The contradiction of 'Born This Way'

[Didymus 32,745]

Well, I mean... there are a lot of gay people who still are Christians. Likewise a lot of women, and I'm sure they don't agree with everything the Bible says about them either

Believers just pick and choose what they want to accept as really universally valid from the Bible. Segments they don't like they'll either ignore or pass off as simply a product of the time that corrupted the "true message".

It's very common nowadays to say "God", "the universe", "energy", "something" in the same sentence. Gaga has already gone on record to say that while she believes in God, Catholicism can be very limited and closed-minded in its perception of things.

I believe that with "I'm beautiful in my way 'cause God makes no mistakes" means something like "I'm a unique creation, whether it's of God, a purposeful universe or just blind matter, and that makes me beautiful and worthy of respect automatically".

You also shouldn't forget that Gaga waved away similar questions in interviews and said that what "born this way" actually meant that she was born to transform. That's what she is, that's what is her beauty. Constant transformation. That stands in stark contrast to the rather static gay, lesbian, etc. labels she sums up in the song.

[NIGHTCRAWLER 6,985]

2 hours ago, Didymus said:

Well, I mean... there are a lot of gay people who still are Christians. Likewise a lot of women, and I'm sure they don't agree with everything the Bible says about them either

Believers just pick and choose what they want to accept as really universally valid from the Bible. Segments they don't like they'll either ignore or pass off as simply a product of the time that corrupted the "true message".

It's very common nowadays to say "God", "the universe", "energy", "something" in the same sentence. Gaga has already gone on record to say that while she believes in God, Catholicism can be very limited and closed-minded in its perception of things.

I believe that with "I'm beautiful in my way 'cause God makes no mistakes" means something like "I'm a unique creation, whether it's of God, a purposeful universe or just blind matter, and that makes me beautiful and worthy of respect automatically".

You also shouldn't forget that Gaga waved away similar questions in interviews and said that what "born this way" actually meant that she was born to transform. That's what she is, that's what is her beauty. Constant transformation. That stands in stark contrast to the rather static gay, lesbian, etc. labels she sums up in the song.

thank you for this. What I was criticizing earlier is that, I know that some Christians choose what they think is good in the Bible and ignore what they don't agree but the purpose of the debate was to say that if this holy book is your proof that a God exist, you should take it as a whole. Cause if you only choose some parts, it's nothing more than any other book you know what I mean? Think about it like laws (I've said earlier that the Bible was made to keep a social order bc there weren't laws back then), you can't choose which laws you follow and which one you ignore you know? And the fact that the Bible does not evolve make it irrelevant nowadays so believers have to make it evolve in the interpretation. The thing is that a population evolves and has to evolve. This is part of our nature so from the start I don't know how did someone consider that it was convenient to make a timeless code. But I can tell you that a timeless code can never ever ever work, neither on Mars or any other planet or any other species. That's why I can tell that as time goes, religion will recede more and more from the Bible.

But I know this is going deep and this doesn't represent the reality but my idea was really to think about it beyond all of this, just to meditate and because I love philosophy you know. I've understood that there are many different types of believers and they interpret religion in different ways and I'm okay with that as long as it helps them to find their peace. I wasn't dragging anyone just pushing the reflection further

Thank you for being part of the debate !! 

[Thomas P 18,377]

I’m catholic and whole heartedly believe in god. I believe he makes no mistakes, and if I’m gay, then he made me that way and I’m his child and he loves me for it. 

Just cause the bible (some men who passed down scriptures and all had different interpretations of everything) says something doesn’t mean god hates me. 

[LibraOctober98 3,456]

4 hours ago, NIGHTCRAWLER said:

that's what you think but I can't even tell you how many times I heard religious people that homosexuality was a choice, and a wrong choice (probably the second most explanation after "they are sick, they need a therapy")

Ok then those people are not in line with church doctrine and should be ignored. Your best argument against those people is "go read the catechism then come talk to me"

[Joshie S 5,488]

I think every individual has their own personal relationships with 'God'. This means that you don't have to agree with everything written in the Bible to be faithful.

If that's the case, then why does Gaga swear? Why does Gaga create art while being naked? 

She, like everyone else has their own relationships that are different person to person.

[TMM90 2,797]

She’s contradicting the song with epione.

[SpookyKid 15,079]

26 minutes ago, TMM90 said:

She’s contradicting the song with epione.

No, she would be contradicting it if she changed / got fillers because it's a beauty standart, she does it for herself

[Meruk Holland 2,000]

22 hours ago, NIGHTCRAWLER said:

I agree sometimes I feel like it's a trend to believe in God but everybody has different opinions of what God is so it just ends up having millions different Gods ... hard to believe that one of them is real 

I haven't gotten through this entire thread, but this response really tickled me. You have no idea how true the idea of "its trendy to believe in God" is throughout history, just look at the Inquisition. 

As for why so many people believe in a different God even though everyone calls it the same thing, well. Lets say there was an all-powerful being that interacted with mortals eons ago, people can use that to give themselves some real clout. They wouldn't have even had to have been present and they can say whatever they want. "God said homosex was an abomination? Why argue with that? He said his source is all-powerful! I don't want to get smote."

The truth is that if there are any deities mucking about, they're largely spectators. And in fact, any beliefs we have about them would (and probably do) disappoint them. Much like we probably disappoint Gaga all the time. Sure some of the beliefs could be true, but unless you have a personal relation with the god (or celebrity) in person, you can't be certain.

My belief is, if the God of the Bible is real, he probably never spoke a word in reality. Wouldn't matter if he had, the authors of the Bible would write whatever they wanted to push their own agenda.

[TMM90 2,797]

30 minutes ago, SpookyKid said:

No, she would be contradicting it if she changed / got fillers because it's a beauty standart, she does it for herself

still not “Born This Way”

[Fish 6,086]

Is this a real question? Why do you take everything in such a literal way?

You're wrongly assuming the Bible is a coherent body of rules. And also wrongly assuming the Bible condemns homosexuality. It really isn't that clear.

I think you're not that dumb, just wanted to stir **** lol

 

 

[NIGHTCRAWLER 6,985]

18 minutes ago, Meruk Holland said:

I haven't gotten through this entire thread, but this response really tickled me. You have no idea how true the idea of "its trendy to believe in God" is throughout history, just look at the Inquisition. 

As for why so many people believe in a different God even though everyone calls it the same thing, well. Lets say there was an all-powerful being that interacted with mortals eons ago, people can use that to give themselves some real clout. They wouldn't have even had to have been present and they can say whatever they want. "God said homosex was an abomination? Why argue with that? He said his source is all-powerful! I don't want to get smote."

The truth is that if there are any deities mucking about, they're largely spectators. And in fact, any beliefs we have about them would (and probably do) disappoint them. Much like we probably disappoint Gaga all the time. Sure some of the beliefs could be true, but unless you have a personal relation with the god (or celebrity) in person, you can't be certain.

My belief is, if the God of the Bible is real, he probably never spoke a word in reality. Wouldn't matter if he had, the authors of the Bible would write whatever they wanted to push their own agenda.

yeah I entirely agree !! thank you !

[NIGHTCRAWLER 6,985]

6 minutes ago, Fish said:

Is this a real question? Why do you take everything in such a literal way?

You're wrongly assuming the Bible is a coherent body of rules. And also wrongly assuming the Bible condemns homosexuality. It really isn't that clear.

I think you're not that dumb, just wanted to stir **** lol

 

 

because I wanted to debate on this very interesting question even though it wasn't that deep. The purpose is to go beyond and look further (and nevermind if it's not what Gaga thought when she was writing) so we can all learn things from each other. No shade at all but I really think that some people here are not mature enough to go into this kind of debate. It's not about who's right and it's not even about if God exists or no, it's about philosophizing on the concept of God and the Bible without necessarily come to a conclusion but just because thinking makes you literate and open-minded

[Fish 6,086]

3 minutes ago, NIGHTCRAWLER said:

because I wanted to debate on this very interesting question even though it wasn't that deep. The purpose is to go beyond and look further (and nevermind if it's not what Gaga thought when she was writing) so we can all learn things from each other. No shade at all but I really think that some people here are not mature enough to go into this kind of debate. It's not about who's right and it's not even about if God exists or no, it's about philosophizing on the concept of God and the Bible without necessarily come to a conclusion but just because thinking makes you literate and open-minded

There is no debate to have. just look at the responses you got, I mean. You're asking the wrong questions. Some people bothered to elaborate on stuff you did not raise, and now you're trying to imply that it was your intention, when what you're asking in your thread is just not relevant.

 

 

[giskardsb 12,565]

13 hours ago, Judas Society said:

The root of all the arguments here is due to the fact the religion has been ambiguous and contradictory after centuries of reintepretation from different cultural values set by different generations. For example, back then, women were supposed to be quiet and cover their heads during service, which was derived from a certain part of the Bible and was used by our ancestors to justify keeping women inferior in the world of men. So at the end of the day, nobody really knows what to believe anymore because humans twist and turn the Bible and use it to their convenience and advantage.

Christians arn't usually very happy when I refer to "Paul the Apostle" as "Paul the Misogynist" instead LOL.

[ryanripley 86,575]

26 minutes ago, TMM90 said:

still not “Born This Way”

we weren't born wearing make up so  

plus BTW is more about who you think is the real you, even it means altering your body. do trans people contradict born this way cus they were born the wrong gender?