we dont agree. We will see soon the results of the partial opening of some countries, how Sweden will continue to handle this crisis and how manageable the economic effects are for some people. 

[Morphine Prince 109,729]

30 minutes ago, Maleficent said:

Iran’s cases are falling as well and there were no lockdowns implemented. 

This is incorrect. Iran implemented a lockdown. 

https://apnews.com/820b86f806d27a840933f1b103fbfd12

 

[Morphine Prince 109,729]

4 minutes ago, Florin said:

Hard to explain why partial lockdowns and no lockdowns ( but social distancing measures) have similar effects with total lockdowns? 

Anyway, it is clear we dont agree. We will see soon the results of the partial opening of some countries, how Sweden will continue to handle this crisis and how manageable the economic effects are for some people. 

I'm not arguing about the differences between total and partial lockdowns. They will both have some effects. Social distancing has its effects. 

You seemed to be arguing against Italy's and Spain's lockdowns. Data suggests the mitigation efforts are working. The lockdowns there have been extensive but nowhere near as strict as some other places. After 3 weeks they are getting results. 

[Morphine Prince 109,729]

And to be clear, I'm not saying total lockdowns are 100% the answer to this pandemic. I'm just saying the data as of now is showing that places that have implemented social distancing requirements and have locked down sectors of their society are now showing some positive results. 

This is the opposite of what some people want to do which is reopen everything and live our normal lives not realizing this could collapse our hospitals and healthcare systems.

Eventually we will ease lockdowns restrictions based on the trends in cases. 

[Morphine Prince 109,729]

Not this thread being more active weeks later after it was posted  

 

[Bt1 5,213]

6 minutes ago, Morphine Prince said:

I'm not arguing about the differences between total and partial lockdowns. They will both have some effects. Social distancing has its effects. 

You seemed to be arguing against Italy's and Spain's lockdowns. Data suggests the mitigation efforts are working. The lockdowns there have been extensive but nowhere near as strict as some other places. After 3 weeks they are getting results. 

The lockdowns are in place for 4 / 5 weeks now. In some regions, the lockdown started even earlier than that. 

I'm arguing against lockdowns without time limitations and I was questioning how much more effective are than other social distancing measures. Hopefully, we will know when this will end. 

[DeleteMyAccount 11,881]

45 minutes ago, Florin said:

Italy :

march 22 : 601 deaths

April 9 : 610 deaths

Spain :

March 23 : 6300 new cases

April 8 : 6200 new cases

There are good days and there are bad days. If the lockdowns would really work, the fall of new cases after 2 weeks should be clear, not 10%.

no one is saying that the lockdowns dont have effects. The questions are if the effects justified the extreme measures and if similar effects cant be obtained with other social distancing measures.

and if u look at the differences between complete lockdowns, easier lockdowns and no lockdowns ( but other social distancing measures) all over the world, the total lockdowns are hard to be justified. A good organization of the healthcare system is far more important.

 

Can y'all stop acting like experts and let the REAL experts and professionals take the lead. It's embarrassing that we have to keep educating and correcting you. 

Of course the path of deaths in curve will be the same when there's an upward AND downward trend. You're literally seeing the downward trend right now....................

 

[DeleteMyAccount 11,881]

21 minutes ago, Morphine Prince said:

I'm not arguing about the differences between total and partial lockdowns. They will both have some effects. Social distancing has its effects. 

You seemed to be arguing against Italy's and Spain's lockdowns. Data suggests the mitigation efforts are working. The lockdowns there have been extensive but nowhere near as strict as some other places. After 3 weeks they are getting results. 

I'm just ignoring people now. People can't understand simple facts. 

[Morphine Prince 109,729]

6 minutes ago, Florin said:

The lockdowns are in place for 4 / 5 weeks now. In some regions, the lockdown started even earlier than that. 

I'm arguing against lockdowns without time limitations and I was questioning how much more effective are than other social distancing measures. Hopefully, we will know when this will end. 

Yes, I meant after 3 weeks they started* to see some results. 

When the caseload is manageable and we accustom to a new way of life of stricter social distancing we might return to a sense of normalcy.

 

[ImTired 3,956]

1 hour ago, Florin said:

You clearly are uninformed, if you think that. The lockdowns can continue forever, until a vaccine is found. 

Obviously.   So you're mad at the theoretical length of time the lockdown may be for, and calling me uninformed because I don't agree with your predetermined lockdown length? Gurl. Lol Sorry I'm not in your head. Lol Sis, Im going to step out on a limb here and say that this lockdown has hit you hard? Lost job? Income? Close family member or friend?  I'm sorry about that. Honestly. Its hit a lot of us hard. I don't feel comfortable attacking you here if you're coming from a place of hurt and legit financial pain. It all sucks. But coming on a public forum to convince us that we should be willing to sacrifice more people to fire up the economy now because you think it's time and you need to feel better about all this? That's not the way, sis. I'll say what I said before. I don't want anyone to die, and I hope we can get back to work sooner rather than later, as long as its safely. I hope most people would agree, or at least leave it to the actual experts to determine when that safe time is.  And that's what they're doing, so you have a good day. 

[Maleficent 6]

1 hour ago, Morphine Prince said:

This is incorrect. Iran implemented a lockdown. 

https://apnews.com/820b86f806d27a840933f1b103fbfd12

 

lol for 5 days and no one even obeyed it. go look at the abadan highway, it was packed for nowruz all through march