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Climate Advocates Nearly Unanimous: Bernie's Plan Is Best

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Marilyn MonHoe
14 minutes ago, Economy said:

True, thats the technical correct term your right. Sorry for that mistake. But i think u know what i meant tho. By socialist i was refering to a more left on the spectrum in favour of bigger government. Id rather focus on the point we’re actually discussing tho rather than starting to argue about correct terminology. Cuz thats how these discussions on GGD start to go off topic and in no time were arguing about the meaning of vocabulary rather than the point at hand 👀

 

Back to the point, i reiterated the point tho because i dont think people realize the degree it will be.

 

most bernie sanders supporters ive met seem to think everything is as simple as taxing the rich as therefore the bottom 99% doesnt have to shoulder any of the economic costs

 

im trying to point out its a lot more to a greater degree than even @Born To Slay comment might imply

 

i do like the plan. I just think most ppl dont realize how much theyll feel the costs too outside the top 1% tier tho and knowing people they are gonna complain :selena:

It’s important to get these terms correct though. You’ve already agreed that he is in fact a social democrat so we shouldn’t have anymore arguments over it :shrug:

Those Bernie supporters that you’ve spoken to would be wrong. I’m a big Bernie supporter (I’m sure you’ve noticed :ladyhaha:) and I’m telling you that everybody will have to chip in for the betterment of our society. But there are ways to go about it that will have the rich shoulder a bigger share of it than the poor working middle class.

We can all speculate on what people will do but that really isn’t an argument against the kinds of plans that Bernie is proposing :shrug:

Edited by Marilyn MonHoe
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Economy
2 minutes ago, Born To Slay said:

I gotcha, I get what ur saying. I don’t think Bernie is being dishonest tho. He’s fairly honest that some of his plans will see greater investment from the middle class. Even here, he’s honest that much of the plan will be paid for by cutting welfare sending, cutting military spending and new income tax revenue. He’s also honest about the fact that the transition will be helped by the government but not entirely. So while I do agree that people need to understand what they’re getting into, I’d say Bernie has been pretty honest. 

Well. As long as hes being honest thats good. I think its some of the ppl that dont get the full scope

 

but overall i like the plan

 

side note does bernie have any plans to tackle that horrible gas from green energy the SF6?

 

its some 23,000 times more potent than CO2 in causing greenhouse heating effect and lately some issues are being brought up that green energy wont be so green after all if we dont tackle the problem of SF6 leaks into the atmosphere

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Economy
1 minute ago, Marilyn MonHoe said:

It’s important to get these terms correct though. You’ve already agreed that he is in fact a social democrat so we shouldn’t have anymore arguments over it :shrug:

Those Bernie supporters that you’ve spoken to would be wrong. I’m a big Bernie supporter (I’m sure you’ve noticed :ladyhaha:) and I’m telling you that everybody will have to chip in for the betterment of our society. But there are ways to go about it that will have the rich shoulder a bigger share of it than the poor working middle class.

We can all speculate on what people will do but that really isn’t an argument against the kinds of plans that Bernie is proposing :shrug:

It is import. But arguments over vocabulary technicalities on this site sometimes go so far that the entire issue that was being discussed in the first place gets lost. I no longer engage in these arguments on this site cuz... it just ends the conversation there and then and changes to something else :air:

 

and its good u recognize it. When i hear some bernie fans talk about certain things it seems that they are convinced the rich will exclusively hold all the costs and i think those ppl are in for a disappointment if and when these issues go thru

 

also on a side note as i was saying to born to slay i hope bernie also has plans to deal with SF6 as new information coming out suggests green energy wont help all that much if we dont deal with that side effect of it. We need better ways to deal with those leak issues

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Marilyn MonHoe
13 minutes ago, Economy said:

It is import. But arguments over vocabulary technicalities on this site sometimes go so far that the entire issue that was being discussed in the first place gets lost. I no longer engage in these arguments on this site cuz... it just ends the conversation there and then and changes to something else :air:

 

and its good u recognize it. When i hear some bernie fans talk about certain things it seems that they are convinced the rich will exclusively hold all the costs and i think those ppl are in for a disappointment if and when these issues go thru

 

also on a side note as i was saying to born to slay i hope bernie also has plans to deal with SF6 as new information coming out suggests green energy wont help all that much if we dont deal with that side effect of it. We need better ways to deal with those leak issues

I’m sure that he will. He has the overall highest rated climate plans out of everyone so if anything new like SF6 starts to be a big issue, he’ll address it.

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Economy
Just now, Marilyn MonHoe said:

I’m sure that he will. He has the overall highest rated climate plans out of everyone so if anything new like SF6 starts to be a big issue, he’ll address it.

I was so upset when i started to learn about SF6 issue cuz i thought we were finally making big progress with green energy to reduce greenhouses and then these reports come out and im like are you kidding me?

 

its like every solution turns out to never be a solution :neyde:

 

 

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Marilyn MonHoe
5 minutes ago, Economy said:

I was so upset when i started to learn about SF6 issue cuz i thought we were finally making big progress with green energy to reduce greenhouses and then these reports come out and im like are you kidding me?

 

its like every solution turns out to never be a solution :neyde:

 

 

Yeah I know. Dealing with Climate Change is going to be an ongoing issue with new challenges unfortunately :toofunny:

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Economy
3 minutes ago, Marilyn MonHoe said:

Yeah I know. Dealing with Climate Change is going to be an ongoing issue with new challenges unfortunately :toofunny:

I had an idea that could maybe help slightly

 

what if everything we paint like roofs, houses in some countries that are made if cement and get painted, buildings etc etc etc we did everything we could in white which deflects a lot of sun?

 

rather than cities absorbing so much heat we could turn them into mini Albeto causing zones.

 

im not saying that would solve global warming but its an easy unexpensive thing to do. Rather than painting something black or red, we encourage white. I mean, ice and snow deflect sun because its white :shrug:

 

deflective particles may also help

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Marilyn MonHoe
8 minutes ago, Economy said:

I had an idea that could maybe help slightly

 

what if everything we paint like roofs, houses in some countries that are made if cement and get painted, buildings etc etc etc we did everything we could in white which deflects a lot of sun?

 

rather than cities absorbing so much heat we could turn them into mini Albeto causing zones.

 

im not saying that would solve global warming but its an easy unexpensive thing to do. Rather than painting something black or red, we encourage white. I mean, ice and snow deflect sun because its white :shrug:

 

deflective particles may also help

That’s an interesting idea. At this point I’m up for anything :bradley:

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Luc
On 9/14/2019 at 2:51 PM, Economy said:

Im all for fixing the environment but big cuts will be required to pay for this not only in military but in other stuff too

 

also taxes need to go up

Good news is that you can't get a green economy by only incentivizing green alternatives with investments. You also need to disincentivize non-green options with added taxes. Meat, carbon-heavy imports, soy beans and palm oil imports, cars, gasoline, heating, electricity, industry pollution, plastic packaging, airplane tickets, they all need their own extra tax if you want to make the economy green. And it can work. The Netherlands, with one of the largest gas fields in the world, is completely going to stop drilling in the next few years. That's 12 billion in yearly government revenues (1,5% of GDP) that aren't coming back, and we're doing just fine.

 

 

And good news. I was getting suspicious of Warren when she said that you only need to fight 'the fossil industry', and any message about 'eating less cheese burgers' is 'exactly what they want'. That's a populist message that will do nothing to effect the mindset change that is necessary for a green economy: consumption of meat, milk products, gasoline, gas and non-green electricity need to approach zero for a carbon-neutral economy. Fighting big business isn't going to do much about consumption patterns. Taxing the living **** out of polluting companies is part of the solution, of course, but people are still going to want their meat on the platter every day if you don't raise awareness about the need for change.

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Economy
3 minutes ago, Luc said:

Good news is that you can't get a green economy by only incentivizing green alternatives with investments. You also need to disincentivize non-green options with added taxes. Meat, carbon-heavy imports, soy beans and palm oil imports, cars, gasoline, heating, electricity, industry pollution, plastic packaging, airplane tickets, they all need their own extra tax if you want to make the economy green.

 

 

And good news. I was getting suspicious of Warren when she said that you only need to fight 'the fossil industry', and any message about 'eating less cheese burgers' is 'exactly what they want'. That's a populist message that will do nothing to effect the mindset change that is necessary for a green economy: consumption of meat, milk products, gasoline, gas and non-green electricity need to approach zero for a carbon-neutral economy. Fighting big business isn't going to do much about consumption patterns. Taxing the living **** out of polluting companies is part of the solution, of course, but people are still going to want their meat on the platter every day if you don't raise awareness about the need for change.

Agreed! Thankyou!

 

someone on GGD scoulded me

so much the other day when i said we all need to do our part and he/she got so upset insisting it was the rich that had to pay for the changes because its their industry that causes the pollution and have all the money

 

im like yeah... but we are still participating in the problem as consumers

 

taxing the rich to pay for green projects like renewable energy may help but it wont go all the way. Out consumption habits from the middle class need to change also and that means we too have to get taxed to encourage changes in behaviour 

 

here in Canada the Carbon tax is relative to footprint. We dont tax only the fossil fuel industry. Each industry pays according to its emissions so the price of goods go up proportionally to how much they pollute which i think is a great idea because the more harmful something is, the more the cost goes up and the more its discouraged

 

so far gasolines share is about 4 cents a litre for example but the carbon tax is still only 40% of its total when it hits $50 a tone by 2022. Right now its $20 a tone so it will be 10 cents by 2022

 

mind u i think the Carbon tax only applies to CO2. They should also tax methaine which is even worse than CO2. The dairy industry is terrible for that

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Luc
1 minute ago, Economy said:

Agreed! Thankyou!

 

someone on GGD scoulded me

so much the other day when i said we all need to do our part and he/she got so upset insisting it was the rich that had to pay for the changes because its their industry that causes the pollution and have all the money

 

im like yeah... but we are still participating in the problem as consumers

 

taxing the rich to pay for green projects like renewable energy may help but it wont go all the way. Out consumption habits from the middle class need to change also and that means we too have to get taxed to encourage changes in behaviour 

 

here in Canada the Carbon tax is relative to footprint. We dont tax only the fossil fuel industry. Each industry pays according to its emissions so the price of goods go up proportionally to how much they pollute which i think is a great idea because the more harmful something is, the more the cost goes up and the more its discouraged

 

so far gasolines share is about 4 cents a litre for example but the carbon tax is still only 40% of its total when it hits $50 a tone by 2022. Right now its $20 a tone so it will be 10 cents by 2022

 

mind u i think the Carbon tax only applies to CO2. They should also tax methaine which is even worse than CO2. The dairy industry is terrible for that

Methane luckily goes out of the air after only 9 years.

 

But yeah, our consumption habits need to change. People who keep pointing at the 'system' as the bad part only and who forget about their own part in the 'system' are part of the problem. If it weren't for all the people who already changed their consumption habits (e.g. the 5% who are vegetarian, those who don't own a car, those who put solar on their roofs), we'd be in a much worse situation right now.

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Economy
10 minutes ago, Luc said:

Methane luckily goes out of the air after only 9 years.

 

But yeah, our consumption habits need to change. People who keep pointing at the 'system' as the bad part only and who forget about their own part in the 'system' are part of the problem. If it weren't for all the people who already changed their consumption habits (e.g. the 5% who are vegetarian, those who don't own a car, those who put solar on their roofs), we'd be in a much worse situation right now.

This. Its human activity and consumption patterns that are the problem

 

with Corporations and wealthy we see it more directly cause 1 powerful entity on their own has a bigger impact with their decisions than a single middle class human

 

but when u add it all up, we are all part of the problem and all part of the potential solution

 

im very good with recycling and reducing garbage waste. Im also very good at not leaving power running unnecessarily like leaving lights on etc

 

but i need to work on eating less meat and dairy, reducing my crazy long showers that i relax with, and i have a nasty habit of idling my car sometimes while texting before i start driving or when i finish

 

im only 30% of the way in changing my habits id say :selena:

 

the best im with is waste and garbage tho. I always say no to bags when i dont need them. If i forget my reusable bags, ill cary the items to my car by hand or with the cart if its too many. Cuz why use plastic?

 

also if i go to mcdonalds i alwas tell them not to give me a straw and i tell them not to give me the bag for the bourgers etc and then they look at me weird

 

im like i dont need a straw to drink from the cup and the bags are so unnecessary they just gonna make garbage in my car that then when i finally get around to cleaning my car (cuz im a slob :deadbanana:) go to waste facilities so whats the point???? 

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Born To Slay
2 hours ago, Economy said:

Well. As long as hes being honest thats good. I think its some of the ppl that dont get the full scope

 

but overall i like the plan

 

side note does bernie have any plans to tackle that horrible gas from green energy the SF6?

 

its some 23,000 times more potent than CO2 in causing greenhouse heating effect and lately some issues are being brought up that green energy wont be so green after all if we dont tackle the problem of SF6 leaks into the atmosphere

Not to my knowledge, I’m not sure nah of the candidates have addressed that since this is the first I’m hearing of this. 

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Economy
29 minutes ago, Born To Slay said:

Not to my knowledge, I’m not sure nah of the candidates have addressed that since this is the first I’m hearing of this. 

U havent heard of it?

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