Kamala Harris releases student loan debt forgiveness program

[NewUsername 11,793]

The problem is still the fact itself that people in the USA need to get loans just to be able to study 
THAT is the thing that needs to be changed, although I guess it's not easy to change it so drastically.

Still, in my country we pay about maximum 1100 dollars per year for college/university. And that's how it should be, education is a right and needed in society, it's not a privilege just for the elite...

[Othon 34,299]

14 minutes ago, rumours said:

While I am 100% against total student loan forgiveness and would favor this type of idea in theory, this is a horrendous metric by which people would need to qualify. 

Instead of randomly sad-ing my posts in retaliation for my earnest response to your opposition to liberating an entire generation dealing with trillions of dollars of cumulative debt, maybe you could attempt to justify why you think that young people should be forced to spend their entire lives attempting to pay back massive loans and the insane amount of interest they accrue that they took out to better themselves (after being told by our parents and grandparents that we had to go to college if we wanted to find a decent job), especially in the richest country on earth? 

Because all you've ever offered up to defend that hideous position in the past is the fact that you think we need to suffer for decades to learn some vaguely-defined "lesson" about responsibility. Why do you think we went to college in the first place? 

[Hybrid AT 78]

6 minutes ago, OG Gaga Stan said:

Instead of randomly sad-ing my posts in retaliation for my earnest response to your opposition to liberating an entire generation dealing with trillions of dollars of cumulative debt, maybe you could attempt to justify why you think that young people should be forced to spend their entire lives attempting to pay back massive loans and the insane amount of interest they accrue that they took out to better themselves (after being told by our parents and grandparents that we had to go to college if we wanted to find a decent job), especially in the richest country on earth? 

Because all you've ever offered up to defend that hideous position in the past is the fact that you think we need to suffer for decades to learn some vaguely-defined "lesson" about responsibility. Why do you think we went to college in the first place? 

It's funny you trying to call someone out for sad reacting to your posts when all that you do here on GGD all the time is the same (speaking from personal experience). Hypocrisy much? Small advice: stop doing it yourself. It's not cute.

[Hybrid AT 78]

Her policy doesn't make sense which is why it's getting ratioed badly on twitter   come on Kamala, make some sense gurl

[Othon 34,299]

7 minutes ago, HybridAT said:

It's funny you trying to call someone out for sad reacting to your posts when all that you do here on GGD all the time is the same (speaking from personal experience). Hypocrisy much? Small advice: stop doing it yourself. It's not cute.

I sad your posts because I disagree with them/find them ignorant? We don't have the "excuse me no" reaction anymore. How else am I going to register my distaste for your political hot takes in these threads? 

[rumours 45,521]

27 minutes ago, OG Gaga Stan said:

Instead of randomly sad-ing my posts in retaliation for my earnest response to your opposition to liberating an entire generation dealing with trillions of dollars of cumulative debt, maybe you could attempt to justify why you think that young people should be forced to spend their entire lives attempting to pay back massive loans and the insane amount of interest they accrue that they took out to better themselves (after being told by our parents and grandparents that we had to go to college if we wanted to find a decent job), especially in the richest country on earth? 

Because all you've ever offered up to defend that hideous position in the past is the fact that you think we need to suffer for decades to learn some vaguely-defined "lesson" about responsibility. Why do you think we went to college in the first place? 

Look, it’s not as if anyone is dealing with a game of completely imperfect information when making choices regarding college. I’m a student, have taken on debt, and have spent many hours working to make sure I graduate debt free (which has not been an easy task). If people made irrational choices given whatever constraints they knowingly face, that doesn’t make me feel sorry for them or feel as if the government needs to “liberate” them of the debt that was their own doing with nothing in return. I know we fundamentally disagree on this issue, but I believe a culture of accountability is important. You are an adult when you go to college, so you are fully able to take responsibility for the financial situation you put yourself in. 

 

Now in regards to my comment which you reacted to, I think the rationale of this sort of thing isn’t bad... it’s just Kamala managed to pick a ridiculous metric (esp considering the capital required to start a business, the % of small businesses which fail by year 2, etc.). I wouldn’t be mad though if the government proposed a program by which they’d forgive “x”% of student debt based on another metric like hours of community service, military service, etc. I wouldn’t be against loan forgiveness, provided there is a reasonable metric by which those in debt give back to their society and country through such a program.

[Whispering 18,865]

This is too narrow. It should be expanded to anyone (not just pell grant recipients) who does public service of some sort, to make any kind of dent.  

[Hybrid AT 78]

11 minutes ago, OG Gaga Stan said:

I sad your posts because I disagree with them/find them ignorant? We don't have the "excuse me no" reaction anymore. How else am I going to register my distaste for your political hot takes in these threads? 

Seriously? Even when you're presented with literal facts? Oh come on now, give me a break. 

I believe in facts and always accompany information with facts. Refuting with facts and receipts doesn't make one ignorant. Ignoring the truth surely makes seem one.

[Morphine Prince 109,755]

41 minutes ago, NewUsername said:

The problem is still the fact itself that people in the USA need to get loans just to be able to study 
THAT is the thing that needs to be changed, although I guess it's not easy to change it so drastically.

Still, in my country we pay about maximum 1100 dollars per year for college/university. And that's how it should be, education is a right and needed in society, it's not a privilege just for the elite...

$1,100 is approximately one class at a university in the US  

[Whispering 18,865]

35 minutes ago, NewUsername said:

The problem is still the fact itself that people in the USA need to get loans just to be able to study 
THAT is the thing that needs to be changed, although I guess it's not easy to change it so drastically.

Still, in my country we pay about maximum 1100 dollars per year for college/university. And that's how it should be, education is a right and needed in society, it's not a privilege just for the elite...

Not necessarily. There are scholarships and 17 states offer free community college. If you live in New York State, all public colleges are free! Maybe they will start a trend! 

[PartySick 173,421]

1 hour ago, OG Gaga Stan said:

I mean... it was a deliberate smear cooked up in 2016 that erases his supporters of color and his female supporters.  That's why I reacted so negatively. 

Ahh, I didn't know that  well I knew about people using it as an insult but not about the erasure thing. I don't use it as a term of endearment or as an insult. I just saw 2016 as the battle between the Hilbots and Bernie Bros turning into the Hilbots vs the Little Deplorables and have been using those terms since 

Even though I have serious doubts about Bernie's ability when it comes to being president there's no denying he is the liberal voice of today (which is why he'd be a fantastic vp to Warren) and his little Bernsters are to thank for that

[NewUsername 11,793]

22 minutes ago, Morphine Prince said:

$1,100 is approximately one class at a university in the US  

see? that's crazy  

20 minutes ago, Whispering said:

Not necessarily. There are scholarships and 17 states offer free community college. If you live in New York State, all public colleges are free! Maybe they will start a trend! 

Oh, that's good news  And how do the community colleges compare to those with a high inscription fees? Are there numbers about the quality etc? 

(I know you can't of course compare e.g. Oxford to 'a normal' university, but I mean that it would still not be fair and still a problem if for example the free colleges don't get any resources etc to being able to offer quality. Something I wouldn't be too shocked about if US government tried to have it like that, so that the elites can try to keep education elite )

[PartySick 173,421]

25 minutes ago, Whispering said:

Not necessarily. There are scholarships and 17 states offer free community college. If you live in New York State, all public colleges are free! Maybe they will start a trend! 

Please

Free community college, grants and scholarships to go to university. That should be our immediate goal.

Being a full time student here cost me $8,000 for a year, a Pell grant only covers $5,500 max here (I'm not sure if it's different elsewhere). As hard as I fought I couldn't afford to stay enrolled 

Now that I'm making a little money and have a few grand saved up I'm fighting again to get a Pell grant using my own taxes, not my dad's, so I can go back and get into the career path I love but the financial aid office is saying I only applied to get the grant then dropped out to keep the money and I'm like...puta, I spent every cent on the courses and hundreds of dollars worth of textbooks. I had nothing left, that's why I couldn't continue studying 

Sometimes it feels like no matter how badly you want to improve your life there's always something getting in the way of that. Like the system is set up for those of us who don't have a lot to stay where we are on the bottom rung of the ladder. Getting a president and senate that could get free college signed into law would be life changing for so many people.

[Othon 34,299]

8 minutes ago, rumours said:

Look, it’s not as if anyone is dealing with a game of completely imperfect information when making choices regarding college.

You make the decision to go to college when you're 17 or 18 years old, after growing up in a culture that stresses school rankings and Ivy League prestige. We condition students to aim high and then punish them for it.

To say that I was given inadequate guidance by my high school and college counselors about the dangers of student loan debt when I was a teenager would be a massive understatement. 

11 minutes ago, rumours said:

I’m a student, have taken on debt, and have spent many hours working to make sure I graduate debt free (which has not been an easy task). 

I don't know what job you worked through college that pays well enough to cover the tens of thousands of dollars you'd need to cover the average cost of tuition, housing, books, food, utilities, etc. without serious supplemental help from your parents, but it is nearly impossible to cover the cost of college with a job while in school. If you go to a high ranking university, aren't wealthy, or gifted a free-ride, it's nearly impossible to pay them back period. 80% of students work while in school (myself included) and the overall debt keeps accruing. Tuition costs keep rising while wages remains stagnant. Student loan sharks deliberately prey on the vulnerable. The playing field isn't level. 

We've created a system that shuffles students into a for-profit pipeline with rhetoric about the need to improve their lot in life and then shackles them to debt until they die. If you were born into a poorer family, you bear the largest burden. Racial stratification places the vast majority of that burden on black women. Not everyone has the opportunities you've been afforded. 

"I got mine, so the rest of you can choke" isn't a very compelling argument, nor is it a moral or decent one. 

26 minutes ago, rumours said:

If people made irrational choices given whatever constraints they knowingly face, that doesn’t make me feel sorry for them or feel as if the government needs to “liberate” them of the debt that was their own doing with nothing in return.

I don't even know where to start with this. The fact that you think that this student loan crisis is students' "own doing" betrays a lack of a basic understanding of the system we live in and the power dynamics at play within it. Students don't create the conditions in which the grow up. They try to adapt as best they can to what they've been burdened with. 

If you want a decent-paying job and don't want to live in economic instability, you have to go to college. College means debt for the vast, vast majority of college students. And debt is, therefore, that student's fault? After their environment essentially demands that they take it on? 

Many of the countries around the world with the least amount of systemic economic inequity and the highest rates of economic stability and overall standard of living provide for tuition-free colleges. We live in the richest country on earth. There's no excuse for what we're currently having to deal with.

28 minutes ago, rumours said:

I know we fundamentally disagree on this issue, but I believe a culture of accountability is important. You are an adult when you go to college, so you are fully able to take responsibility for the financial situation you put yourself in. 

This is right-wing "bootstraps" rhetoric that has been used to justify the exploitation of those in poverty from time immemorial. The word "accountability" implies wrongdoing. We're talking about a student choosing to educate themselves, gain a more comprehensive understanding of the world around them. A better life altogether. In what universe is that wrong? And in a world where several of the most successful nations understand that fact and provide for tuition-free college, what are we holding students accountable for? Being born here? Choosing to try to better themselves while lacking access to the opportunities that luckier students get to take advantage of?

What lesson are we supposed to be teaching these people? Social mobility is impossible? If you want to gain access to an opportunity to pull yourself or your family out of your situation (a situation we've all, collectively, allowed to exist), you have to become an indentured servant to the state?

With your approach, college becomes a luxury experienced by those with generational wealth, which furthers class and racial stratification. It facilitates the already-existing two-tiered system that benefits those born into wealth or stability and punishes those who aren't. 

I truly have absolutely no idea how anyone could find that perspective compelling.

[Whispering 18,865]

4 minutes ago, PartySick said:

Please

Free community college, grants and scholarships to go to university. That should be our immediate goal.

Being a full time student here cost me $8,000 for a year, a Pell grant only covers $5,500 max here (I'm not sure if it's different elsewhere). As hard as I fought I couldn't afford to stay enrolled 

Now that I'm making a little money and have a few grand saved up I'm fighting again to get a Pell grant using my own taxes, not my dad's, so I can go back and get into the career path I love but the financial aid office is saying I only applied to get the grant then dropped out to keep the money and I'm like...puta, I spent every cent on the courses and hundreds of dollars worth of textbooks. I had nothing left, that's why I couldn't continue studying 

Sometimes it feels like no matter how badly you want to improve your life there's always something getting in the way of that. Like the system is set up for those of us who don't have a lot to stay where we are on the bottom rung of the ladder. Getting a president and senate that could get free college signed into law would be life changing for so many people.

Absolutely! At the very least, offer the first two years free, then offer major scholarships to the most deserving and most needy. 

We also need to understand how difficult it is for someone to pay back loans that have little to no help coming from their family. 

This is a multi-layered issue with options for solutions and relief, especially to those who are in lower income brackets. Something could be done about that in all fifty states immediately!