Sanders, Buttigieg, O’Rourke defend Tulsi Gabbard

[derpmonster 22,412]

1 minute ago, Morphine Prince said:

I have never liked Tusli as a candidate. I also thought this way before Clinton said it

 

I don't like her either but I agree with Sanders on that she has literally served. Clinton's claims were very strong. Claiming collusion is one thing, she literally called her a Russian asset.

Tulsi wasn't even polling well anyway. It was entirely unnecessary.

[SKANK 14,288]

When you combine her support from Russian bots and Russian state media which is bolstered by American Conservative media, her disturbing public comments about Assad and other dictators that align with Russian talking points, her choosing to higher Chris Cooper (a lobbyist who previously worked for Natalia Veselnitskaya, the Russian lawyer present at the famous Trump Tower meeting,) and her voting record in the House - refusing the vote condemning Putin's murder of Boris Nemtsov, refusing the vote on whether the US should recognizes Putin's annexation of Crimea, etc....you can understand why someone might get the impression she's a Russian asset.

Witting or unwitting, it's peculiar.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/10/21/1894034/-The-Strange-Alliances-of-Tulsi-Gabbard-Bill-Browder-and-others-highlight-odd-affinities

 

 

 

[Hybrid AT 78]

Pete didn't defend her. Publications have misrepresented his statements. Chuck Todd pushed him into a gotcha question but he refused to take sides, like any running Dem should. Both the statements, that A) Tulsi is a Russian asset and B) Russia is grooming a candidate to run for third party require evidence. 

So far only Sanders, Beto, Yang, Marianne and Booker have defended her.

[Eighteen 5,430]

i don't care who comes to her defense. after her little PR stunt with the last debate, thank u, NEXT! 

she flushed all of her integrity down the toilet with that one in my eyes. she should just join the republican party at this point. 

[Lord Temptation 11,209]

Bernie has impeccable judgment. We stan a wise king 

Beto and Pete also showing common sense 

[ItsTommyBitch 12,640]

Nuance is possible y'all.

I hate Tulsi Gabbard as a politician, I think every thing about her policy is essentially garbage, even the arguably good anti interventionist mindset on foreign policy is  rooted in American exceptionalism and not in securing global peace or good relations in the world. She's been DoA for me for like 2 years since I figured she would run and started following her.

For that matter, an "asset" is just a person or thing of value. If you accept this, then Clinton's words or at least intentions are somewhat true - Tulsi's views and acceptance with the right could be seen as part of a larger disinformation campaign, similar to what David Duke and the KKK do by endorsing random democratic candidates to get people to back away from them. It's possible Russia likes her and sees her views as useful in moving votes away from certain areas and to others, sure...

But she's not Literally a Russian Asset in the sense that her policy positions are not verbatim shaped by the interests of Putin or another country, they aren't meeting and hes not telling her what to say, how to act, where to appear, etc. It's disingenuous to say "hmm, she says some things Russia likes and the alt right likes, it must mean they are literally grooming her" which is what people have taken Clinton's words to mean. This is what Bernie, Beto, O'Rourke, and yes Buttigieg have shied away from or taken a stance against. It's ridiculous to imply that. Hillary Clinton is many things, but she is intelligent. She could have left it that vague - "There are people in conservative circles globally that would like to see Tulsi succeed" - easily verifiable, not outrageous conspiracy theory, end of story.

 

[PoshLife 17,019]

20 minutes ago, ItsTommyBitch said:

Nuance is possible y'all.

I hate Tulsi Gabbard as a politician, I think every thing about her policy is essentially garbage, even the arguably good anti interventionist mindset on foreign policy is  rooted in American exceptionalism and not in securing global peace or good relations in the world. She's been DoA for me for like 2 years since I figured she would run and started following her.

For that matter, an "asset" is just a person or thing of value. If you accept this, then Clinton's words or at least intentions are somewhat true - Tulsi's views and acceptance with the right could be seen as part of a larger disinformation campaign, similar to what David Duke and the KKK do by endorsing random democratic candidates to get people to back away from them. It's possible Russia likes her and sees her views as useful in moving votes away from certain areas and to others, sure...

But she's not Literally a Russian Asset in the sense that her policy positions are not verbatim shaped by the interests of Putin or another country, they aren't meeting and hes not telling her what to say, how to act, where to appear, etc. It's disingenuous to say "hmm, she says some things Russia likes and the alt right likes, it must mean they are literally grooming her" which is what people have taken Clinton's words to mean. This is what Bernie, Beto, O'Rourke, and yes Buttigieg have shied away from or taken a stance against. It's ridiculous to imply that. Hillary Clinton is many things, but she is intelligent. She could have left it that vague - "There are people in conservative circles globally that would like to see Tulsi succeed" - easily verifiable, not outrageous conspiracy theory, end of story.

 

There is important nuance here - which is something Hillary Clinton gets and most people don't. Nobody called Tulsi a Russian operative or said she was intentionally working with, or helping, Russia. But she IS a Russian asset in terms of sowing discord in the Democratic Party (which ultimately benefits friend-of-Russia Donald Trump), and opposing American involvement in the Middle East which enables Russia to grow its influence in that region.

We already know that in 2016, Russian operatives and bots spread anti-Clinton propaganda and specifically targeted Bernie Sanders and Jill Stein supporters. It's not exactly a leap of faith to believe they would be doing it again this year, targeting supporters of this year's most anti-establishment candidate - Tulsi Gabbard. 

[ItsTommyBitch 12,640]

1 minute ago, PoshLife said:

There is important nuance here - which is something Hillary Clinton gets and most people don't. Nobody called Tulsi a Russian operative or said she was intentionally working with, or helping, Russia. But she IS a Russian asset in terms of sowing discord in the Democratic Party (which ultimately benefits friend-of-Russia Donald Trump), and opposing American involvement in the Middle East which enables Russia to grow its influence in that region.

We already know that in 2016, Russian operatives and bots spread anti-Clinton propaganda and specifically targeted Bernie S anders and Jill Stein supporters. It's not exactly a leap of faith to believe they would be doing it again this year, targeting supporters of this year's most anti-establishment candidate - Tulsi Gabbard. 

I agree. We know that they targeted Jill Stein and Bernie Sanders supporters. The extent to its effectiveness is a hairier variable to pin down but it did happen.

However as u've pointed out, MSM will hear "Russian Asset" and think "Russian operative"

To me thats what the discourse looks like on both sides. I get people that hate Hillary Clinton to her ****ing core, but even my progressive friends are tripping over themselves at this one a bit...

Given that the media is conflating an "asset" with an "operative", I think these people were right to distance themselves from that comment.  

I'm not ultimately too invested into this drama though because even if I agree in supporting Tulsi against this kind of rhetoric, she's still a hot garbage candidate for so many reasons. I'd rather Bernie have stayed silent but hes just not that kind of person and hes certainly better than I am in that regard   I will respect it.

[JusKeepBreathin 19,311]

I'm actually not sure how much more evidence you need for Hillary's statements. 

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/russia-s-propaganda-machine-discovers-2020-democratic-candidate-tulsi-gabbard-n964261

There is evidence of her statements dating back to February. Russian bot sites and Russian state run media support Tulsi is just fact.