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London mosque attack: Men assault Muslim worshipper with batten and hammer

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OMonster
Just now, Antichrist said:

did you read my post at all? i clearly said, and i quote:

''but then again obviously, this certain person that was assaulted might not have been like that.  do you understand what i'm trying to say? sorry if it's confusing, just trying to find common ground.''

if you people cant have a decent discussion without accusing someone for being a horrible person for having a different point of view and not even giving 2 cents to try & change that view, then i honestly don't know what to even say.. i clearly said i'm not out here to kill anyone at all, and that people that are slaughtered don't necessarily have the same views as i wrote about in my previous post.

People are afraid to have open and varied conversation about politics, religion and culture. 

I understand your point and know you are not a racist. Don't listen to people who are chained to political correctness, and won't explore the debate beyond any sanctimonious angle. 

OT: the attacks are abhorrent and a disgrace to society. The blood is on the hands of the governments and has been for a very, very long time. Left or right, the system is failing to protect it's society - and at the root of that is a conversation that people are too scared to have. And that is why, ultimately, innocent people will continue to die.

subtext / fantasy
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lego
Just now, Antichrist said:

did you read my post at all? i clearly said, and i quote:

''but then again obviously, this certain person that was assaulted might not have been like that.  do you understand what i'm trying to say? sorry if it's confusing, just trying to find common ground.''

if you people cant have a decent discussion without accusing someone for being a horrible person for having a different point of view and not even giving 2 cents to try & change that view, then i honestly don't know what to even say.. i clearly said i'm not out here to kill anyone at all, and that people that are slaughtered don't necessarily have the same views as i wrote about in my previous post.

 

 

but do you realize it’s insensitive to start this kind of conversation here, in this topic, when someone is attacked for looking and praying differently than majority? 

It’s like, when synagogue was attacked last year and someone would come with “I don’t mean to be off topic, but did you know what Torah and Talmud says about non-Jews and why should we support such religion?” These unarmed people were attacked and it’s not the time to question whether they had problematic views and beliefs when they were in their place of worship minding their own business, not harming anyone. 

 

Do you understand now? 

It's not easy love, but you've got friends you can trust
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ReginaGeorge
12 minutes ago, WarriorPhoenix said:

Tell that to a majority of the other Muslims

I respect you so much for being able to view both opinions, however religion is one-sided in nature and is a simple method of indoctrination, therefore many Muslims will believe what their Imam says

Majority of muslims only believe in Qur’an like myself (yes I’m muslim woman) and everything said after that is not real Islam. You are talking about national laws of some arabic country and you are confusing that with my religion. Education is important when you talk about those topics. Sharia law is not muslim law, it’s national law that was made by man and everyone who knows anything about Islam knows that man can’t change or decide for muslims. Our belief is based on (and ONLY on) Qur’an. Killing someone for ANY reason besides protecting yourself is the biggest sin. Enough said for those who have brain. 

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Morphine Prince
2 minutes ago, OMonster said:

People are afraid to have open and varied conversation about politics, religion and culture. 

I don't think anyone here is afraid of that tbh. 

Your silence is my favorite sound
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lego
1 minute ago, OMonster said:

People are afraid to have open and varied conversation about politics, religion and culture. 

I understand your point and know you are not a racist. Don't listen to people who are chained to political correctness, and won't explore the debate beyond any sanctimonious angle. 

 

This is simply not true, but go off as some say.

There is a time and place for everything, it’s curious how topics where muslims are attacked are often hijacked and turned to basically blaming the victim. I’ve never seen it in other cases. 

It's not easy love, but you've got friends you can trust

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ReginaGeorge
6 minutes ago, OMonster said:

People are afraid to have open and varied conversation about politics, religion and culture. 

I understand your point and know you are not a racist. Don't listen to people who are chained to political correctness, and won't explore the debate beyond any sanctimonious angle. 

OT: the attacks are abhorrent and a disgrace to society. The blood is on the hands of the governments and has been for a very, very long time. Left or right, the system is failing to protect it's society - and at the root of that is a conversation that people are too scared to have. And that is why, ultimately, innocent people will continue to die.

No one is afraid. Why would I be? I’m proud of my religion. 

This is just not the place for this king of thing. Have respect and if you want to discuss this and if you are not afraid then make another thread. This one is not for that. Thank you. 

Edited by ReginaGeorge

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Morphine Prince

If anyone wants to discuss religion etc. in a civil manner you should open a separate thread about it (just a suggestion). 

I think hijacking this thread can come off as insensitive since it's about an actual attack where people were hurt. 

People here are open to having discussion all the time. 

Your silence is my favorite sound

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Antichrist
10 minutes ago, lego said:

 

 

but do you realize it’s insensitive to start this kind of conversation here, in this topic, when someone is attacked for looking and praying differently than majority? 

It’s like, when synagogue was attacked last year and someone would come with “I don’t mean to be off topic, but did you know what Torah and Talmud says about non-Jews and why should we support such religion?” These unarmed people were attacked and it’s not the time to question whether they had problematic views and beliefs when they were in their place of worship minding their own business, not harming anyone. 

 

Do you understand now? 

i understand, thank you, please if you come across people that do have a view like me or a different one than yours, try to explain it like that.

 

Edited by Antichrist

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Antichrist
Just now, Morphine Prince said:

If anyone wants to discuss religion etc. in a civil manner you should open a separate thread about it (just a suggestion). 

I think hijacking this thread can come off as insensitive since it's about an actual attack where people were hurt. 

People here are open to having discussion all the time. 

okay, you're right.

 

i apologize if i came across as insensitive, but please, for further notice, don't attack people, take into consideration that everyone is different, has different views, and just because they're that, doesn't mean they're out to get you or your religion. explain, talk about it, and that's that. if we're gonna be here to attack people that have a different point of view, what good are we actually doing?

 

and once again, i apologize. 

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Morphine Prince
1 minute ago, Antichrist said:

okay, you're right.

 

i apologize if i came across as insensitive, but please, for further notice, don't attack people, take into consideration that everyone is different, has different views, and just because they're that, doesn't mean they're out to get you or your religion. explain, talk about it, and that's that. if we're gonna be here to attack people that have a different point of view, what good are we actually doing?

 

and once again, i apologize. 

I don't think I attacked you, I was only asking questions. Either way, I didn't mean it to sound hostile. These are just sensitive subjects. 

Your silence is my favorite sound
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OMonster
47 minutes ago, Morphine Prince said:

I don't think anyone here is afraid of that tbh. 

46 minutes ago, lego said:

 

This is simply not true, but go off as some say.

There is a time and place for everything, it’s curious how topics where muslims are attacked are often hijacked and turned to basically blaming the victim. I’ve never seen it in other cases. 

44 minutes ago, ReginaGeorge said:

No one is afraid. Why would I be? I’m proud of my religion. 

This is just not the place for this king of thing. Have respect and if you want to discuss this and if you are not afraid then make another thread. This one is not for that. Thank you. 

Listen, I'm not against any single view on this thread. Each of you have contributed something interesting and worthwhile to this debate. I'm not 'going off' at any of you or anyone else. I am simply highlighting how you guys, for whatever reason, appear to be against expanding your view on an issue that is plaguing and destroying our society. 

Beyond your own opinions, there are posters in here who are bringing to the table the questions that many people are, very reasonably, asking today. Why do we have terrorism? What is it's relationship to Islam? And how does religion, or any belief-system, function in parallel to opposition? And to label these questions as insensitive, racist or xenophobic is unhelpful... and far from the tolerance that you preach. 

Also, this is the thread for the discussion of terrorism. A thread for empty prayers and best wishes isn't all that the debate of extremism has to be reduced to.  People have died today - lives have been lost and families have been destroyed. Let's mourn for those people, and let's talk about their deaths. Why did these people die? And how can we stop more politically-motivated deaths in the future?  At the root of that discussion is  the ideologies that underpin modern terrorism - Islam and white supremacy. And to dismiss that conversation, or to reduce it to 'XYZ is good, and XYZ is bad', would be a grave injustice to the victims of terrorism. 

 

 

 

 

subtext / fantasy

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ReginaGeorge
1 hour ago, OMonster said:

Listen, I'm not against any single view on this thread. Each of you have contributed something interesting and worthwhile to this debate. I'm not 'going off' at any of you or anyone else. I am simply highlighting how you guys, for whatever reason, appear to be against expanding your view on an issue that is plaguing and destroying our society. 

Beyond your own opinions, there are posters in here who are bringing to the table the questions that many people are, very reasonably, asking today. Why do we have terrorism? What is it's relationship to Islam? And how does religion, or any belief-system, function in parallel to opposition? And to label these questions as insensitive, racist or xenophobic is unhelpful... and far from the tolerance that you preach. 

Also, this is the thread for the discussion of terrorism. A thread for empty prayers and best wishes isn't all that the debate of extremism has to be reduced to.  People have died today - lives have been lost and families have been destroyed. Let's mourn for those people, and let's talk about their deaths. Why did these people die? And how can we stop more politically-motivated deaths in the future?  At the root of that discussion is  the ideologies that underpin modern terrorism - Islam and white supremacy. And to dismiss that conversation, or to reduce it to 'XYZ is good, and XYZ is bad', would be a grave injustice to the victims of terrorism. 

 

 

 

 

I’m stunned by the fact that some of you even when muslims are victims find a way to link Islam with terrorism and to bash my religion. This is done by white man who is not muslim and some of you AGAIN find a way to ask “why would people belive in Islam?”... Sorry but you are being hateful and ignorant. I won’t be quoting you anymore because I honestly can’t be polite enough even tho I try hard. Also it’s clear to me that hating Islam is allowed on this website and that it’s something that is not punishable. God forbid this kind of questions you ask me and everyone else being asked in a thread where person of other religion is the victim. 

Edited by ReginaGeorge
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OMonster
7 hours ago, ReginaGeorge said:

I’m stunned by the fact that some of you even when muslims are victims find a way to link Islam with terrorism and to bash my religion. This is done by white man who is not muslim and some of you AGAIN find a way to ask “why would people belive in Islam?”... Sorry but you are being hateful and ignorant. I won’t be quoting you anymore because I honestly can’t be polite enough even tho I try hard. Also it’s clear to me that hating Islam is allowed on this website and that it’s something that is not punishable. God forbid this kind of questions you ask me and everyone else being asked in a thread where person of other religion is the victim. 

That’s a really bizarre interpretation of my post. I never once asked why do people support Islam, and I never once said that Islam is responsible for what happened in NZ. In fact, I called out white supremacy and I called out Islamic extremism - surely, we share common ground on that? 

To deny there’s a link between Islam and terrorism is a bit tenuous. The vast majority of Muslims, like yourself, are innocent and peace-keeping. There is nothing ‘wrong’ with you or your religion - but there is something, clearly, very wrong with how this religion can be interpreted, and how that interpretation is having a wider effect on society. And this is a claim about Islamic extremism - not you. 

Now, without question, associating terrosim to a group of innocent people (Muslims) is wrong... and killing those people for that association is abhorrent and unthinkable. But to, again, deny that Islam doesn’t have a direct link to what happened in NZ would be unhelpful. Of course it does. There’s a reason (a sick and twisted one) as to why the victims of this attack were Muslims. Just as there is a reason why white people have been killed in politically-motivated acts, too. We might not agree with these reasons, but there are reasons. And these reasons /have/ to be explored without fear of being branded a bigot. 

I respect your belief. I enjoy reading your posts on this site. But, come on... let’s not take a discussion on terrorism (which in modern times /is/ linked to Islam) as a personal insult because you’re a Muslim. That would be the same as me being offended by people calling out the white man who carried out this atrocity. 

I realise you probably won’t respond to this post (which is a shame, because I’m all for open conversation) - but if you ever want to chat more privately, feel free to drop me a message and I’d be happy to help clarify my view :) 

subtext / fantasy
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Taide

And of course cases like this will fuel the radical Islamic terrorist so they can justify their action as a revenge and sooner or later we'll have regular attacks from both sides.  :saladga: 

Everyone should be free to believe in what ever they want without of fear of death. White man is the #1 terrorist in the world.

Edited by Taide

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Melech
25 minutes ago, Taide said:

White man is the #1 terrorist in the world.

Let’s not. Radicalism is the #1 terrorist in the world. Stop generalizing people. 

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