Beyoncé

[Didymus 34,379]

Some people here denying there's Bey hate on this forum

I've been here for years. A large number of GGD members does regularly (to the point of it being a staple feature of this forum) hate on Beyoncé as a person and an artist and it only sometimes has to do with the behavior of her admittedly annoying stans

I've seen hundreds of comments over the years about how Beyoncé is not an artist, has only mediocre vocals, automatically gets acclaim because she's black, has a horrible personality, is "dumb" and has no speaking skills, only makes "boring" songs since Beyoncé,... Like, it's downright disgusting. And it's all jealousy.

[Didymus 34,379]

On 7/24/2019 at 12:15 AM, StrawberryBlond said:

There is no fan involvement in these cases, this is Beyonce aggressively marketing herself as a queen and the best out there right now. It would be fine if she was a rapper as bragging goes with the territory there but she's always been a RnB/pop mix so she doesn't have that as an excuse. She says these grandoise lines with no qualms at all and it's amazing how she's tricked the world into believing she's humble through all this. We call her a queen because she tells us to. This is why so many criticize her - we want artists to entertain us, not to manipulate us. 

Have you ever considered that she's smply trying to send a message of empowerment through those lyrics? As in: feel like a mother****ing queen yourself when you listen to this song?

Isn't Beyoncé empowerment a universally attested fact of nature? Can anyone listen to Crazy in Love, Run the World (Girls), Flawless, I Been On ,... without feeling like they're the sh-t themselves? That aggressive self-empowerment works in multiple ways, it also works in the direction of the listener.

I mean, sure, there's a contradiction between people listening to and watching Beyoncé to feel self-empowerment while we're glorifying her specifically at the same time. But that goes for almost every pop star in the game

The majority of the public is entertained by her and inspired by her work (which is not the same thing as her as a person, but it might be more important down the road), I don't think anyone feels particularly manipulated because who cares enough about her for that? I don't see casual fans talking about how humble she is lol. They're just bopping to her songs, recognizing her talent while simultaneously skipping the persona and chart obsession of stans or haters

[Lilmonzter 2,864]

I don't like people hating on Beyonce!

It's like someone kicking a puppy!

Now infuriating the beyhive, now some people do that cause it's fun and funny until it isn't! I mean stan wars are inevitable isn't! People lose reason! Even come for my Queen and I'd be holding a pitchfork and hunting you down!

Well I'm not proud of it!

[StrawberryBlond 14,872]

1 hour ago, Didymus said:

Have you ever considered that she's smply trying to send a message of empowerment through those lyrics? As in: feel like a mother****ing queen yourself when you listen to this song?

Isn't Beyoncé empowerment a universally attested fact of nature? Can anyone listen to Crazy in Love, Run the World (Girls), Flawless, I Been On ,... without feeling like they're the sh-t themselves? That aggressive self-empowerment works in multiple ways, it also works in the direction of the listener.

I mean, sure, there's a contradiction between people listening to and watching Beyoncé to feel self-empowerment while we're glorifying her specifically at the same time. But that goes for almost every pop star in the game

The majority of the public is entertained by her and inspired by her work (which is not the same thing as her as a person, but it might be more important down the road), I don't think anyone feels particularly manipulated because who cares enough about her for that? I don't see casual fans talking about how humble she is lol. They're just bopping to her songs, recognizing her talent while simultaneously skipping the persona and chart obsession of stans or haters

Of course that's how it could be interpreted and while I think there's more than a few rappers who maybe try to create empowerment in their listeners when they hear their music, I've never felt that way about Beyonce. Her songs are for herself and it just so happens that the public can relate to them. Even though they're so personalised (nowadays, anyway) that they couldn't be for anyone other than Beyonce. How Formation is seen as such an empowering song for black people is beyond me. Every part of it is personalised Beyonce ego stroking. When you sing it, you're praising her, not yourself...unless you had a father from Alabama, a mother from Louisiana, were born in Texas, wear Rocawear necklaces, eat at Red Lobster, etc. But I doubt it.

Well, no, I don't feel empowerment from those songs. At most, I can get something out of Flawless (and I can sing it with more credibility because I can sing it with confidence when I actually have no make up on, unlike Beyonce who sings "I woke up like this" with a full face of make up) but even then she had to personalise it by bringing up her mum, dad, sisters and husband (not all of us have those) and putting in that ridiculous moment of Girls Tyme losing to Skeleton Crew, which is an awful case of a big name picking on the little guy and the song could have been saved if it hadn't been for that moment of arrogance. On the other hand, give me a self-empowerment anthem from Gaga, Pink, hell, even Iggy Azalea and that can make me feel like the s**t. Because they don't think they're above their listeners and are really nice, humble people outside the studio.

But I have noticed her fans defending her personality many a time. In this very thread, there's accusations of "how do you know she's got a big ego?" and they're always pointing out what a philanthropist she is and how much she gives to the black community even though there's very little evidence of her actually caring about any of this stuff. If anything, she seems disconnected and distant from everything. This is the woman who read out her Grammy acceptance speech for her album from a flashcard. A very short speech which could easily have been memorised at that. This is someone who isn't truly into what they create or what they give to the world.

[Didymus 34,379]

15 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

Of course that's how it could be interpreted and while I think there's more than a few rappers who maybe try to create empowerment in their listeners when they hear their music, I've never felt that way about Beyonce. Her songs are for herself and it just so happens that the public can relate to them. Even though they're so personalised (nowadays, anyway) that they couldn't be for anyone other than Beyonce. How Formation is seen as such an empowering song for black people is beyond me. Every part of it is personalised Beyonce ego stroking. When you sing it, you're praising her, not yourself...unless you had a father from Alabama, a mother from Louisiana, were born in Texas, wear Rocawear necklaces, eat at Red Lobster, etc. But I doubt it.

I really disagree with that.

That's almost like saying it's impossible to relate to BTW if your mom (and you bring up parent references to criticize Flawless, remember?) didn't tell you you were a superstar while she was putting on your make-up and rolling your hair etc. She could've easily sang "you're beautiful in your way" etc. but she didn't and who cared? No one

It's just not that that important. People automatically take what they enjoy and apply it to themselves. Same with Beyoncé songs. Even I feel empowered listening to Formation and I know the song is miles away from being about me. But I don't care. That's the power of music. Just because you happen to lack a feeling of empowerment listening to her songs (or choose not to based on your personal opinion on the artist) doesn't mean others have that lack  

15 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

give me a self-empowerment anthem from Gaga, Pink, hell, even Iggy Azalea and that can make me feel like the s**t. Because they don't think they're above their listeners and are really nice, humble people outside the studio.

I'm still waiting for a good example of Bey positioning herself as superior to her listeners smh. She's a storyteller. I find your point of view really extreme and ill-fitting to the world of art in general. It's almost like expecting a director of a movie to have the actors say "thank you so much for paying to be here, we're really trying to set up a great show for you all, we're so grateful!" in the direction of the camera every 20 minutes so the audience can be reminded that the director doesn't feel superior to the audience because he happened to make the movie people are paying tickets for It's absurd. (And Beyoncé actually does thank her audience every night at her shows.)

I also never saw one incident where Beyoncé showed not to be humble outside the studio. You can mention me a couple of incidences where you were convinced she wasn't, but as of right now, it just seems like your personal disliking of Beyoncé is coloring all of your arguments in a really unobjective way.

15 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

But I have noticed her fans defending her personality many a time.

But again: I wasn't talking about her stans. Stan culture is deluded and devoid of reason by default. You can't base your thoughts on Beyoncé based on what her stans think.

15 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

This is the woman who read out her Grammy acceptance speech for her album from a flashcard. A very short speech which could easily have been memorised at that. This is someone who isn't truly into what they create or what they give to the world.

That feels like a very unfair connection to make. You have no way of knowing that. We can easily find examples of Gaga showing off that same lack of interest if we want to (purchasing finished instrumentals and singing over it, recording a song written completely by someone else on her personal family album, pretending she co-wrote a song about rape so she could win an Oscar, only donating an undisclosed portion of that same song's proceeds to an undisclosed organization, boycotting Russia's anti-LGBT+ policy but still accepting a million dollars from Azerbaijan's government, a country with a notoriously anti-LGBT+ policy,...).

That's digging for something negative, but it's not fair and definitely not objective The focus should always be on the work. Only stans and haters (sorry, that must be you, then) choose to set the work aside and focus on the personality. The public at large is not bothered and is just here to enjoy the quality of her stuff, and if that quality recedes, they'll move on. She's just one of many artists to listen to for 90% of her audience. Don't take it so seriously.

[ANTI WP 19,825]

11 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

This is the woman who read out her Grammy acceptance speech for her album from a flashcard. A very short speech which could easily have been memorised at that. This is someone who isn't truly into what they create or what they give to the world.

As a beyonce hater 

What's wrong with reading from the card ..she was pregnant at that time ... you know pregnant women should not be pressured.

We can hate beyonce but this is too much y'all 

Close this thread 

[StrawberryBlond 14,872]

6 hours ago, Didymus said:

I really disagree with that.

That's almost like saying it's impossible to relate to BTW if your mom (and you bring up parent references to criticize Flawless, remember?) didn't tell you you were a superstar while she was putting on your make-up and rolling your hair etc. She could've easily sang "you're beautiful in your way" etc. but she didn't and who cared? No one

It's just not that that important. People automatically take what they enjoy and apply it to themselves. Same with Beyoncé songs. Even I feel empowered listening to Formation and I know the song is miles away from being about me. But I don't care. That's the power of music. Just because you happen to lack a feeling of empowerment listening to her songs (or choose not to based on your personal opinion on the artist) doesn't mean others have that lack  

I'm still waiting for a good example of Bey positioning herself as superior to her listeners smh. She's a storyteller. I find your point of view really extreme and ill-fitting to the world of art in general. It's almost like expecting a director of a movie to have the actors say "thank you so much for paying to be here, we're really trying to set up a great show for you all, we're so grateful!" in the direction of the camera every 20 minutes so the audience can be reminded that the director doesn't feel superior to the audience because he happened to make the movie people are paying tickets for It's absurd. (And Beyoncé actually does thank her audience every night at her shows.)

I also never saw one incident where Beyoncé showed not to be humble outside the studio. You can mention me a couple of incidences where you were convinced she wasn't, but as of right now, it just seems like your personal disliking of Beyoncé is coloring all of your arguments in a really unobjective way.

But again: I wasn't talking about her stans. Stan culture is deluded and devoid of reason by default. You can't base your thoughts on Beyoncé based on what her stans think.

That feels like a very unfair connection to make. You have no way of knowing that. We can easily find examples of Gaga showing off that same lack of interest if we want to (purchasing finished instrumentals and singing over it, recording a song written completely by someone else on her personal family album, pretending she co-wrote a song about rape so she could win an Oscar, only donating an undisclosed portion of that same song's proceeds to an undisclosed organization, boycotting Russia's anti-LGBT+ policy but still accepting a million dollars from Azerbaijan's government, a country with a notoriously anti-LGBT+ policy,...).

That's digging for something negative, but it's not fair and definitely not objective The focus should always be on the work. Only stans and haters (sorry, that must be you, then) choose to set the work aside and focus on the personality. The public at large is not bothered and is just here to enjoy the quality of her stuff, and if that quality recedes, they'll move on. She's just one of many artists to listen to for 90% of her audience. Don't take it so seriously.

Gaga was truly just talking about herself when she said that line, though, it wasn't meant for anyone else. But Beyonce's entire song is about herself, that's what's off-putting. It's up to you what you find empowering for your standards but I'm just surprised that so many have Beyonce's songs do it for them. In a world where the most relatable, vague songs are what become hits, it's a wonder a super-personalised song does anything for the average Joe. Gaga's downfall started when her songs got too personal, after all.

Every artist thanks their fans every night of their shows, that's just standard procedure. But you will never see Beyonce going the extra mile for her fans like Gaga does, giving long-winded speeches about how much they inspire her and she loves them, inviting them onstage to sing with her, hugging them, spontaneously stage-diving onto them to the shock of her security team. Holding the mic down to a fan on the catwalk to sing into was about as big as fan engagement has ever got for Beyonce. Gaga has always been uncomfortable with any pronouncement from her fans that she is the queen of pop and has even explicitly said "I don't want to be your queen, I want to be your friend." Beyonce has never made any kind of acknowledge that being called Queen Bey makes her uncomfortable or how she doesn't want to be on that level (probably because that's what she does want us to call her). And Gaga has multiple times said that if all the money and fame went away tomorrow, as long as she had her fanbase, she'd be fine. When has Beyonce ever said anything like that? Now do you start to see what I mean about how she positions herself apart from her fans and operates above them? And let's not even get into how she treated her ex-DC bandmates and let herself take centre stage with no thought for them. And how she shut down an entire floor of a maternity ward to have Blue, preventing new parents from seeing their babies in ICU.

Gaga is head and shoulders above Beyonce when it comes to musical involvement and you know it. Gaga doesn't use songwriting camps and plays multiple instruments, that should be all the proof you need that she's a true artist. There's no point hunting for irrelevant little things, go for the big stuff. Beyonce's even done covers of songs and put herself on the credits because she considers her vocal style to be a change to the song that gives her credit. Luckily, she was rightly corrected for that as time went on and song booklets were amended.

I'm not setting the quality of the work aside, a bad song is a bad song regardless of who wrote it. But when you do know who wrote it and they don't wear it well, it makes it even worse. I always review Beyonce's work independently of her, it just happens that I'm not keen on the person behind the music.

6 hours ago, ANTI WP said:

As a beyonce hater 

What's wrong with reading from the card ..she was pregnant at that time ... you know pregnant women should not be pressured.

We can hate beyonce but this is too much y'all 

Close this thread 

Pregnant women can still think straight, a lot of them work through their pregnancy. That's possibly the weirdest excuse for reading from a card I've ever heard. Beyonce was performing that night, where she tipped right back in a chair and you're telling me her pregnancy was too much for her to vaguely paraphrase a quick, cliched acceptance speech from memory? Hardly "too much" of a criticism.

[lego 44,165]

Gaga has always been uncomfortable with any pronouncement from her fans that she is the queen of pop and has even explicitly said "I don't want to be your queen, I want to be your friend."

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Noir 17,365]

I really like Beyoncé but most of her diehard fans are insufferable. Little Monsters can relate 

[Magneto 13,436]

Why are we seeing fanbases as one unified entity again?

[Illuminati Freak 2,432]

Little monsters literally made death threats against many other fan bases and artists like Madonna herself and still do on social media when they don't like someone coming for Gaga and ya'll have the nerve to come for the Beehive???!! The HYPOCRISY of it all. And it's always the same  couple people posting these long dragged out essays trying to justify their dislike for Beyonce. It's really pathetic & kinda disturbing. Obsessed much?

 

[Gagaplayer315 14,074]

Just accept your flop and Go 

[Ghost Face 6,236]

On 7/23/2019 at 12:33 AM, Adarsh said:

People are just making fun of all the fanbases because  they treat their idol like God and criticise every other fan base. 

Fixed 

I mean, every fanbase has fans that showing that kind of behaviour. Gaga and Madonna for example also have a lot of fans who have lost their grip on reality and who can be really rude to anyone that critic their faves. 

[Didymus 34,379]

6 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

Gaga was truly just talking about herself when she said that line, though, it wasn't meant for anyone else. But Beyonce's entire song is about herself, that's what's off-putting.

At least half of the lyrics could apply to anyone though...

Spoiler

"I see it, I want it
I stunt, yellow bone it
I dream it, I work hard
I grind 'til I own it
I twirl on them haters

,..

I go hard, I go hard
Get what's mine, take what's mine
I'm a star, I'm a star
'Cause I slay

...

Okay ladies, now let's get in formation
Prove to me you got some coordination"

She even shouts to the audience during live performances: do you slay? That's how everyone who enjoys the song sees the song: as a self-empowerment song rather than a Beyoncé glorification song. So no, I don't think your point is valid here.

There's songs like Gaga's Speechless, Marry the Night, Bloody Mary, Heavy Metal Lover, Yoü and I, The Queen, Aura, Venus, Jewels N' Drugs, Donatella, Mary Jane Holland, Dope, Gypsy, Applause, Diamond Heart, Joanne, Sinner's Prayer, Grigio Girls,... that are 100% about herself and are almost impossible to relate to as an outsider in a straightforward way and I still relate to them in my own way and I think that's such a basic, common sense approach to enjoying music, it shouldn't even require explanation I'm still baffled you're even trying to create an argument in that direction, as if Beyoncé is doing something wrong by telling stories about herself and trying to empower others through them. She's not.

6 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

you will never see Beyonce going the extra mile for her fans like Gaga does

That's not true She has so many stories of how she surprised her fans. There's her well-known Walmart Christmas gift card surprise, there's her much discussed FaceTime call with terminally ill Ebony, she sang specially for the terminally ill Taylon as well as for Chelsea, who she planned to meet afterwards as well and whose family she famously gave 90 white roses with a handwritten note when she passed. Chelsea's mom was blown away by how Beyoncé kept in touch with them before and after Chelsea's death.

She's a pop star. She behaves like a professional and doesn't need to use slimy and exaggerated "I love my fans" drama to appear worth listening to. Beyoncé puts on an amazing show and gives people what they came for: excellent vocals, dancing and stage production. They don't come for a speech about how grateful Beyoncé is for them to be there So if her fans aren't interested in that kind of lame, unnecessary behavior, why should we judge her for not displaying it?

All of your "she hasn't literally said she doesn't want to be called a queen, so she must want to be called that way" is complete rubbish, sorry That's not building up a strong argument, that's just making very unnecessary comparisons that have almost no worth in terms of content. Just look up interviews with her dancers, do your research. Plenty of people have come forward to say Beyoncé is very humble and friendly behind the scenes and a joy to work with, no diva behavior whatsoever. So, again, you're missing the mark hardcore.

6 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

And let's not even get into how she treated her ex-DC bandmates and let herself take centre stage with no thought for them. And how she shut down an entire floor of a maternity ward to have Blue, preventing new parents from seeing their babies in ICU. 

Omg though Again, totally unfair. The actual DC members tell a different story so you can't possibly use that and try to sound clever... The ward rumor is just a rumor ffs, I can't believe you're using that against her

6 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

Gaga is head and shoulders above Beyonce when it comes to musical involvement and you know it. Gaga doesn't use songwriting camps and plays multiple instruments, that should be all the proof you need that she's a true artist. There's no point hunting for irrelevant little things, go for the big stuff.

Compared to someone like Grimes Gaga is just as "inauthentic" as Beyoncé tbh Gaga can easily do everything on her own based on her talent but she chooses to rely on a host of co-writers and co-producers and has no problem paying for fully finished instrumentals to sing over while pretending she did it on her own And then there's the now infamous TIHTY incident in which she gave herself a co-writing credit when she and Diane knew full well she only changed one sentence (if she even did that, as Diane's latest interview casts doubt even upon that). How does that not mirror your "Beyoncé gave herself a writing credit because of melody changes" accusation?

If Sia and almost every other person who worked with her says Beyoncé is heavily involved in her artistry and continuously brings to the table her own creative ideas, if Prince commended Beyoncé on her incredible musical knowledge and gifts, there's no doubt in my mind she's a true artist as well. There's no shame in relying on other artistic visionaires to filter through your own creative vision. Beyoncé does it, Gaga does it (heck, Gaga just took someone else's concept for her own Vegas show, scrapping her own original concept, how is that not enough for you?), every pop star does it. If Gaga was actually serious about her "I'll go back to singing in bars if I can't do what I want as an artist" she would've done it a long time ago already. But she's not that bothered about authenticity, that's the truth. And that's fine, she's a pop star ffs. But then don't expect Beyoncé to be some kind of saint

[Rio 5,088]

On 7/22/2019 at 11:25 PM, xcx said:

You shouldn’t hate on Beyoncé because of the behavior of her stans. I see a lot of you saying that she deserves to flop so she doesn’t have such a big ego, but how do you know if she has a big ego? You don’t know her, and she doesn’t do interviews so you wouldn’t have seen her bragging anywhere. You can’t blame her for her stans hyping her up. We do the same thing with Gaga, and all stans do the same thing with their faves. We always try and protect them and we always make them sound like they’re god. The fact that y’all keep hating on Beyoncé when she hasn’t done anything wrong is so weird. Considering the fact that Gaga likes Beyoncé and always preaches about online kindness, she’d be disgusted with what y’all are saying.

Sorry, I love Bey's music, but I do not like her overblown ego. No I do not know her, but she acts like she is the Second Coming of Christ and so do her fans. The lyrics on the Everything Is Love album confirmed that even further for me. Bragging about their expensive watches and equity, sorry but NAH. Bey ain't for me, but I respect the talent she does have, which is her vocals and performing. You couldn't get her to play an actual instrument, nor sit her at a typewriter and expect her to write a song.